state deficit

[steve schmidt]

Do you realize the state deficit could be eliminated shortly IF we hadn't given EXCLUSIVE rights to casino's to another minority group??? Watch Channel 4 out of the cities tonite...I think it is 4 or maybe 5. There will be a segment on that group getting millions of state and federal aid in addition to the millions they make at the casino's.

If the state owned the casinos, even I would go gamble, take a small chance on getting money back knowing the balance was going to build roads, pay for education...you get the idea.

[SuddenlySummer]

you can thank Skip Humphry for this one!

It's not the Indians fault.

If some one said to your. "Please take my money!" I'm betting that you would.

Talk to your legislater. They are the ones writing the checks.

[Bobb-o]

i really dont have that big of a problem with the native americans having casinos. They have bought me bait since i have been at school. I have yet to lose a penny at the casinos up here. I take the free promo money they give me, drink some of their free mountain dew, watch a little sportscenter, and then leave.
So far they have bought me such nice things as:
~new tip-up
~tip-up line
~new hunting jacket
~new ice-fishing rod
~a large selection of open water as well as ice-fishing tackle
~line for my rods
~bait for as long as i have been at school
~new blades for my auger
~etc.

I might actually feel bad if the money earned at the casino was going to pay for the DNR and such. And a question....What happened to the lottery paying for the DNR? I wrote a research paper aboot fish and wildlife departments budget shortfalls for an english class in high school, and only 6.5 cents out of every dollar earned goes to the DNR.

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"They say tuna is brain food, I guess it's cuz it has so much dolphin in it and you know how smart they are"

[Uncle Grump]

Bobb-o

Please explain the "free promo money" you make reference to - this is a new one to me.

Thks

UG

[Steve Foss]

Unc:

Some casinos run promotions where they give you a certain dollar figure's worth of slot tokens to play or credit at tables, etc. It's a way to draw folks in.

I suspect that Bobb-o has won a bit of money that way, and that's what his list is about.

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"I've driven farther before to catch fewer fish . . ."
Steve Foss
[email protected]

[Bobb-o]

yep catfish hit it on the nose. Every Thursday a certain casino in Cass lake has college night, i get $5 in promo coins and a $3 blckjack matchplay. On sundays this same casino gives me $5 cash and a $5 blackjack matchplay, another casino, i dont want to name names but they are one of the big sponsors for the eelpout festival, gives me $5 cash on Tues and a blackajack matchplay. And then to top it off if i come in on Fridays, both these casinos give me an additional $5 cash.

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"They say tuna is brain food, I guess it's cuz it has so much dolphin in it and you know how smart they are"

[Fishbitten]

Considering they were nice enough to share there country with strangers from other nations they had nothing to do with making them inhospitable I think they deserve a few cosinos. P.S. they pay tax on there revunue also provide tons of jobs for non Indians creating a tax base. I think in our colective intrest we should find a way to spend the more than ample money we have productively.

[Ret-ro]

You may want to research the tax situation.
I don't believe they pay any tax.

------------------
Ret-ro!!

[Uncle Grump]

Ah - enlightment!

I've lead a sheltered life - not been the Indian casinos.

Sounds like a regular milk run. More power to ya'll that can take advantage of it.

Thanks

UG

[Guest]

Nice enough to share their land, hmmmmm?

When the Huns conquered the Germanic tribes did they give the germans their own little sovereign nation with AID and PAYOFFS?...nope

When the Romans conquered half of Europe did they give all the little european tribes and princedoms their own little sovereign nations with AID and PAYOFFS?...nope

Come to think of it has any people who have conquered another ever done such a thing as what the founders of this country did for the natives?...hmmm...don't think so.

My point...this is a MELTING POT, that means don't ask for special treatment and favors, assimilate into our society or try your luck elsewhere.

[mistermom]

Hey Chiro!
The only problem with that is that there was no conquering. At least not in MN. It was all done by treaty. If it had been conquering there wouldn't be a 1837 treaty mess.

mm

[Guest]

Hummmmm

They teach my kids in school,that Everyone is to be treated as equal.No race or religion is to be treated any differently than another.

Yet I can't keep fish in the slot limit,but the native americans gill nets catch only the bigger fish,all the small dinks go through the nets.I have seen tubs full of big walleyes and northerns full of maggots,rotting.I asked why not clean them.The answer I got was at least you wont get them. But we all treated as equals. Yup we are.

They can hunt deer with no limits from July to Feb.But we all treated as equals. Yup we are.

They can have loaded and uncased guns in there vehicles while hunting.But we all treated as equals. Yup we are.

They don't need duck stamps,and have no limits on the res.But we all treated as equals. Yup we are.

I have sent the MN DNR many e-mails asking about rules and regualtions for the american indians,because they seem to make their own rules. The replies I got were pretty much to mind my own business.This is my business.But we all treated as equals. Yup we are.

I went to firearms training a couple years back. The instructor told the kids there,that all Minnesotans have to abide by the rules and regs set forth by thr DNR.
I told him I beg to differ with you,not all of us have to,only some of us. He was getting steamed by this time,and said ALL Minnesotans have to abide. I said NOT the native americans. He was really mad,that someone was challenging him,in a battle he knew he was wong about.
I told him that my brother and sister both had gotten fines while riding in the back of a truck with a group of native americans.The Native americans had loaded and uncased guns.My brother and sister had theres unloaded,but not cased they were getting a ride back to our truck. The Indian game warden never even checked anybodys elses guns just the white peoples.But we all treated as equals. Yup we are.

I am entiled to my opinions. I have indian friends. I just don't agree with all the special treatments that they get.

But if someone were to tell me you can have this or do that,I would be the first to do it.

But it is the year 2003 not the 1800's we need some changes.
My ancestors used to hunt,and fish year round,back in the 1800's,don't think we should go back that way.But the Native americans are still living by a treaty that was written in the 1800's. Times change.

I'm done.
Hope I did not tick to many people off.

[steve schmidt]

Wow....maybe I opened an "old can of worms". My intent was not to lambaste the Indian Nation, but to point the finger at the people (I was going to use a more choice word but it would have been "beeped") we elect than gave them casino rights....rights that I dont think were in the old treaty.

My comment was put in the Minnesota site as a reason the state in part is flat broke PLUS I have a selfish motive as well. If and when that is resolved I can put it on here, but for right now I need to remain quiet. Its an eye opener!!!

[irvingdog]

Don't forget, Steve. Mn. sportsmen got greedy and allowed Bud to sell them a kettle of fish. We could have bought them out for a price less than the proceeds of one or two of their yearly gross casino profits. Short sightedness has cost all of us a lifetime of race-based preferential treatment.
Ouch.........

[Fish On]

I think with the walleye thing they should CARRY there kyak maid out of a log to the lake make there own spear out of wood clean there fish with whatever they can create sharp enought to do so cook them over a fire maid with two flint stones in the warm months i have no clue how they are gonna create something to keep the fish from spoiling..........this is how they wanted it THE WAY IT USED TO BE FOR THERE FORFATHERS

VS

hop in our 2003 1 ton full size pickup pulling there 30 foot boat equiped with top notch boughten spears and top notch gill nets going to slay more pounds of fish in one trip then a family of 10 could eat in a lifetime only to sell it for profit let it rott or mabey even eat it .......my point here is if they want it to be the way it use too i would be all for it.....especaily the hunting.....im having visions of native americans throwing rocks at ducks and deer or mabey even a homemade bow and arrow.....nothing against native americans but we should give them what they want THE WAY IT USED TO BE

[Steve Foss]

Chiro:

Please remember your position on this issue when sometime in the course of history to come we get conquered by another nation (it will happen, it always happens, may take 1,000 years). I'm sure that, being this is such a staunch position on your part, that you won't change your mind if we're ever put under the yoke of another power. But no doubt, as you say, you'll be willing assimilate into their society or try your luck elsewhere.

Nope, in the course of history, few nations have taken an enlightened or generous approach to the nations they've conquered. Of course, the examples you use are all REALLY old. In more recent times, England, Canada and the United States have tried to some degree to be fair to the people whose land they used force to take. Have they succeeded? There are strong arguments for both positions. The government's treaty relationship with Indian tribes is one such acknowledgement that Native Americans were NATIVE to this land, and were here before us, and should have rights that we don't. Like it or not, that is the position of our government, a government elected by you.

And casinos have injected economic life into reservations that were dying for lack of it. A number of tribes are using that revenue to pull themselves back up and do good work for their people.

Maybe you, as a member of a nation of conquering heroes, don't care that Indian people live or die. But they do.

[This message has been edited by stfcatfish (edited 02-14-2003).]

[almosthaddabite]

"They can hunt deer with no limits from July to Feb.But we all treated as equals. Yup we are.

They can have loaded and uncased guns in there vehicles while hunting.But we all treated as equals. Yup we are.

They don't need duck stamps,and have no limits on the res.But we all treated as equals. Yup we are."

Bigfoot, does this apply to all of Minnesota or just the reservation? Some Reservations are sovereign nations and have their own game laws.

You have never read, heard tell or seen wanton waste by a non Indian?

There was pelnty of opportunity for the State to get out of the Mille Lac mess. However, they wanted all or none.

Bigfoot I respect your opinion and I know this is a very sensitive subject by being fair you add credibitlty to your opinion.

[Guest]

stfcatfish,
I agree with a lot that you say but, I don't think it will take a thousand years for this country to fall. My point was that the very situation we are discussing is leading to our downfall. We let whining minority groups (minority not having anything to do with skin color or race, a group of people seeking differentiation from the majority for whatever reason) set the standards.
Yes, I have Native American friends as well, hard to live in Northern MN and not have. We have animated discussions to say the least! Equality means equality!
I George Washington's farewell address he left us with a warning that seems to be coming to fruition as we live and breath today, He warned us against permanent alliances with foreign powers, large public debt, a large military establishment, and the will and power of small and deceitful minorities who would try to control and change the government.

Boy did I get off the subject a little.

Who says outdoorsman can't have intellectual discussions without throwing beer cans?

[Lowe]

You should see the dents in my computer screen!

[Guest]

I too think that if the native americans want to use the rights that their ancestors had agreed to.More power to them,if they use homade stick and string bows,birch bark canoes,homade fish traps,you get the point.

But the more I think about it,I guess times have changed for us as well. We use modern guns ,bows, boats,electronics,ect.

But then again we have strict regs that pevent the over harvest of fish and game. And we restock the lakes with fish,with money raied from our fishing licences.

So really its 6 to one and a half a dozen to the other.Guess we are EQUAL.

Sorry to stir the pot.

[Guest]

Just thought a little more.
We gave the indians a small chunk of thier land back right??

We gave them land called reservations,why the heck are we living on the land we gave back to THEM. I guess they were right,white man speak with forked tongue.

[Guest]

We took thier land and then gave it back as reservations correct???

Why the heck are we still on thier land. Guess the white man does speak with forked tongue.

[upnorth]

I aggree that the laws that are in place today concerning Native Americans are old and outdated. These laws were made during times of plenty and much lower population density. That and the spearing and netting was done from a birch bark canoe using a lit torch for light.

They Native Amercans claim it is there old ways that they want to preserve and yet they are out there in new boats with outboard motors and high powered spotlights. I don't believe that is the spiritual essence of the old ways.

My belief on the reservations is that they were set aside so that the Native Americans would have a place to live and have sustanance. I think in some cases the hunting and fishing is over done because they can not for sustaining their lives.

I don't disagree with casinos. If they help them get on their feet and off the government aid. And yes they do help local economies and give jobs to workers of all race. But it is hard to see them advertise discrimination in the paper and get away with it. Just ain't right in the US today