diesel vs. gas

[LMITOUT]

Nope. I've heard this same sky is falling for many years. There is no way to prove it. Assume, yes. Prove, no.

Sit back and enjoy the ride. Don't sweat the small stuff.

[fishnhuntnboy]

Well I went to the dealership today and looked at a 1998 Dodge Dakota. It is in very good shape and only has 82,000 miles on it.

Can anyone tell me if they have anything bad about them? Also what your views you have on them and what you know?

[Valv]

If you are going from a 1/2 ton Chevy to a Dakota you will make a big mistake. Even if it has the 5.9 magnum you will see the difference.

Towing power is less, since it's a smaller truck, seating, box, and payload are less. Mileage really sucks.

Besides what this has to do with Diesel vs Gas topic ? You might get better answers if you start your own topic.

[Scott K]

Umm Val, this is his topic, he started this one . I do agree with him though. Milage will dissapoint you, as well as the pulling. I dont remember what you said you would be pulling, if it is small then it wont be bad, if it is a medium sized load, you will more then likely get worse milage then before.

[fishnhuntnboy]

Sayin Val i did start this topic. lol. Yea I did put in thought that it was a smaller truck and I wont be able to tow alot of weight with it. All I am really going to be pulling is a 16' Bass tracker. I figured that it would get better mileage since it is a smaller truck but if i can get better mileage in a 1/2 ton then i might as well go with that. I havent bought the truck yet as in i want to see what else is out there. I just know that i am getting a deal for that truck.

[jltimm]

I've never understood why people would buy a Dakota with the same engines as the full size dodge, and get the same bad mileage with lesser payload, and lesser capabilities? They are a decent pickup, but you can get more done with a full size dodge, not that everyone needs a full size truck.

[Scott K]

If you go small truck, get one with a 4 cyl for milage. If you plan on towing with it much that wont work for you. No happy medium!

[fishnhuntnboy]

I know those 4 bangers are nice on mileage but i know i will not get one. lol. See the thing that has got me is that i will only be towing a boat for the summer months on my days off and then come august i move back to ely for school. This is one reason that i am buying a truck so i can have the 4x4 and not get stuck again in my car especially if we have a winter like this past one. My dads boat weighs roughly 1500lbs probably a little lighter. But if the ram is going to be better than the dakota and get same mileage than i might as well go with a Ram 1500.

[ChuckN]

My friend has been driving mid-'90s Dakotas for a number of years. His first Dakota was great and went well over 100K mileage until it was in an accident. He found the same used truck to replace it and he's had great luck with this one also. I want to say both have gone many, many miles and keep going with no major problems.

He has the V8 motor, and I've driven the truck and the mileage was ok, around 18 mpg highway. This Dakota has pulled my 18' glass boat a little with no problem.

It will tow a 16' boat just fine.

[jltimm]

I own a 97 Toyota Tacoma xtra cab 4x4 with a 3.4 ltr 6 cylinder. I tow a 1999 Lund Pro V with a 50 hp Yamaha four stroke motor. I got 17-18 mpg pulling it to Canada with both truck and boat fully loaded. I get 17-22 mpg empty in the summer. Iknow your looking at Dodges, but I just thought I'd throw this out there.

[Valv]

Sorry fishnhuntnboy, I got lost and confused with another thread, I apologize.

I would stick with a full size, all my experience with a smaller truck and towing is you get worse or same mileage, consequently I 'd go with size.

[fishnhuntnboy]

its cool val, everyone gets comfused at times. lol. The post sounded so angry. lol.

anyways thanks for the help everyone. I will have to wait and see what all happens. And which vehicle i can get.

[rundrave]

Used to own a 2.7L 4cyl Tacoma. That motor will pull 3500lbs no problem and you can still have a 4x4.

I now have the 4.0L v6 Tacoma only upgraded to the 4.0 so I could have the DBL cab instead of a extended cab.

Both have a 6ft bed by the way.

If you dont have to tow any more than your boat, and it sounds like you dont, then there is no need for a v8.

[311Hemi]

Heck....I pulled out 16' Bass Tracker up north with my Chevy Beretta (2.8l V6) back in the day! LOL Not too many times though.....so....

Like others, I would go with the full size truck instead of a mid sized with a V8.

[fishnhuntnboy]

Hey everyone thanks for all of the good info. It has helped me out a lot on making my decision of what kind of truck to get.

Thanks again

[upnorth]

Smaller ain't always better mileage. I went from a 2000 Ranger with the 4.0 with 4.10 gears to 2005 F150 with the 4.6 and 3.55 gears and more towing capacity/better payload and get better mpg with the F150. Best I ever got with the ranger was 17 mpg and I can get up 19 mpg with the F150.

Go figure

[Scott K]

I too had a 01 ranger 4.0 I might have gotten 15 at best, pulling my boat more like 8mpg. I have full sized truck now, I get 19, with boat I get 15 or so, depends on how fast I drive.

[ChuckN]

I had a '92 Ranger 4x4 4.0L ext cab, auto, that got no worse than 20mpg highway (usually 23-25!) and 16mpg pulling my old 17' boat. Same with a '93 Explorer 4.0L I also owned. Great vehicles too...

I don't know what Ford did to that motor, but the 2000+ models were less efficient from several people I know who owned these and complained about the mileage.

[Scott K]

The 2000 and older had the regular push rod motor, the 01 + had the 4.0 sohc engine, it added alot more power, great take off, could squeal the tires like crazy. Hook the boat up to it, and I would need to drive it at like 4000+ rpm to get any power out of it!

[DinkADunk]

Nope. I've heard this same sky is falling for many years. There is no way to prove it. Assume, yes. Prove, no.

Sit back and enjoy the ride. Don't sweat the small stuff.

You should update yourself a bit. On some motors you can detect the use of a programmer. For example take this little buliin from the General. If you want to play then be prepared to pay.

Subject:Information on Identifying Non-GM Calibration Usages for LMM Duramax® Diesel Engine

Models:2005-2008 Chevrolet Express, Kodiak, Silverado

2005-2008 GMC Savana, Sierra, TopKick

with 6.6L Duramax® Diesel Engine (VINs D, 2 , 6 -- RPOs LBZ, LLY, LMM)

This bulletin is being revised to add additional model years, a Caution statement regarding likely Powertrain damage and information about documenting non-GM calibration information. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 08-06-04-006A (Section 06 -- Engine/Propulsion System).

Caution: Customers should be informed that even after the calibration has been returned to a GM certified configuration, it is likely that engine, transmission, transfer case and/or other driveline components were weakened to the point of premature failure, while subjected to the higher stresses from the non-GM calibration (Power-Up Kit). Engine, transmission, transfer case and/or other driveline components where a non-GM engine calibration has been verified are not covered under the terms of the New Vehicle Warranty.

Power-Up Kit Detection

For 2007-2008 applications, an Engine Control Module (ECM) algorithm was implemented that records the engine calibration part number and Calibration Verification Number (CVN) for the last 10 flash programming events. The ECM only records the engine calibration part number because it contains the parameters for increasing torque and fueling rates.

Some customers may have re-programmed the ECM with a non-GM released calibration. The (Power-Up Kit) powertrain calibration changes fueling and timing parameters and likely contributes to the following vehicle conditions:

• Poor Performance

• Black Smoke (This symptom is not valid for the 6.6L (LMM) diesel equipped with the diesel particulate filter (DPF). The DPF will trap black smoke unless the DPF is cracked, melted or has been removed from the exhaust system.)

• Knocking Noise

• Engine Damage

If a vehicle comes in for service for a driveability/powertrain concern as a result of a Power-Up Kit installation, the dealership technician now can read the last 10 engine calibration part numbers and CVN history using a Tech 2 ®.

The dealership technician would input each ECM calibration part number into the SPS/TIS2WEB CVN database to confirm the CVN history information. Refer to Tech 2 path table in this bulletin to verify ECM calibration.

2007-2008 LMM Tech 2 Powertrain Output Controls Path Table for NON-GM ECM Calibration

<LI type=1>Build the vehicle with the Tech 2. <LI type=1>Select F0: Engine Control Module. <LI type=1>Select F5: Module Identification Information. <LI type=1>Select F1: Programming History. <LI type=1>Turn Ignition On and Engine Off. Press ENTER Key to Continue. Important: An original production engine operation part number programmed in the ECM from the supplier, which is the last part number shown, would not be in the SPS/TIS2WEB database.

<LI type=1>Record the Calibration I.D. Numbers and Verification Numbers from the Tech 2 Programming History Screen.

From SPS/TIS2WEB, record the Calibration Part Number into the CVN Database. Get CVN.

• If the CVN does not match the CVN database, an unauthorized engine calibration part was flash programmed into the ECM.

• If the CVN matches the CVN database, we can assume a Power-Up Kit that flash programs engine calibrations was not used.

2005-2007 LLY and LBZ Instructions for Confirming Calibration Verification Number (CVN)

<LI type=1>Go to TIS2WEB <LI type=1>Select "Calibration Information (SPS Info)" <LI type=1>Enter VIN <LI type=1>Select "Get Cal ID" <LI type=1>Select "ECM Engine Control Module" <LI type=1>Select "Next" <LI type=1>Select "Complete History" <LI type=1>Print <LI type=1>Take the printout to the vehicle along with the Tech 2® <LI type=1>Plug in the Tech 2® <LI type=1>Go to diagnostics and build the vehicle <LI type=1>Select "Powertrain" <LI type=1>Select "Engine" <LI type=1>*Select "Engine Control Module" <LI type=1>*Select "Module ID Information" or "I/M Information System" if module ID information selection is not available. <LI type=1>*If "I/M information System" was selected in step 15, it may be necessary to select "Vehicle Information" in order to display the calibration information.

Compare the calibration ID and Calibration Verification Numbers (CVN) to the Calibration Verification Numbers (CVN) on the printout.

* Steps may vary by controller.

Although the part numbers will be the same for each, it's the CVN that will determine if the calibration is GM issued. If ALL of the CVN's are EXACTLY the same, the calibration is GM issued.

If the part numbers match and ANY CVN's DO NOT match the printout, it is likely that a non-GM certified calibration has been installed.

If the CVN information is displayed as "N/A", it will be necessary to contact the TCSC to obtain the CVN information.

If a non-GM calibration is found to be in the ECM (CVN's on the Tech 2 do not match TIS printout) - In order to document the case -- a CLEAR digital picture should be taken of the Tech 2® screen showing the VIN and the CVN's that do not match the TIS2WEB printout. The picture, VIN and reason the vehicle is currently in for service should be emailed to [email protected] for verification. Please copy your GM District Service Manager (DVM) on the e-mail. GM will verify if the CVN's are not GM issued and respond via e-mail within 72 hours.

GM bulletins are intended for use by professional technicians, NOT a "do-it-yourselfer". They are written to inform these technicians of conditions that may occur on some vehicles, or to provide information that could assist in the proper service of a vehicle. Properly trained technicians have the equipment, tools, safety instructions, and know-how to do a job properly and safely. If a condition is described, DO NOT assume that the bulletin applies to your vehicle, or that your vehicle will have that condition. See your GM dealer for information on whether your vehicle may benefit from the information.

[LMITOUT]

Funny thing about this little TSB is that a Tech 2 reflash will change the CVN and trigger this TSB as well, so apparently not just "power-up kits" are potentially voiding people's warranties. Nice try GM.

[LMITOUT]

Oh, I forgot to add that the date was omitted on that TSB above, but FYI it was issued June 27, 2008 so this is something new and hasn't been around forever.

[DinkADunk]

But there were earlier notes on this and has been a few rumblings all year. I'm wondering if you use a programmer (like efilive) to set tire sizes, or reprogram the fuel guage to handle a larger tank would also cause the same effect or if it is strictly effected by changing fueling points and other things that could have a real effect.