Grouse Gun

[Surface Tension]

I can load 410 up to 3/4 oz at 1275 fps. I can load 12 gauge down to 7/8th oz at 1275. Not a big difference is there. So whats the advantage of going with a 12 gauge?

For one I can use the same 12 gauge for everything, grouse to turkey. I can do this because of the wide range of loads to choose from.

Being proficient with that same shotgun where identifying target, determining if the shot is safe to take, shouldering the shotgun, and sight picture all takes place in a matter of a couple seconds when grouse hunting.

The smaller the bore the longer the shot string. The longer the shot string the less down range energy you have.

I don't think you can argue that the 12 gauge is capable of superior patterns over 410, 28, 20, and 16 gauge. A tighter pattern will also hold its long range effectiveness better then an open pattern, thats not a big deal hunting grouse in close quarters where you want on open pattern.

What is a plus is that open patter will hold more pellet count if you choose to.

So if I have loads available to choose from in 20, 16, & 12 gauge that identically match as far as FPS, shot weight & size wheres the "Overkill" you speak of? There isn't overkill unless you choose a load above and beyond whats needed to effectively kill what your hunting. So I could choose a load in any gauge and produce overkill. What you will have is better patterning with the 12 gauge. If throwing lead in a better group is overkill then so be it.

Having said that my choice for a grouse gun is an 12 gauge SKB model XL900 semi auto. 22" barrel and light weight its a perfect grouse gun for me and its also proven to me to be an excellent choice for duck, pheasant, and turkey. They're rare so thats not much help but if I found something like the 1187 Upland Special with a 23" barrel I'd jump on it.

If your going to go with a second shotgun you should at least stay with the same type action.

Switching over from pump to semi auto takes time to adjust. Seconds shots at grouse are common and need to come quick, if your fumbling, your target will be gone. I like 4 shots in the mag. More then once you'll get into a covey, if your quick about it you'll have emptied the gun and have a few birds down.

[Shack]

Remington 1100 semi auto 12 Ga!

I have had great luck with this gun. On the contrary side, I use a longer 30" field barrel. I do notice I do hit some brush with barrel, but quickly adapted to using longer barrel. I also very my loads. Hate to say it, but steel sucks for grouse, lead is the only way to go. I load a couple of six's and then a four. In thick brush, one has to be quick and powerful. Eight shot is for target, I leave it at home. Most time your shot is going threw brush debris and power keeps it on course. Plus the only way to get 2 to three shots off on a grouse is with a semi-auto. That’s way I like a 4 for that hail marry long shot if I miss on first two. Pump guns would never get me out that far. I used them for years.

Another nice thing about my 1100, is during deer season I stay local. It is shot gun and slug only in this area. I put my rifled slug barrel on and scope. After a little trial and error, it is deadly accurate between 75-140 yards.

It is truly an all around good gun. Take care of it well and it never fails. Clean, clean, clean!

[fisher]

Im looking for a 28g side-by-side for a grouse and wood cock gun I dont know I like the small bore. the new marlin L.C. smith that would be a nice gun. maybe next year

[Bullwinkle]

This may sound crazy but I shoot a Remington 870 Youth 20g. I love how light it is and when I'm in the aspen and poplar it is short enough that I can usually swing the gun without hitting trees in the close quarters. I'm also quite sure that a big guy like myself looks awfully funny carrying such a small gun around but I'll tell you what.....the grouse don't laugh and taste awfully good over some wild rice! Good luck and knock'em dead next weekend.

[gspman]

fisher,

A 28 gauge would be a very nice grouse gun. Someday I hope to have one too.

gspman

[cribbageboy]

I dont think that i could agree with you more Bullwinkle. Im about 6 foot 2 inches tall and hoverin' around 200 pounds, And i am more than happy to use a 410 youth when im out there in the thick aspens. The gun is about 35 inches long from butt to muzzle and makes it extremely easy to pop off quick shots in dense trees.

I hunt up in central Itasca county on public land, and the hunters can get pretty thick. Most of the hunters are lazy, so slipping into the thick woods to kick up some ruffies that were previously sitting on roads is my favorite tactic. Like bullwinkle, i too look quite silly carrying around such a weapon, but i will be willing to bet that i can walk about twice as far as most of you 12 gauger's. Due to low recoil i can prolly put out about twice as many shots as well.

[uplander]

You are on cribbageboy! Let's go this weekend and see who walks further and shoots more 12 guage and all...

Uplander

[cribbageboy]

There is absolutly no contest. It is simply logic that the more wieght that you carry, the more energy used. As far as recoil goes, I still have on the factory made gun butt, so if a custom butt is added to a 12 gauge, it evens out the playing field. If i polled 100 grouse hunters who carry 12 gauge's, 99 of them would wish that their shotgun would wiegh less, and have less recoil. Im not saying that this weapon is the best for all of grouse hunting, but it IS the best weapon for the close quarters shooting that i do, Hands Down.

[uplander]

Well then I'm the one out of a hundred, i don't think the 2 lbs. make that much of a difference.....and the recoil ......c'mon if you feel that in the heat of the hunt...well, that's all I'm saying on that....How far you can walk has to do with what kind of shape you're in not how heavy your gun is....Sure, my arms might be a little more sore than the 410'rs.but he's not going to out walk me or out shoot me physics or no........unless he's physically and mentally tougher than me!

[cribbageboy]

So you are trying to tell me that you LIKE having a gun thats heavier and bigger just so you can throw your lead out a little further before it begins its spread. In my years of Grouse hunting, i wouldn't substitute comfortabilty for distance. It simply makes no sense.

[uplander]

No. What I'm saying is....I shoot what I shoot...It does not make me uncomfortable,and I don't think someone is going to out walk me or get thier gun up faster and be able to take more shots in a day than me just because they carry a 410 or a 20 or a 28 or a 16 or an M16 for that matter.It's simply a matter of choice. And like I said before, I'm ready! let's get out in the woods and chase some grouse and I'll prove it......Do you wan't to use your dog or mine?......This is not some angry challenge by the way I just love to hunt grouse, I've been doing it for 25 years,I've used a variety of guages including the 410.....and even with the weight factor it's not the gun I choose....Lighter is not always better!!! Find a gun you are comfortable with and stand by it! I don't think switching to a lighter guage gun makes you a better hunter with the ability to walk further and shoot faster...That's all up to the individual. If you find yourself not getting shots off, try a lighter guage by all means, but it's not always the cure...Let's go hunting.........Uplander

[cribbageboy]

What i am saying as that i cant possibly imagine a heavier gun being more comfortable, but if you feel more comfortable shooting a 12 i guess that is your opinion. Like you said, pick a gun and stand behind it. Mine is a 410, and i stand by it.

[echotrail]

I just got back from grouse hunting and I was using an old Western Arms Corp. double barrel 16 ga. that my Uncle gave me many years ago. It's light, fun to use and breaks down fast for cleaning.

[2thepointsetters]

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but i will be willing to bet that i can walk about twice as far as most of you 12 gauger's. Due to low recoil i can prolly put out about twice as many shots as well.

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Wow, I'll take that bet, I'll even use my 8.5 pound BPS on the walk and carry a first aid kit for your blisters when you try to stay with me.

[cribbageboy]

Either you guys completly miss interpreted me, or your ego's are the size of your 12 gauges. Let me rephrase this. I bet you can carry a 410 about twice as far as a 12 gauge without getting tired. Now i know that they have made ultra light 12's but you get the point. It has NOTHING to do with how strong or fit you are. If you are carrying less, you are working less. Work, and hunting should never be used in the same sentence, and for that, i carry a 410. If you can carry and shoot a 12 gauge for 7 hours and not get uncomfortable (which im sure there are some of you out there) then more power to ya. My earlier comment was simply a statement about gun weight and was not ment to offend anyone.

[2thepointsetters]

Post deleted by 2thepointsetters (forget it, talk about a hijacked topic )

[cribbageboy]

You must have forgotten to read my original statement. My 410 weights 2.5 lbs and is just a hair over 35 inches from butt to muzzle. Try and find a 12 gauge that is no more than 3.5. And if you do, it either costs a lot, or would send you cheek for a ride, rendering it extremely undesirable. As for the clean shot theory. I have taken numerious grouse in my life, and have never had a non-clean kill. I would like to ask you a simple question. What does a 12 gauge have, that a 410 doesnt, besides more power since power is not needed for an animal smaller than a chicken?

[brassman]

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This may sound crazy but I shoot a Remington 870 Youth 20g. I love how light it is and when I'm in the aspen and poplar it is short enough that I can usually swing the gun without hitting trees in the close quarters. I'm also quite sure that a big guy like myself looks awfully funny carrying such a small gun around but I'll tell you what.....the grouse don't laugh and taste awfully good over some wild rice! Good luck and knock'em dead next weekend.

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Thats my logic too, nice and light but fast on reloads, my goto gun. the shorter length allows for more swing the thick stuff.

[boatfixer]

Absolutely, positively, the best grouse gun is the one you are comfortable with. I have a Stevens .410 dbl, that I wish was big enough for every thing I hunt. Out of all the guns I own, this one just feels the best.

Often times, IMO, people put too much emphasis on the gauge or caliber as to "what the best". For me, it's confidence in what I shoot. Don't tell me a .410 won't do the job, and don't tell me a 12g is too big. I've shot many grouse with both. I've also carried a 12g all day out west pheasant hunting, yea, it gets heavy, but I love hunting enough to know it's part of the game. Trust me, that bird does'nt care where the gun came from or how much it cost.

So if you want to carry a heavy 12 or a pea shootin' .410, and love to hunt, you're welcome to hunt with me anytime!

[uplander]

Amen Boatfixer!....When we going!

[cribbageboy]

Absolutly true!!!!

[JIGGIN']

I have a preference for a Beretta AL 390 in 20 ga. I have shot this gun for 10 years now at grouse and it is dialed in for me.

[MNice]

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I have a preference for a Beretta AL 390 in 20 ga. I have shot this gun for 10 years now at grouse and it is dialed in for me.

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Ahh yes, I have an AL 390 in 12 ga. and I would LOVE to find a 20.

[Grant Pearson]

I started grouse hunting with an old H&R single shot .410. I shot my first grouse, and first limit of grouse with it. I learned to hunt with that gun and had to "master" shooting it before I was "able" to move on to anything else. When it comes to grouse hunting though, I prefer my 100 special field in 12 ga. I prefer it for a few reasons. 1. I like having a second shot available for coveys. 2. The cover I hunt grouse in at my cabin borders a swamp and therefore have a very good chance at seeing a duck or two. Also, it's the gun that I feel comfortable shooting and can go all day hunting with it. Cribbageboy, I know and understand you train of thought, but will take my heavier gun over my .410 any day and will still be shooting just as well at the end of the day. And no, my 12 ga. doesn't have a recoil pad on it.

[DRH1175]

I have a rem 1100 that used to be my grouse gun. Used to be because this weekend I brang my Benelli 12ga with me and thought I would try the Cylinder bore choke. Dand what a difference. Nice big pattern and with the extra shot in the 12ga plenty full. I shot a grouse at 10 yards that I thought would be burger and hardly a pellet in the breast. My suggestions would be for a short quick 12ga with an open choke.