Post turn over plan of attack??????

[MUSKY18]

So now that it seems turnover has occured in most of the lakes in the state, what are your plans of attack? Shallow or deep? Weeds or rocks? Blades, jerk-baits or Cranks? Lets hear it. I am sure that CJAC will provide us with a ton of information and his coveted "FALL SECRECTS". Help us out CJAC!

[b1gf1sh1]

i'm stuck on shore for the rest of my fishing year (boat needs attention) so i'll try and find a bay somewhere and cast some bucktails and spinnerbaits. i will more than likely work them real slow. they'll need those big blades for that i'm sure. i might work a believer or a super shad-rap if i can somehow find a point with some deep water around it. if i'm feeling really brave i might look for some really fast water and cast just inside of the break. i could probably cast with just about anything but more than likely it'll just be a spinnerbait or a really big rattle trap in case they need a boost. sure hope i can find some places like this .

[JRedig]

You know, in doing some reading and what i've seen with fish patterns, i'm not convinced turn over is done or has even started on some lakes. I'm gonna go play with a thermometer at different depths and see what I find.

[cjac]

Well, hardly an expert but here are a few thoughts.....

First off, I agree (I think) with JRedig and the turn is not completed just yet, however a cold night like tonight with some continued wind may just finish the deal. We've not really had a major weather change until now, so the process can be subtle, as RK mentioned in a turnover post a while back.

Assuming its turned, it still doesn't mean muskies abandon their pre-turn patterns and locations entirely. Many of us hit White Bear, so I'll use that as an example. If I head there this weekend I'll still look to some of the classic spots (points, humps, weeds, etc) as there is a reason they are "classic spots", they offer structure, cover, water movement pending wind direction, etc. These are by no means secret spots, but I've got fish off them in years past in late Oct and November.

Weeds: You can still find some green, think about first ice for pannies, you find any green then and it's a big plus. Same applies for the last couple weeks. Last year on Nov 5th, we had a good day on an outside weedline off a flat, moved lots of fish. Most looked brown, but there was green here and there.

Rocks: Lakes with ciscoes, look to rocks, think of Mille Lacs, FR Hennepin, Myr Mar areas, it's what the baitfish are relating to. That said, I'd throw all conventional wisdom out the window in regards to that lake this year. Anything goes in my book at this point.....

I prefer spots with deep water near by, the expansive shallow flats void of character don't seem to work for me as much in the Fall. More of a spot on the spot, with deep water being a significant factor. There are a couple spots on 'tonka with weeds off a nice wind-swept point adjacent to deep water I hit every time out, and they have produced. That's an example of putting the pieces together.

Lures: Suicks, Bulldawgs, and spinnerbaits for the most part, but don't rule out topwater just yet. Last few times out this year and as I recall in year's past I'd see fish up shallow, like leaving the ramp shallow. A nice afternoon with some sun can warm up the shallows and attract forage and in turn muskies.

Time of day: Looking back, most of the late Fall fish in my boat are more from the mid-morning to mid-afternoon window, not much early or late. I've had a lot of success with the Vikes game on, more success than they've had..... Redig and I had this very conversation about mid-day last week.

Think of it in terms of if you were to go out and soak a sucker on a QS rig....I'd look for the spot on the spot that is proven, has structure, cover for forage, ambush points, access to deep water, and is in tried and proven muskie waters.

One more thought on the "spot on the spot" idea, listen to the Fall walleye trollers, who catch accidental muskies by the way (Hanson!). They can work an area and find the spot within the spot and target that area and catch fish instead of simply setting a course and hoping for the best.

I said a lot of things that may seem somewhat contradictory, but the point is there is no set pattern. Read the conditions (weather & water), your fishing logs, and stack the information in your favor.

[DHanson]

Pretty sure turnover is done. Even Minnetonka water has cleared up. There was a thread 2-3 weeks ago where RK even mentioned turnover had started. This front should have taken care of things. Further south might be a different story, but central MN and north should be done.

I don't change my plan of attack much from summer to fall. The same stuff works for me in the fall as the summer. I will mention though, if you are fishing a lake with a lot of rocks and tulibee, look to be fishing the rocks.

By the way, nice post cjac. Some good stuff there.

[MUSKY18]

I knew that you would come through for us CJAC!!!!

For me, it is time to really break out the big Suicks and Bobbies of the weighted variety. I really like them in the fall because of the "hang time" the weighted version give you. Hammer them over the rocks and let them slowly wobble and float slowly upwards. As Dick Pearson told me this summer.....if you put a 10" Suick in front of a muskie, they will eat it! The big blade bite is slowing down quite a bit, which leads me to believe that it is time for the wood. When I was out on Saturday, I found all kinds of baitfish schooled up just outside the weedlines/breaks. It seems like the tullies are staging and getting ready to move up for spawning. Water was anywhere from 46-50 on the lake I was fishing.

Agree with CJAC....I will check my classic spots and if there are still green weeds, the spot will be fished throughly. Green weeds means oxygen, which means fish of all size and variety. I know of a few spots that are rocks points that drop off into some deep water combined with a rocky shoreline, which is where the tullies spawn. One spot I will be checking often!

[cjac]

One more point on the "hang time" lures as Bret calls them. I'll also include the 10" Believers to the list of Suicks and Bobbie Baits.

With that "hang time" fish will often hit on the rise as mentioned, or a similar time without direct line tension. It's critical to have sharp hooks and to remember to set the hook, and HARD, when the fish hit on these. I've lost a few that left a mark, and should have been caught if I set the hooks hard and left a mark on my rib cage from the rod butt on the hookset instead of a mental image/mark of a big fish lost. Bony mouthes need a power set, simple as that.

That Pearson guy Bret mentioned just might thing or two about what baits to use.....

[Dano_the_jigasaurus]

Bret--

I take it the bite is slowing down out on the lake just in time for my first trip home this fall? Are you going to be out this weekend? I am tentatively thinking Saturday, so say hi if you see me running around out there.

What about triple d's for hang time baits, they don't float up but they hang?

dan

[MUSKY18]

Dano~

The bite is slowing down, but not completely dead as of yet. Last saturday my brother and buddy moved quite a few fish, all on big blades. I don't think you can not throw them, as they are just too efficient. I would tend to throw them more over any green weeds that you can find, as opposed to rocks. Pink/Pink and Flame Blades with black hair have been the hottest colors.

I would tend to think that the Triple D's will also work very well. Very big profile and worked high in the water and then let them slowly sink down into the muskies zone should be another effective way to catch the cold water beast. I don't throw them very often as I don't have much confidence in them. I have caught too many fish on Bobbies and Suicks to not have them in the water!!

Won't be out there this weekend. Have my "one weekend a month" for Uncle Sam. Might sneak out Friday after work if the weather stays nice.

[Hoffer]

I love to fish Muskie - but have never had much of a plan of attack. This time of year - I usually do the fast-trolling thing - like around 4 to 4.5mph with a deep diver like a believer....havent heard any of you guys mention that?? is it because it really isnt all that effective now?? I always thought the late Fall and colder temps were the time to fast troll? Or is it because the Muskie guys dont really like to fast troll and prefer the casting method?? just asking

[JRedig]

Pretty sure turnover is done. Even Minnetonka water has cleared up. There was a thread 2-3 weeks ago where RK even mentioned turnover had started. This front should have taken care of things. Further south might be a different story, but central MN and north should be done.

Well, i'd say my thermometer says differently, but maybe that's not everything to do with turnover. I found water as cold as 40 degree's depending on the depth and a steady drop in temperature with depth increasing. This was on a deep clear lake. If there is water that cold deeper, wouldn't the surface have to cool to that temperature for mixing to occur? There was a point where it didn't get any colder to the bottom, below about 45 feet.

[50inchpig]

steady drop in temp = no thermocline = post turnover

warmer water already cooled and sunk and is continuing to cool, anytime you're talking temps in the 40s it's already happened and it's time to stick a fat slob.

i think turnover was a non-event on alot of lakes this year

and hoffer, i think the general consensus is that trolling is boring, but i've done ok running believers along weedlines when i had to troll, so if that's your bag stick with it

[DHanson]

I don't know everything about turnover. JRedig you might very well be right. One thing to consider, is post turnover after all the water has mixed, surface temps may once again slightly warm up from the warmer air above well after turnover. Especially if there is a bright sun out.

[JRedig]

I hear you guys, i'm not saying i'm right, just thinking out loud.

I wouldn't say there was a totally steady drop in temperature, but as you said 50inch pig, i'm not sure how much mixing there was to do this year. Maybe we've been in post turnover all year!

[Rmac]

I like everything 50inch pig said. Well put.

[NCLaker]

... and hoffer, i think the general consensus is that trolling is boring, but i've done ok running believers along weedlines when i had to troll, so if that's your bag stick with it

I thought trolling is something you did to rest your arms between stints of tossing the big double bladed buck tails

[Doonbuggy]

There's a month left in the season so I think turnover is a moot issue. Who cares! Get out and go play with a big girl!

I don't know if Tonka has started, has finished or what, but I've been moving fish nearly every time out. Fish shallow, find green weeds, find transition areas, fish windy areas if you can and fish deep edges in particular if you see baitfish on your graph.

I also like straight-ahead baits right now like bucktails and big rubber. Do a solid 8 every time at the boat and hang on!

DB

[Hoffer]

Well....went out to independance this afternoon from 2 to sundown. The water temp was 50 degrees. The water was very green and actually had alot of floating green scum etc...so I dont know much about turnover - but Independance was sure murky still. We were stubborn and just fast trolled all afternoon. We should have taken a break to cast - but it was actually a nice relaxing sunny afternoon to just put the rods in the rod holder and cruise around at 4mph. However, not even one strike...so maybe the fast trolling thing in the Fall isnt really the thing to do. But we will head out again on Friday and try again.