Trail Establishment?

[kr8r.tom]

never said they did nothing, said wish they would do more. ATVing in minnesota is decreasing as far as opportunities not expanding. if they are doing as much as you claim what are the 100% results? 100% little to nothing. they support alot of money to w. virginia and utahs trail systems.

[Dave S]

Maybe I'm wrong, but why should we stand back and wait for the mfgr's to give us the hand outs? They're already doling out thousands of dollars every year as is Yamaha, Suzuki, Honda and Kawasaki.

If more people would simply get involved as well as adhere to the laws, we wouldn't have the issues we have now.

There's over 260K registered ATVs in MN. Would we have more trails if even half of those people would get involved? You bet we would.

[kr8r.tom]

getting a trail system started at the grassroots level is the hardest step. getting industry behind the peoples efforts and seeing results gets more people on board. its unfortunate but it takes money and a strong voice(lawyers)to get legislators to listen(take serious) on behalf of the people. minnesota has two companies i feel could do more, i don't see either of their names in the paper defending ATVing or helping any atv groups to a big extent in minnesota, but i have seen their names displayed at the hatfield mccoy trails.

[Roofer]

Maybe I'm wrong, but why should we stand back and wait for the mfgr's to give us the hand outs? They're already doling out thousands of dollars every year as is Yamaha, Suzuki, Honda and Kawasaki.

If more people would simply get involved as well as adhere to the laws, we wouldn't have the issues we have now.

There's over 260K registered ATVs in MN. Would we have more trails if even half of those people would get involved? You bet we would.

Sorry LEP, but I know exactly why people are not involved. Too many rules, too many things against us. It is simply easier to not be involved.

The rules need to be simpler and there needs to be more trails. I don't see a way around it.

I'm open to thoughts on this, but I just don't see any other way. Maybe that's why this is moving so slowly in MN.

[Big Dave2]

Originally Posted By: LEP7MM

Maybe I'm wrong, but why should we stand back and wait for the mfgr's to give us the hand outs? They're already doling out thousands of dollars every year as is Yamaha, Suzuki, Honda and Kawasaki.

If more people would simply get involved as well as adhere to the laws, we wouldn't have the issues we have now.

There's over 260K registered ATVs in MN. Would we have more trails if even half of those people would get involved? You bet we would.

Sorry LEP, but I know exactly why people are not involved. Too many rules, too many things against us. It is simply easier to not be involved.

The rules need to be simpler and there needs to be more trails. I don't see a way around it.

I'm open to thoughts on this, but I just don't see any other way. Maybe that's why this is moving so slowly in MN.

Roofer,

The only way we will achieve these things that you state is to do exactly as Dave (Lep7mm) says and get involved. If you want laws changed that is how it happens.

Everyone with an ATV who enjoys riding trails, and would like to see more trails should not only be a member of ATVAM but a local club as well. If you can not find a local club in your general area then try starting your own.

We can not expect government to help us if we don't even want to help ourselves.

[Roofer]

Yep, I'm a member of ATVAM and the BRC. I hope things are brighter in the future, but it looks gloom to me. I have seen more rules set in front of us in the last few years, I can hardly believe it.

[Roofer]

Most of the trails right now are closed.....I don't understand why.

And this snowmobile thing really has me upset. The state forests is all that we have, and they take that away from us too when the riding is the best, IMO, and has the least amount of impact on the trails.

[Dave S]

We definitely do need more pressure to get things changed for the better.

One thing to maybe consider is in the winter time with deeper snow, as Roofer mentioned can be the best riding. But the deeper snow will also keep people "on trail" in a sense.

The best thing that we can do is to contact our Distrcit Rep's for ATVAM and our local legislators and tell them, IN A DIPLOMATIC MANNER, what it is we desire.

Again, it boils down to personal involvement.

[Roofer]

I wasn't saying anyone is wrong. You guys are exactly right. I was just thinking out loud again.

[kr8r.tom]

[PoorWordUsage] don't stink types and your a lesser person than me because i have $500 hiking shoes with matching smokey the bear outfit types who happen to be lawyer types. who happen to know what hoops to go through, papers and petitions to file to stop the lesser motorheads from driving on their ecosystem.

just having 10,000 names on a piece of paper saying "i want a trail" isn't going to get you a trail. money and representation (lawyers) is the best chance to get a trail system. it's the "system" that weeds out the bad apples from riding in the wrong places and upsetting winnie the pooh. this is where the industry should be supporting the people who buy their product. i paid $8400 for mine. 260,000 registered atv's is alot of money in their pockets they should give back by helping out.

[kr8r.tom]

the first half of my post above turned up missing, i don't know where it went.

[Dave S]

tell them, IN A DIPLOMATIC MANNER, what it is we desire.

[Hammer Handle]

I own land with a large snowmobile trail going through the woods.

As a land owner, we get absolutely nothing to let thist trail go through our land. Oh, I guess we get it mowed in the Fall...but that is it.

The reason we allow snowmobiles is for we do not use the land in the winter (much). In the summer...it is different. We camp, hunt, etc and like the peace and quiet.

I have no problem with allowing ATVs to use the trail in the winter...however...if they don't follow the rules or damage the land...the deal is off.

Last summer I threatened to close the snowmobile trail for people were going off the trail and killed about 20 pines I planted by hand. They responded by marking the trail better...and everything has been going good so far this year...so the trail will remain.

Also, a lot of the trails run right straight through some farmland...which is not used in the winter.

And, another note...all ditches are not legal to drive in. A public road goes through my land, and it is illegal to drive any vehicle or hunt in the ditch. I didn't even know this, until the county informed me a few years ago.

I hope ATV uses find places to ride. But, there are a LOT of bad apples out there (not just a few). I run into quite a few every year.

[Roofer]

I wonder if atv's are required to be on the road in that situation???

[Hammer Handle]

I don't know.

I would assume they can't drive there at all.

But how would you know?

Most (including me at one time) think the ditches are legal on all public roads, but they are not.

I wish we could find a way to open more trails. They tried to set one up in our county a few years ago along an old railroad path...and the story is the ATVers complained for that was not good enough for they wanted to mud. So, it was made into a bike/walking path instead.

If it is all about the mudding, paths will be few and far between. The "leave no trace" way of entering and leaving places is getting more and more popular. I, myself, bought a three-wheeler years ago...and had it for many years. I never bought another for I could see the damage I was doing to my own land...and I hardly "mudded" at all.

Also, even areas that hold little or no water 80% of the year can be a wetland...and can't be touched hardly at all...even on your property. I found that out when I wanted to EXPAND a dry wetland on my land. I did it, but what a pain in the ____.

[Roofer]

You are right. You can't fill in wetland without provision, but you can cross wetland to access other parts of your property.

Even footsteps will leave their mark if traveled enough. Example: a makeshift baseball field or a walking path that is not paved. The trails that are made and designated now seemed to be lined with rock to prevent erosion, but there will always be a noticeable "pathway".

The only way I can see mudding to be legal, is if you make your own wetland, but I could be wrong. Once the cattails take hold, it would probably be off limits, even though it wouldn't even be there unless we made it.

On our property, we were allowed to make a pond, but they had to make sure we did not fill in any other areas. Wierd huh??? We have 15,000 lakes and thousands of swamps.....you can make more wetland, but cannot fill any in, plus you aren't allowed to cross any. Sounds like more for the animals than for us, and we are at the top of the food chain.