ATV won't start

[ac777]

Wow, A lot of good posts here, and good information. It worked for me to have the atv jumped by my truck while running,and would most likely work for many other atvs, some models with different electrical set ups it may not be the best thing to do, so I think the "safe way" that we have concluded here is that if you are not sure, jump it with the vehicle shut off. Thanks for all the input

[BobT]

I've been doing a little digging into this subject of jump starting an ATV using an automobile. What I was looking for in particular was not more opinions from other forums but a more reliable opinion from a mechanic's HSOforum or battery manufacturer's HSOforum.

As I expected I found very little information but I finally found some from APEX batteries talking about jump starting vehicles in general. There was one time when they briefly mentioned that...

Quote:

some vehicle manufacturers recommend that you turn off the engine of the good vehicle to protect it's charging system prior to starting the disabled vehicle. Check the owner's manual; otherwise, leave the engine running...

This supports my comment that the car's system might be more at risk than the ATV charging system.

In fact, from Remy Batteries I found that they specifically indicate their jumper/booster cables are suitable for jump starting ATVs, Boats, RVs, motorcycles, motorscooters, tractorss, heavy equipments, truckss, and other equipment.

At any rate, except for persons with questionable credentials stating their own opinions on other forum discussion boards, I found no reliable source stating not to jump start a 12v ATV battery using a car; running or otherwise.

It is important to be very careful using jumper cables. Batteries produce explosive gases and connecting cables to a dead battery will produce a spark that could ignite those gases causing an explosion. It's always best to connect the cables in this order.

• Connect one RED clamp to (+) terminal on dead battery

• Connect other RED clamp to (+) terminal on good battery

• Connect one BLACK clamp on (-) terminal of good battery

• Connect other BLACK clamp onto frame member of dead vehicle away from the battery
• Disconnect the cables in reverse order

Just thought I'd pass this along.

Bob

[Roofer]

Bob, the quote I gave was from a good source, and not from a forum.

I get tons of info from forums though. This is from people with first hand knowledge of modern engines and electrical systems. The quote you gave from APEX is common knowledge for the past 15 years. My 2002 Chevy truck has an alternate area that is protected and made specifically for jump starting. This will protect my vehicle, but not the others....let alone a low amperage atv system.

Like already stated throughout the internet and any other info you can find.....To jump start an atv or motorcycle from a car, it is safest to not have the car running. The amps generated by the car's charging system is too much for atv's or motorcycles.

If you have trouble finding that answer, then maybe you are only looking for the answer you want to see.

Yes, 12 volts is 12 volts, but like I already stated, it's the amps you have to worry about. That is in any electrical system.

[Macgyver55]

Take it for what its worth, but being in the profession I am (mechanic) for the past 32 years, I have probably jump started more vehicles in a winter than many people will do in a lifetime. At work we use a very heavy duty jumper pack for portability. This unit is capable of 3400 peak amps in 12 volt mode and will spin the starters on all class 1-6 commercial trucks. 3400 amps is about the equivalent of about 4 to 6 average car batteries or about 25 to 30 car alternators charging at full capacity! We also use this same pack for everything from semi trucks to bobcats, and we also use it to power trucks for short periods when the charging system fails. I would not hesitate one moment to use this same unit on my ATV!

12 volts is 12 volts but the current (amps) flows when there is a load (starter) placed on the power source (battery). The main reason you wouldn't need to have the car running is because there is already an adequate supply of amperage available in the car battery, but the starter on the ATV will only draw what it needs regardless of what is available.

The one main thing not mentioned so far, if the vehicle is running is to not leave the cables hooked up for longer than necessary to start the ATV because the auto charging system will attempt to charge the dead battery faster than it is capable of accepting a charge. Other than that I see no reason it would harm the ATV.

Roofer, if you trace the remote jumper terminal on your pickup you will probably find that it is connected directly by cable to your battery. (My wifes 06 Chev is) The only protection you are getting is that a remote terminal will give easier access to jump start and keep any arcing away from the battery area. As far as protection, it is no more protecting your charging or electronics system than hooking directly to the battery.

[BobT]

Quote:

If you have trouble finding that answer, then maybe you are only looking for the answer you want to see.

Actually, you misunderstand my intentions. I was trying to find hard evidence to contradict my claims simply because if I am incorrect, then I want to set the record straight.

After nearly 20 years in electrical design I feel, well I hope, I have learned enough to know how amperage, voltage, resistance, impedance, watts, and power most likely relate to each other. But along with those years of experience, I am also willing to submit that each system can have its own unique characteristics and so I could easily be mistaken in modern systems.

I beg to differ though that it is commonly stated better to not have the supply vehicle running. I honestly only found that statement in the one I quoted, which in itself was only eluded to, otherwise the only other place I found it was in other opinion forums. I tried searching about a half-dozen different terms and reorganized by search criteria a number of ways hoping to find more concrete answers.

In either case, it is probably safe to say that using your car to jump start your ATV is, in most cases, not likely to draw your car battery down so far it won't start your own car anymore. This is one of the primary reasons to leave your car running, by the way. With that said, if by the outside chance that I may be incorrect, it might be okay to not have the car running if there is concern.

Bob

[sparkydm]

Roofer, Macgyver55 is right on this. I'm a master electrician. You made a couple of statements that show you know very little about electricity. In particular, you stated that "volts and watts mean squat" Quite the opposite! Volts,amps,watts,ohms(resistence) are all expressed in an algebraic equation called Ohm's Law. ac777's atv is a perfect example of this. BobT was on the mark when he said that the resistance of the starter determines the amperage of the circuit. When you know 2 of the values, you can then find the third. In this case the volts and ohms are known so Ohm's Law can be used to find the amperage draw. It is basic electrical FACT. Like 2+2=4.

[Roofer]

Haha, ok

Do it then, and when the electrical system and small wires on the atv fry, let me know.

It has happened before. My wife's uncle is a tow truck driver and every source on the net says the same thing. I think that is enough info for me.

[Dave S]

With all due respect to Bob, MacGyver, Sparky and Phred, I will personally err on the side of caution and not use any full size vehicle to jump my ATV.

I'm in the same boat as Roofer where I have seen damage done.

One thing that I will not rule out is whether or not the damage was caused by operator error, by nature of design (if that's possible) or if it was caused due to other factors.

I do want to note that I have the utmost respect for those with knowledge in electronics. It's something that people have always encouraged me to take up, but I never did. I appreciate the information provided as there is clearly a division on what people believe, be it right or wrong. I'm not going to begin to judge that.

In the end, we can all step back and agree to disagree. I do know that from now on I have more people that I and many others can rely on for information be it mechanical, electrical or just general info.

Thanks to all who posted with the information on both sides. It's very much appreciated. It's what makes this site so great.

I will take some time away from this thread to allow any civil replies and come back later to lock it up as we've strayed from the original topic. All of you have earned my respect.

Thank You,

DS

[Macgyver55]

Haha, ok

Do it then, and when the electrical system and small wires on the atv fry, let me know.

What would cause these wires to fry unless there is some other underlying problem like shorted wiring to begin with?

If the only thing wrong with the ATV being jumped is that the battery is dead, the only time anything will "flow" out of the battery when jumping it is when there is a "demand" for it, like cranking the starter, or turning on lights and accessories.

There is nothing wrong with erring on the side of caution..... I'd just prefer to just jump start the ATV and be out riding since I'm confident in in my knowledge that it won't hurt it.

[sparkydm]

Nobody is saying you're wrong about not running the engine. If you think it is safer then do that. My point and the point of other posters is that using a power source capable of delivering more amps doesn't mean that it will send more amps. That's all we are saying. The starter will only draw a certain number of amps regardless of the battery size. Also, the other circuits of the system are fuse protected, as is the starter circuit. If too many amps flow through the circuit, the fuse will blow anyway. I believe you when you say it has happened before, but most likely didn't happen in a system in proper working order. I didn't get my info from a tow truck driver or the net. It came from my education and years of professional experience.

[Roofer]

Why don't you leave it hooked up for very long then? It should only take what it draws, right?

If that is correct, we could put a charging system in our atv's, along with a battery from any car or truck and it would be fine??

[BobT]

Your answer to that question might be in the voltage of the two circuits. If memory serves me correctly, most automobile charging systems output approximately 14v, 13.8v is what comes to mind. Airjer could shed some light here as well. What is the output rating of the ATV charging system? If is is less, say 12.5v, then applying 14v may potentially cause some issues I suspect. I just threw out the 12.5v figure as an example and I may not be accurate there.

With regard to amp draw. Imagine what would happen if our homes were forced to accept the available amperage from the line supply. We wouldn't be able to keep a circuit breaker closed.

Bob

[Macgyver55]

Why don't you leave it hooked up for very long then?

As I said, the charging system is capable of charging the dead ATV battery faster than it should be charged. We aren't talking about charging though, we were talking about jump starting.