Do I NEED florocarbon leaders?

[NyQuiLlama]

I've always used mono but lately it seems everyone I know is using florocarbon (like Vanish), not only on their rods for panfish and walleye, but on tip-ups as well. Maybe I'm a cheapo, but $10 a spool adds up when I need 2lb, 4lb, 6lb, and 15lb. I've been doing okay without it for years now, but I'm a bit of a sucker for "the hype." Do I NEED it?

[Sandmannd]

I started using just 3 or 4 feet tied onto my line as a leader and it made a huge differance for me. I actually spooled it on an ice reel I had to change out. I go fishing with kingfisher a lot and that's all he uses. Was always outfishing me. We figured that line was the only difference. Started using the leaders and bang, keep up with him now.

[Deitz Dittrich]

Do you NEED it?.. no, your still catching fish arent you?... In clear water situations, will you catch more fish if you use florocarbon?.. Probably.. But you dont need it.

I have to admit, more of my rods have a copoly line, not staight floro... But I do have a couple of rods rigged with floro when in really tough clear situation. Floro isn't as limp as copoly line is.. And I like limp. THe floro does sink and helps get smaller lures down the hole faster.

[NyQuiLlama]

I fish in pretty clear water, I should probably just buy some for 18" leaders in all of the sizes I need.

I did find a pack of six 15 lb Vanish snells with Gamakatsu hooks for pretty cheap from Cabelas for my tip-ups. In two outings my test tip-up with the floro has caught more pike and got more strikes overall... but it isn't supposed to matter with pike. Or maybe it does in clear water with a natural presentation of a shiner hooked behind the dorsal. Also, my friend next to me was jigging with a florocarbon leader and he was the one who caught the 25" walleye that came into us that night, both of us were using small pimples with a crappie minnow head.

I'm beginning to be convinced.

[lunker651]

Flouro is the way to go. I catch way more fish then fishing mono. I use gamma and sunline flouro and 2 out of 3 outings with buddies, I'll out fish them.

[jakemcarroll]

I have considered going to a flouro on my ice rods recently too, but being a college student its hard to bite the bullet and buy it when I can get mono for a lot cheaper. I am thinking about buying a spool to use as a leader like a few of you had mentioned. I have never done this before, what would be the best way to tie it on the mono, do you use a swivel of some sort or a knot? Thanks!

[sodajerk]

On three of the rods I take along, I have 4lb Vanish, on the fourth I have 3lb Cajun Red and the fifth rod has 2lb P-Line copolymer. (I've only used the colpoly one day so far, but can't say enough good about it. It took all a mad 18" trout could dish out, screaming drag, pulling against the edges of the hole and all, and never even thought about breaking off.)

As for fluoro, I can see with my own eyes that it's less visible in the water, so I figure the same goes for the fish. It is more pricey, but it also is rated to last longer than mono. I figure, with the short lengths of line ice fishing uses, that I should get two season off a reel spooled with fluoro. If I notice that it breaks to easy next season I'll switch it out right away, but I'm going to go for two years for the price of it.

[Wallyeyes]

Jake, I use Vanish flouro leaders as well and have found the real small barrel swivels do the trick. About 12" to 18" is all the longer the leaders need to be, so, a spool of 4lb and a spool of 12lb is all I need to get me through two seasons/years.(open water & ice). Yeah, I pay around $30 for the two spools but only every other year. I also use alot of Fireline and that's kinda pricey too, but I feel that they both help me catch more fish. The flouro also helps with the hooksets, giving just enough stretch so I don't rip the lips off those delicious crappies.

You other people, are you spooling the entire spool with the flouro? I have tried doing that and the memory of that line just won't allow me to keep it on the reel. As soon as I open the bail about 3/4 of the line falls off. Just wondering.

[lunker651]

 Originally Posted By: Wallyeyes

You other people, are you spooling the entire spool with the flouro? I have tried doing that and the memory of that line just won't allow me to keep it on the reel. As soon as I open the bail about 3/4 of the line falls off. Just wondering.

I spool up all my reels with flouro lines. The memory is kind of stiff but mine never coil off the spool. When spooling make sure the line doesn't go twisting on the reel. Another thing is not to spool up too much line, i just spool up half way. You're not doing any casting so you don't need alot of lines. this is all I do and never had any problems. Oh by the way, The flouros I have on my reels is going on 3 years and still strong as new.

[PerchJerker]

I only use flouro if the water is really clear and the bite is really tough. At times I've done full spools of flouro but I don't like doing that, you're too likely to have line handling problems. At times I've tied on a flouro leader but I don't like doing that, it takes time and it adds in another knot or two that could fail.

I usually fish with a copolymer line like pLine or Gamma and have been very happy with them.

[eyebjim]

I used to think that it was a good line until this year. I have lost 8 walleyes at the hole that were about 28 inch + and one looked to be an inch or 2 over 30. All broke off. Heartbreaking. I have used the recommended knots and larger test line and I still had more break off at the knot. I will never be using flouro again. I switched to 12 lb mono and I haven't had any walleyes that big on since. Just a 25 incher up the hole no problem. I did manage a 9 pound catfish also with no problem on the mono. Don't beleive the hype.

[BoxMN]

Just a thought... but if you had 9 walleyes that big on WITH flouro, and none since, doesn't that indicate somewhat that flouro might be good at getting them to bite? I.e. it doesn't spook them?

I just tied some on and will see h ow it goes. I do know that last year on Mille Lacs open water, once we switched to flouro our bites went up drastically, and the lone guy who didn't use it only boated 1 fish, compared to 15 on flouro.

All things equal, I don't like flouro, but I do think it helps to get more bites, but just my thoughts.

[eyebjim]

One could reach that conclusion but I,ve had several that were 22 - 25 since which has only been 1 weekend since I switched. My overall catch rate hasn't changed. I'm fishing over night (7pm-7am) in fairly murky water so I'm pretty sure the line visibility isn't a factor. I agree there are situations where the visibility of the line would be a factor but mainly in clear water in day light. It isn't so bad when using a rod and reel but on rattle reels you don't have a rod to flex and flouro isn't too good for streaching.

[NyQuiLlama]

If I do make this switch from mono, I'll likely spool mostly a superbraid and just use a 18" floro leader... for both winter and summer.

So I checked out the "line wall" at Gander in Duluth today and there were many choices for both floro and superbraids. Marketing has conditioned me to buy the Berkeley combo, fireline with a Vanish leader. But I can't afford to field test this stuff.

What is a good superbraid for me to try? Is Fireline better than the other Spectra varieties?

I saw a florocarbon called "P-Line" that looked good. Better than "Vanish?"

I know these line questions have been discussed before, and I'm a fan of the 'Search Function' but I want to know what you guys are doing today, in this fast paced hi-tech world... of... er... fishing.

[skies_and_eyes]

I really like P-line for winter and summer, because of its knot strenght, I had a couple different spools on vanish that had terrible knot strenght

[PerchJerker]

 Originally Posted By: NyQuiLlama

I saw a florocarbon called "P-Line" that looked good. Better than "Vanish?"

P-Line is not flourocarbon, it is a copolymer. It's a combination of different line materials, trying to get the best features of each. In the case of P-Line they describe it as a monofilament line with a flourocarbon coating. I use P-Line on several of my ice fishing reels and like it a lot.

I think superlines and flouros have their place, but I think they are specialized. If I was going to pick just 1 line to fish with I would probably go with a mono or a copoly. I use superlines a lot but there are a lot of situations where I don't use them and don't like them. For example, I almost never jig with them and I almost never ice fish with them. As for flouros, I use them at times but not very much.

I understand wanting to try new lines and experiment with them, and there's some great lines available, but I don't like your idea of "switching from mono to a superbraid with a flouro leader for both winter and summer". Maybe if you try it you'll end up loving it, but it's a HUGE change in the way the line works. Good luck.

[NyQuiLlama]

 Originally Posted By: PerchJerker

it's a HUGE change in the way the line works.

Yeah, this is why I'm trying to look before I leap. It's my understanding that spectra and floro have far less stretch than mono, therefore when I set the hook I won't have to pull as hard. I might set too hard for a while and rip some lips on panfish. However, less stretch also has it's advantages (i.e. sensitivity). Right? Why wouldn't you want to use a superline for jigging?

There's also the question of how each line likes to be knotted. Will I be able to continue to use my go-to "improved clinch"? Or will I need to learn some new alien knot?

Any other concerns with changes in how I fish the line?

[PerchJerker]

I don't use the improved cinch knot with superlines, it is too likely to slip. I mostly use the palomar knot.

Superline doesn't have "less stretch", it has "no stretch". Flouro will stretch a little but not very much. You gain sensitivity but it comes with a price, and you will be giving up some of the advantages of monos or copolys.

Hooksets are not the only thing that changes ---- and personally I think the whole idea of ripping lips off is mostly an old wives tale. Some of the things that are different are:

-superline is limper, this affects casting and wind knots

-superline will cut your fingers to the bone if you pull on it to free a snag. It also cuts transducer cables.

-the feel is different due to less stretch or no stretch, and you may not like how your rods handle that, or how it feels when fish bite

-you have to be more careful playing fish, because you lose the shock absorbtion provided by stretchy mono

-flourocarbon sinks, this can affect livebait rigs and bobber fishing

-superlines are so slick that slip bobber knots will not stay in place on them

-superlines are thinner so your baits will run deeper

These are just some examples, there's more. You really need to experiment to see what you like and what you don't like, that's why I get concerned when you make statements about "switching over" for summer and winter fishing.

I basically use superline for casting for muskies, for casting or contour trolling cranks for walleyes, and for deep water livebait rigging and sometimes for deep water jigging. I have 2 spools of superline for ice fishing but I almost never use them. I basically use mono or a copoly for jigging or bobber fishing and some live bait rigging, and for open water trolling or planer board trolling. I rarely use flouro unless the water is really clear and the bite is really tough. I've found this is what works best for me, in terms of the number of bites I get, the number of fish I hook, and the number of fish I land.

[Schloogs]

PerchJerker, that was very informative, thanks for that...

[NyQuiLlama]

Yeah, thanks. I think that I will rig one of my rods this summer with a fireline/vanish combo, and the other with a copoly. I have two identical 6'6" medium light Fenwicks. I'll learn the palomar knot, and fish and see what I like best for certain things. It sounds like as with most tools, certain lines have ideal times and situations to be used. There is no one "perfect line."