Home Heating Question

[fisherchick]

Thanks in advance to anyone who can help me out!

I bought my house in June, it was for sale by owner. I was told all kinds of things about the house that were not true. For example, it is heated by a forced air fuel oil furnace. They had told me $800 for the whole year. So far, at least since November, it has cost me $800.00/month for a less than 600 sq ft home. I realize the cost of fuel has gone up, but I don't think that much! As you can imagine I have spend everything down to the fuzz in my pockets!

My question is: what would be the most cost efficient way to insulate the house a bit better to help with heating costs? My basement is unfinished, poured wall, non-insulated. The attic is insulated (MOST of the snow remains on the roof, except near the chimney) and I have no ice on the eves. The house is old, and, as far as my knowledge goes, I have no way of finding out how much insulation exists in the walls without putting a hole in it. As far as I can tell I am losing most of my heat between the first floor and the basement. All of the snow is melted for approx a foot around the whole perimeter of the house. (I like to joke and say I am the only one in Itasca County that has Tulips growing...) Oh yea, one other non-disclosed bit of info..they also told me the basement didn't leak anymore, yet it does. I added gutters in the fall AFTER the rain season, so any work to the basement (I THINK) I would have to wait to see if it still leaks?? Right??

Any suggestions would be helpful. I appreciate it!

fisherchick

[Eric Wettschreck]

You have many options. Here are some things that I did. I feel your pain as I live in a very old home, also.

Get a much more efficient furnace.

You can save a ton by making sure your rib joists are insulated. That's the space where the floor joist is sitting on the block, and the floor. I put some fiberglass insulation in mine and it saved huge. I had a lot of draft coming in from that area also.

I resided my place, and put 3/4" insulation and vapor barrier down before I installed the siding. I understand this may not be an option. Blow in insulation, leaving your existing siding on, may be an option. I don't know the costs involved with this, however.

I dug around the exterior of my house, down about 4' and glued 1" insulation to the block leaving no block exposed.

If your basement is unfinished, insulating that will help a lot, also.

Good luck. I know what you are going through and it isn't fun. By the way, my basement gets wet too.

[BoxMN]

I am no pro, but will offer some help I found from my 1945 house. You don't mention if windows are old or not, but if they are old(er) first thing is to use that 3M stuff, It will help a lot.

If it is two story, and if you are not using the upper level, a door at the bottom of the stairs helps a ton, keeps the warm air where you "live". So those two things are not your perm solution, but make a big difference short term.

We put on new siding last fall, and when doing that we wrapped the house in tyvek and also added an exterior "form fit" foam. It didn't add much, but supposedly an R5.5 or somethign like that... I think the wrap helped with draft's quite a bit. But if you are not planning new siding, that won't help you much.

We also put in new windows. This helped TONS! A fairly expensive item, but if you plan to be there for even a few years it will help on heating costs, look nicer, and help on resale whenever you do sell.

Our basement is same as yours. I only have put insulation between the joists against the plates, and that did help some, but I have to go and do a better job this spring. I think two layers, or at least 6.5" would help more than the R15 I have in there now. Easy to do as well, and cheap.

There is a type of foil backed insulation that a builder (of our upcoming cabin) uses for basement walls, but I am not sure of the exact name. He attaches it directly to concrete/block walls. It lets it breathe properly, as you need to insulated basements properly to keep mold out, and just lets you then build stud walls not attached to concrete walls, if you finish it later. He says water and moisture control is highest on his priority list, and this stuff works great and he swears by it. Hopefully a builder here can mention what it is, and if it indeed is that good.

The last thing that wopuld help you is a high efficency gas furnace. I knowthat is also a spendy item. We had to replace ours about5-6 years ago, and went with high efficiency, variable speed fan, and we no longer have hot or cold spots, and honestly the big fan rarely ever kicks in.

Sorry most of my thoughts seem to be expensive ones. But I wish I would have gotten new windows when we moved in 11 years ago, as we would have been benefitting from them for 10 years now, instead of just one. Good luck!

[Eric Wettschreck]

One thing about the furnace......My house used to be a LOT colder inside just cuz I couldn't afford to keep the old furnace lit all the time. We dressed like musk ox's while inside. A new furnace and "A" coil costed me about $1400. I did the install myself. My gas bill is half of what it was last winter, this winter is colder than last winter, and my house is warmer on the inside than last winter.

Programmable thermostat is big, also.

[solbes]

$800 a month? Wow that is painful. Sounds like a new furnace is in order for sure. Heating oil is so expensive these days. At that rate it won't take very long to recover your costs.

Programmable thermosat like mentioned, drop the temp significantly at night, and get yourself a nice toasty electric blanket. Unless you have kids of course. Weird solution, but works for some.

Can you get an energy check done, or at least get one of those IR temperature guns? On a cold, windy day look for cold spots and then add insulation or find a way to seal out the drafts. If your windows are drafty, a cheap and short term solution is to add the 3M window plastic film kits. Of course the better solution is to replace your windows but that can add up in hurry.

[fisherchick]

You guys are awesome!

I can tell you that the furnace has a mind of its own. Here is what I mean: If I have the 'stat set at 60 (for a nice even number) and the temp gets to that point, the furnace turns on. So far so good? Then, after the temp reaches 60+ it will stay on. Furnace, fan everything. It will keep going past 65, 66, 67...and finally I will turn the 'stat down and then back up which kicks the furnace off. Obviously I am not always there to do this, so I can only imagine what it does while I am not there. ($$$$$)

I bought myself a new thermostat, but have to wait to find someone who knows how NOT to fry themself in the installation process (Which I know I would do!) I was thinking this MIGHT help, but again only guessing.

The foil backed insulation sounds interesting to me. If you find a name or anything let me know. I work for an excavating company and have considered digging up around the basement, insulating, waterproofing, AND sloping the water (runoff) AWAY from my house. Not toward like it currently slopes!! But, again $$$$

The siding needs an upgrade, this would open up the opportunity to insulate the walls, but I am all alone in this process and $ is definately a problem with that big of a project.

As mentioned, I am pretty BROKE right now or at least until the $800/mo remains, the weather IS getting warmer, and I would like to spend as little as possible (for the time being) until I can upgrade the furnace. (WHICH IS A WHOLE NEW TOPIC OF QUESTIONS...)

The windows are newer...double pane, but there is a little amount of cold air coming in. Is that normal? Or are they CHEAP new windows???

I really have to start somewhere, but where is the question...I just want to make the situation better for next year one step at a time (Or do I mean $1 at a time!) :-) AND I want to do it RIGHT, so I really appreciate everyone's help! THANKS!!

fisherchick

[Lip_Ripper Guy]

A thermostat is super easy to install. Takes 3 minutes.

[Scott K]

T- stat #1, then insulate around the footings second, just that alone should save you hundreds a month! Tstat now!

[Eric Wettschreck]

To start somewhere........

When you have time, remove the trim from around the inside of your windows. If there is draft coming in I'll bet ya a box of beer they arn't insulated well around the frame. This is a cheap and easy fix anyone can do. You want insulation around the window, not packed tightly, around the whole window. I used a framing square to "Tap" insulation around my windows and it worked wonderfully.

Sounds like your thermostat is not "Breaking circut" when the interior temp reaches setpoint. This is costing you a fortune. Also an easy fix. The voltage supplied to your furnace is going through a transformer, and powering your T-stat. Killing the power to the furnace will kill power to the T-stat. Wiring them in is fairly simple. If you don't feel comfortable doing this, find someone who is and by them a box of beer. This alone is costing you HUNDREDS!!!!

If you have access to a backhoe, digging and insulating around your exterior block will not be that expensive. Couple hundred bucks at the most.

Don't feel like Zoro, I don't know of too many people, myself included, that isn't pretty broke right now. When I replaced my house's siding, I did it one wall at a time, after the tax refund check came. It took 5 years but was well worth the investment. As an added bonus, my house doesn't look like the neighborhood crack house anymore.

[BoxMN]

If your windows are "newer" I would say they are fine. At least in your priority list.

I would say the first step would be to have a heating/furnace expert fix your furnace, and give you a quote a new one. That alone, while costing maybe $100-$150 dollars would probably save you hundreds in the first month alone. I would do that right away.

Do you have gas to the house already? If not, you will have to pay to run a gas line, and that could be $ or $$$ depending upon the run.

But definitely sounds like your furnace is the culprit more so than insulation. At least at this point. I'd get furnace guy out there like tomorrow if it was me!

edit: maybe it is as simple as tstat, and that would be great, and really is easy to do. But a check on the furnace from a pro is not a bad thing, and worth the extra $$, IMO. He may even credit you the call fee if you end up getting a new furnace from him down the road. My furnace guy did.

[fisherchick]

I just got off the phone with the "furnace guy" and he said he would install the t-stat for me and look at putting a smaller nozzle on the furnace so it stops burning SO MUCH fuel at one time. The house does warm FAST (small house, huge furnace) and that was an additional suggestion on his part. Sound good to everyone? (At least so far??)

Looks like if this all works, I owe everyone a case of beer for all of the money I will save due to the help/suggestions I have received here!!

[Eric Wettschreck]

Sounds good so far.

A properly working furnace and T-stat shouldn't have your house cycling from cold to hot to cold to hot. Your house should stay at an even temp, up or down 5 degrees or so. If it's burning too much fuel, it's burning way hot. Sometimes, the flame burning cooler but for a longer time is actually the way to go. But what do I know, I fix boilers for a living.

Do you have natural gas availiable? Or Propane? This may be an option for you to be looking at down the road. Feel the stove pipe drafting out of your furnace to the chimney. If it's hot, or even warm, that is heat you are paying for, that's being wasted by going out the chimmney. The newer nat gas and LP high effeciency furnaces are just that, high efficiency. They are so efficient the flue gasses are cool enough to condense moisture. This is a great thing as you aren't paying for wasted heat. There are higher efficiency fuel oil furnaces out there also, but the efficiency isn't nearly as good. Better than what you have now, tho. Plus, if you install a high efficiency unit you get some tax breaks. Just tossin it out there for you to ponder.

[Scott K]

We could have saved you more alot earlier if you would have asked us sooner . Good luck, Im sure this will help a ton!

[sparcebag]

 Originally Posted By: fisherchick

Thanks in advance to anyone who can help me out!

I bought my house in June, it was for sale by owner. I was told all kinds of things about the house that were not true. For example, it is heated by a forced air fuel oil furnace. They had told me $800 for the whole year. So far, at least since November, it has cost me $800.00/month for a less than 600 sq ft home. I realize the cost of fuel has gone up, but I don't think that much! As you can imagine I have spend everything down to the fuzz in my pockets!

My question is: what would be the most cost efficient way to insulate the house a bit better to help with heating costs? My basement is unfinished, poured wall, non-insulated. The attic is insulated (MOST of the snow remains on the roof, except near the chimney) and I have no ice on the eves. The house is old, and, as far as my knowledge goes, I have no way of finding out how much insulation exists in the walls without putting a hole in it. As far as I can tell I am losing most of my heat between the first floor and the basement. All of the snow is melted for approx a foot around the whole perimeter of the house. (I like to joke and say I am the only one in Itasca County that has Tulips growing...) Oh yea, one other non-disclosed bit of info..they also told me the basement didn't leak anymore, yet it does. I added gutters in the fall AFTER the rain season, so any work to the basement (I THINK) I would have to wait to see if it still leaks?? Right??

Any suggestions would be helpful. I appreciate it!

fisherchick

You should have received a Truth in housing,or on contract stated what if anything was wrong with house,If it wasn't truthful you may have a alternative route,contact the realitor or Att.

[King Canada]

Sounds like there was no realtor...Thermax is a brand of foam board that is typically used on foundations. It is just as effective when installed on the inside..comes with a fire resistant foil covering and is approved for interior use...effective between the joists too...if you think you might be income eligable check with your County about weatherization programs.

[minndonn]

I have a 30 year old Yukon wood/oil combination furnace and was looking at 450 a mo or more for fuel oil this year. I installed dual heat electic in my furnace and the cost for one month *Jan 23rd to Feb 23rd) was $121.00. It cost about 1700 installed. I also had to upgrade my service from a 100amp to a 200amp servicewhich is at least another 700. Increasing the service will be useful if I want to put in electric range electric water heater. The electic co made me use fuel oil 24 hours during that 31 day period so not too much oil. This seemed like the most affordable alternative.

[Roofer]

People, please be careful "sealing up" these older houses and messing with the heat source. Be careful what you suggest if you don't know the codes and what pressure, vapor barriers, furnaces etc.... can do.

[Roofer]

BTW, this talk looks like talk from the 70's. And I wasn't even born yet. This is a very old topic going from furnaces to electric heat.

[fisherchick]

UPDATE:

Got a new t-stat and it made all the difference in the world. Furnace runs less and things are great! Although it IS a lot warmer now. By the way, I was born in the LATE 70's so does that mean I can't talk "70's Talk??" :-)

Just wanted to thank everyone for the advice!!!

[BigWadeS]

Glad that worked for you, there are very good and very accurate programmable thermostats right now for every application. I recommend trying this route first. It worked for fisherchick, I know it worked for me and a group of others that I converted to new thermostats too to help!