Carbon Monoxide in Portable

[AJ]

Just started using a new Mr. Heater in my portible and I am worried about carbon monoxide. Last night I felt dizzy/sick after leaving the ice (still feel a little sick today). I have two small vents in the top of my Otter portable, but I think I may need more while running the heater (and gas lantern). I had snow piled up around the edges my house. What have others done? Do I need to vent near the floor (open the door a crack) as well as keeping my upper vent open? Anyone else have trouble with this? In the past, I have used a much smaller portable heater without much trouble. Thanks for the responses.

[Steve Foss]

When I ran both my propane heater and propane lantern, the exhaust fumes gave me headaches/stomach upset and made my eyes burn. Just one or the other and it would be OK.

I'd hesitate to tell a guy that a certain amount of ventilation is enough, since if I'm wrong and it's not, REALLY bad things could happen. But I have a Trap II that I seal up pretty nicely, and my 8,000 btu heater doesn't fume me out or put me to sleep.

I was with some guys in a sleeper with two Mr. Heater Buddies going, a third heater and sometimes a camp stove, all burning propane, and the CO detector never went off.

[Surface Tension]

Vents will supply air for your lantern and heater but CO still is building up in your system. Thats the important thing to remember! CO Builds Up In Your Body. Going outside for fresh air only means your not taking in CO at that time. As soon as you start breathing in more CO you continue to build upon the CO all ready taking in. CO disables your bodies ability to absorb oxygen. So if your taking in CO and theres plenty of oxygen you still die because your body is unable to use the oxygen. People have died from CO just from sleeping around a campfire outdoors. Combine CO poisoning with a stove burning oxygen and you speed up the killing effect of CO. When you here about people dieing in there homes from CO poisoning its not because there wasn't any oxygen.


What can you do? Vented stove, air vents, CO detector.

Steve didnt see your reply. Kinda feel like getting 2 CO detectors for a backup.

[This message has been edited by Surface Tension (edited 02-13-2003).]

[the big dipper]

I always open up all the doors and flush all the air out every 1/2 hr or so. You can't get too much fresh air.

[Steve Foss]

Yeah, S.T., backup's nice. Kinda odd, going to sleep in that sleeper and hoping the detector wasn't malfunctioning.

Big Dipper: You're no dip. That's a good idea. It hadn't occurred to me that most of my Trap II fishing includes a tip-up outside, so even though I pack it in pretty tight I'm opening it up couple times an hour to check or service the tip-up.

[AJ]

I should clarify, I have the Mr. Heater Cooker, not the Buddy (which is supposedly better on CO production). Thanks for the input so far. Any other data points out there?

[danny berg]

AJ,
I slept in my portable at last years crappie hole, with the mr buddy and in the middle of the night I woke up with a killer headache, had to unzip the doors at the bottom to get more air flow, But wasn't as bad as the night I spent in sr's house. You saw the stove in my new house... vented is the only way to go... Oh by the way if it gets too cold in Walker this weekend, I will find the cabin and break in.... Hope you left some beer in the fridge..
Let's Talk about a final Sat get together at this years spot, make a day of it bring out the grill cook some elk burger, drink some beer and fish. I am taking the house off Sun the23rd.

Danny

[The Chemist]

I have the cooker. I was using it in a 3x5. I always opened the doors at the tops to allow for good air flow. If I started to feel anything I would open one up further or go outside.

[Pig_sticka]

i always see if my lighter will work every half hour or so. one time my friends wouldn't light and he messed around for about 5 minutes trying to get it to light, i tried mine and it still wouldn't work. i believe we were pretty close to fainting. we kept the door open the rest of the night. those mr heaters do kick out alot of propane fumes. i always fish with the door atleast 1/4 open from now on.

[Guest]

ST, I don't understand your theory. If indeed your body constantly takes in CO wouldn't we all be dead from sitting in traffic, fishing, camping, etc.? I understand that at some point too much CO will shut down your body, but taking in fresh air before your body gets to that point will begin reversing the affects of CO on your body. Does fresh air not flush out CO?

[Guest]

The problem with waiting until you are dizzy is that it might be to late. Because CO can build up in your body you might reach that critical level before you feel dizzy.

CO is usually produced in an environment that does not have enough O2 to burn properly. This can be caused by not enough O2 coming into the fish house, or by a heater/stove that is not clean or burning properly. You may have a good vent, but you still need to make sure your heater/stove is working properly.

I haven't heard of eyes burning as being a symtom of CO poisoning - but of something not burning cleanly. Anyway - not good.

I have one of those Trap Guides with the CO prevention built in. . .the ones that don't quite reach the ice. If I was to build a permanent I would build in a heater with the type of vent on my heat-n-glo. It is completely sealed on the inside so there is no worry of CO.

I know a guy that was having problems with CO in his house. After a lot of testing he determined it was the recessed lighting he installed in his upstairs. He didn't seal and insulate around them properly. When they were turned on they would cause a heat rise draft so strong it would back-draft his furnace - not allowing it to exhaust properly.

kgm

[Guest]

The lack of oxygen will do the same thing. I have had it happen and too thought it was caused by CO. When everything is to tight you are burning up your oxygen supply. Co doesn't allow your red blood cells to carry oxygen. Same effect as no oxygen. Close your house up and put a heater in it and after a period of time it will go out.

[Guest]

Keeter, what ST meant and what juneau was trying to clarify is that it takes a while (even days) for your body to rid itself of CO. What happens is the CO attaches itelf to the red blood cells like juneau was saying. The more CO that is attached to those cells, the less O2 that can attatch to your cells and be transported to various parts of your body. Eventually if you have been building up the CO in your system, your blood will not be able to carry enough oxygen and fainting will result. By getting out of your shack your are allowing your body to take in more air with O2 in it. It will be a temporary fix. When you step back in your house and shut it up, you're adding more CO to the problem. While sitting in traffic you usually are not subject to concentrated CO for an extended period of time, but it could become a problem if you drive your rusty old truck thirty miles to the lake and five miles on the lake breathing exhaust fumes the whole time. Your body is already building up CO while inhaling the exhaust fumes. By the time you notice the effects, it could be too late.

[Surface Tension]

Keeter its not my theory.
If your body is unable to use oxygen because of CO posining then to reverse its effects you have to remove the harmfull levels of CO, just adding air wont help.
About your point about sitting in your car in traffic. Under some conditions you are taking in harmfull levels but for not long enough to have any effect.

[Surface Tension]

flyingfish
you caught me while I was posting. Yes thats what I was saying.

[Guest]

So what is the best way to remove the CO from your body? Is time the only thing that will help your red blood cells, or will that Captain Morgan guy that I always seem to run into on the lake be able to help me out? ;-)

[HardH2O]

"People have died from CO just from sleeping around a campfire outdoors. "

I am having a hard time with this one.
I have never heard of anyone dying in open air next to a camp fire.
Please explain as I may not know about this danger.
Thanks, David

[hvactech]

In my portable I open the vents at the top and I leave the door zipped open a little at the bottom so I get a circulation going and that moves enough fresh air through the shelter so I don't have any problems with CO build up.

[Guest]

I deal with CO everyday as part of my profession. Without getting into chemistry and physics, please follow these tips.
CO is a by product from any type of fuel. Wether its natural gas,propane,wood etc. Any appliance wether its a mr.cooker or rooftop commerical furnace will produce some CO. The appliance is designed to rid the by product either through venting or burning(ventless heaters such as mr.cooker. Unacceptable amounts of CO into the body(30ppm or higher)are produced when the appliance is producing an improper burn or not being vented properly.Under or over gasing,improper fuel/air mix,restricted/plugged oriface, or a hole in the screen on a mr.cooker will result in an improper burn and cause high levels of CO.

Mild symptoms of CO.
*Headache/nausea
*Feeling of lightheaded,dizziness
*Flu like feeling
Strong symptoms of CO
all of above and
*Blurred vision
*Delusions/hallucinations
*Anger/argumentitive

If you or your partner experience these symptoms, immediately GET FRESH AIR.
Oxygen will displace CO in your bloodstream. In severe cases medical attention is needed.
Your body can also build a tolerance to low levels of CO. These are people who smoke or work in inclosed areas(auto shops) with CO. Blood testing can revel these levels. These people are also more prone to skip the mild symptoms and will take higher amounts of CO before they feel sick.
Avoid a deadly accident by having enough ventilation in your portable.
Check your regulator,oriface,hose and screen on your Mr.cooker or similar heater.
The easiest way to tell if your heater is exposing you to CO is to ask yourself if you feel better when not using your heater in your house. Fresh air will rid your body of CO and the symptoms will reappear when using the heater again. If your still unsure,replace your heater. CO is odorless,colorless and tasteless. And can kill you in minutes.

Hope this helps
Good Luck
Be safe.

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[This message has been edited by Derek Johnston (edited 02-13-2003).]

[Guest]

ya know i never feel good after using my gas stove and the symptoms are identical to my wifes even when the stove isn't on.

[Guest]

Good post Derek. Fresh air will rid the body of CO and the symptoms....over time. CO can stay in your blood stream for up to 48 hours. And yes, smoking can cause mild CO poisoning. Smoking just three cigarettes can affect the sharpness of your night vision......I knew that my aviation physiology would come in handy some time.

[Fishn'Lady]

We (me and the hubby and his brother and kids) were up on URL a couple of weeks ago. We were staying out on the ice overnight in our portables. We have identical portable houses and we both use the Mr. Heater/Cooker. We would keep the vent open by the window and the door always open somewhat on the top depending on the temp inside the house. Our CO detector never went off. The hubby's brother would leave the vent closed by the window and the door open quite a bit but his CO detector would keep going off. We brought ours over just to see if his was malfunctioning, well it wasn't. We determined that his Mr. Heater wasn't burning properly and was putting out more CO than usual. They all had headaches and burning eyes. I told them all to either get outside or open that door wide open and the vent also and shut that heater off. He had to run to the local bait store and buy another one so he could have heat for the weekend. He never had a bit a trouble with the new heater. The CO detector saved his and his kids life. Ventilation is the key thing and sometimes just leaving the door open is not enough. If you have another vent in the house I would suggest opening it at least partially as well as the door to get some cross ventilation going. Be safe and good luck.

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Fishn'Lady

[Surface Tension]

Hard H20 I dont know how I could explain it more other then CO poisioning isnt from lack of air. Lack of air combined with CO just kills you faster.
I think most deaths from CO are in the home. A dirty furnace or some device like an exhast fan pulling exhast from the furnace back into the house. Lack of air isnt an issue here.
Yes there are signs from CO poisning but if your asleep...

[AJ]

Thanks for the great information everyone. Happy I started the topic. May I ask a follow up question...

Fishin' Lady and Derek: How would I determine that my Mr. Heater cooker (brand new) was burning properly? I have seen these burn before, and mine looked pretty good. Thanks again.

[Guest]

There really is no way to tell other than the symptoms going away when your not using it. You shouldn't see any floating flame from the screen. Gas, natural or propane turns blue when properly burned. It is difficult to see the color on a Mr.Cooker because of the glow of the screen.

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