Tell the CO's to take a hike, legally...

[Guest]

What a crock!

Safe haven for abuse is what they may have created by this legal president.

Might as well send a invite to all the criminals to set up shop on the ice for the winter. See you local crack ice house for details.

What a bunch of $*%#!!

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"Ed on the Red"
Backwater Guiding Service
[email protected]
fishingminnesota.com/ed-on-the-red/

[This message has been edited by Backwater Eddy (edited 01-03-2002).]

[Guest]

Thanks Perch Jerker! I'm printing a copy for my fishhouse I always thought that there was a reasonable expectation of privacy in fishhouses. Finally a decision in favor for us citizens!

[Bobcatbeej]

Of course an answer like that is an admission of guilt and will result in apprehension which will result in search incident to arrest so you're pretty much screwed then...

[The Chemist]

The problem I have w/ CO's that immediately open the door is that maybe you're goin' to the bathroom/ sleeping whatever. Coming up and knocking and simultaneously opening the door is too say the least rude. It's even worse when it's not a CO and all the person does is open the door. Had this happen to me at about 7:00 in the morning, had been in the house all night fishin and boom some guy is askin me how the fishing is and I'm still asleep.

[Dave]

Personally, I think all the "rights" people have are getting kind of stretched a bit. I can relate to the 7am wake-up call or doing something personal in the ice house and being surprised, however. Where does it end.

[Guest]

Bobcat, you obviously haven't been abused by the unbelievable discretion CO's have. I had one incident where the CO did the knock and walk to me and immediately asked me to step out of the house, and he walked in and inspected everything. I felt as if I was under arrest for fishing and trying to enjoy my time alone. That upset me very much and I wasn't about to get cited for disorderly conduct or something ridiculous against the officer.

I have also had several experiences where the CO knocked and waited for an answer and for me to open the door. Those have been enjoyable experiences.

I follow all of the laws. I guess my first reaction to this new law came from my professional line of work in criminal defense.

[Guest]

Well first of all, I might say that the scenario perch jerker gave is not quite accurate. If a CO or any law enforcement agent has reason to believe there is a crime in progress, that if not investigated at that time will disapear, than they may enter without a search warrant. The law may say otherwise, but rest assured there are ways of writing reports to get around that loophole.

Second, I'm hoping that people on here, don't have a problem with CO's coming into houses without a search warrant, as that is insane. We or most of us are all honest and respectful sportsmen, and the CO is just doing their job. They are doing a mostly thankless job, to protect our rights as sportsmen. If we take away their right to investigate illegal activities, than we compromise our natural resources.

The case that recently brought on the scenario was about two guys in Faribault, smoking crack, in a house and fishing illegally. The CO knocked and opened, saw them dumping drugs down the hole, and some weasle lawyer got them off, because it's an invasion of privacy. I love my rights, and don't want to give any of them up, and won't without a fight. But, when there's people like this out there, I don't feel my rights are violated when a CO stops to check me.

If anyone on this site agrees that the outcome of the case above was correct, that these guys should've got off, then you are probably on the wrong site.

GOOD LUCK!!!!
Rusty

[Skeets]

Well said Rusty!
I agree with your post 100%!
I have never had a problem with being checked by a CO. I do not break the laws or bend them in any way.
I just plain enjoy ice fishing...period.
I truely think that if there were more honest people out there, there would not be so many people complaining about law enforcement.
Just think, then we could tell all lawyers to take a hike instead of the CO's trying to do their job.

Skeets

[Guest]

Couldn't the DNR place a condition on the fish house license saying that by placing the license on your fish house you are consenting to searches related to fishing law? If you want to fish on public waters you need to consent to searches.

You either have the choice of putting the license on your house and having it searched, or don't and getting tagged for that.

Just a thought.

[BLACKJACK]

Tis a fine line between the right to privacy and enforcing the law. Why are we fighting in Afganistan (sp) right now? To protect our freedom(s).

Sometimes I think that law enforcement has too many laws in written in their favor - its gets to the point that where some of our basic freedoms are trampled on. Occasionally a few scoflaws will get away but I'd rather see that than give the cops the ability to search you at will. Set up more roadblocks on people coming off the lake, check limits then, publicize the results, let people know that they have a good chance of getting checked, that will stop overlimits.

[Guest]

10-4 Rusty!

They do random search's and no one person is being targeted, unless there is cause to do so.

I thought by the act of purchasing a ice house permit you were agreeing to said search's in accordance to the law?

Simple, obey the law and that knock should not send you into too much of a panic attack when it comes.

[The Chemist]

I don't have a single problem with having my fish house searched. But I do believe that the CO shouldn't just open the door as they're knocking. I'm not out there breaking the laws. I consider it to be common courtesy to wait for an invitation to enter. Now on the other hand if I were to tell them to wait a couple of minutes w/out explaination then I thinkn that is wrong.

[Perch Jerker]

I knew I would get this kind of response that some hate it and others love it. Personally, I think it is great. I don't believe in giving the LEO's, CO's, or any other Govt agency any more power than what is listed in the Bill of Rights/Constitution. A CO has more rights to invasion of privacy than any other 'officer', and because of this I say bring them back on their side of the 4th Amendment.
The whole 'it's on public land so they can' theory is so weak it's pathetic. I drive on 'public' roads, but can the law search my car for no reason without my consent? NO WAY! Can they search my RV when I stop to take a leak at a 'public' rest area? NO WAY! So what gives them the right to search my ice house? I sure as heck don't give it to them.
I follow the rules and have never even gotten a warning when I have been out hunting & fishing, and I sure as heck dont do anything with controled substances. However, when they come to check on me they can keep on walking because their rights shall NOT infringe upon mine as long as I am a citizen of the United States and protected by her Constitution.

"If someone is willing to give up security for freedom, they deserve neither." Benjamin Franklin (Thanks SpikeRoberts for the correction)

[This message has been edited by Perch Jerker (edited 01-03-2002).]

[LMITOUT]

Thumbs up Blackjack.

It is getting bad to a point where the majority of us are losing a lot of freedoms due to the actions of a small percentage of the population. We are actually the ones being punished, not the bad guys.

They (the CO's) shouldn't come barging into a fish shelter without asking AND RECEIVING permission to do so. I don't hear about police knocking down your front door to see if you are doing something illegal without a reasonable cause. If a CO asked and I said "no", then I would think he/she would have reason to come in to see why I said no.

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hook'm and cook'm

[SpikeRoberts]

"If someone is willing to give up security for freedom, they deserve neither." Thomas Jefferson

I believe this quote is properly attributed to Benjamin Franklin. Nonetheless, you point is well taken Perchjerker.

[Guest]

Here's a question for everyone on here. Have you ever been truly searched by a CO? Have they went through your ice house and checked it top to bottom? My guess is most will say no. I know I've never been searched. If you were searched, where was it??

I agree that CO's and any LEO's should be courteous, and not just barge in, but when a CO knocks, the proper response should be "come on in" and not "Get the hell out government official, unless you've got a search warrant!!" If you have nothing to hide, why not let them in. I've gotten a lot of good tips from CO's by talking to them. Granted, there may be a few CO's and LEO's who are dinks, but they are in the minority. If you treat them honestly, and with respect for them and the law, they will treat you with the same respect. However, you will not win if you say, "Get the hell out".

CO's and LEO's are not the problem, nor is the government. The problem is the government is made to take care of public resources, because some people can't control their greedy selves, and do things illegally. I deer hunt up in deliverence country, and you couldn't pay me to be a CO up there, because they must be absolutely swamped.

GOOD LUCK!!!!
Rusty

[Guest]

I think the point is if a CO opens your door while you the got the wifes ankles up in the air without knocking is that invasion of privacy? Whats the deal with the "no inside locks" on a fish house law? If a CO cant open your door when he wants to then why do we still have that law? Or do we have that law still? I do know that my laywer has said that a CO cannot enter your boat without permisson. But would that apply to a fish house too? Are laywers giving us factual information? I dont have anything to hide when fishing or hunting.But if a Co needs permission to enter and thats what the law sates then they have to follow the rules too as we do. The search and seizure laws change so much, Rusty can you dig up the most recent accurate info and see what you can find? Thanks D-man P.S i hope were not trying to bash police or CO's here but just find out whats legal and not legal.....

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MILLE LACS AREA GUIDE SERVICE
651-271-5459 http://fishingminnesota.com/millelacsguide/

[curt quesnell]

I would not be lead to believe that the
COs wings have been clipped. They can still
walk right in and write you a ticket if you
are in violation. These are laws that are
solidly on the books and there should be
no question in anyones mind about it.

If they come in and you are manufacturing
drugs, or other illegal stuff then lawyers
will get involved and it could work out
differently. This is certainly sad but true.

The good news is game violators can still
be caught and law abiding citizens still have
nothing to worry about other than a surprise
visit from the gamewarden who will find you
have nothing to hide.

Curt Quesnell

[cwmn]

I'M GLAD TO SEE IT'S SO IMPORTANT TO PROTECT THE RIGHTS OF PEOPLE WHO USE USE ELLIGAL DRUGS, POSSIBLY SELLING THEM TO KIDS, AND PEOPLE WHO ABUSE THE FISHING LAWS AND TAKE MORE THAN THIER FAIR SHARE.

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Have a good one!
CWMN

[Guest]

D-man, I will certainly see what I can dig up on the issue. I know I recently read an article in Outdoor News, I'll try to find that issue. I will also do some digging at work and see what I can find.

Everyone, I will try to find and give all of the "Facts", and not the lawyers "Opinions", because oftentimes, they are not the same.

GOOD LUCK!!
Rusty

[Valv]

Rusty, you are THE MAN....

I met 2 DNR officers 3 evenings ago on Shields, they were very, very polite. They introduced themselves (it was dark), asked me how's things were goiing and I offered to show my empty bucket. When they were leaving I let them know I am happy they come around and check things are ok.

Remember crooks have something to hide, good people don't. Beloney with invasion of privacy, that's a terminology invented by scum lawyers to get money.

I met and had many encounters with law officers from this and other countries, and I never had a problem, all my life....

That was my 2 cents.

Val

[Borch]

I have been thoroughly searched on two occassions. Both were on Mille Lacs probably 8-10 years ago. Let me start out by stating that these stituations were not typical of my interactions with COs.

One was during fall fishing. The CO announced that he was DNR as his feet hit the floor of our boat. We were still 4-5 feet from the dock at the time. My buddy told him that if he broke anything he bought it. His response was I don't have to buy anything and he tore through the entire boat looking for walleyes over the slot or over our limit. We were legal, got his badge number and he left without apology and we got none from his supervisor either when my buddy called.

The second was ice fishing the following winter. A snowmobile raced up to my portable house(at what sounded like 70 MPH), and the CO pounded on my door(notice I didn't say knocked). He hit the door so hard the spring loaded door latch flipped the wrong way locking me in the fishhouse as he yanked on the door yelling at me to open it. I told him I didn't have any locks inside to and to check the latch. He flipped it and ran in. Going through everything I had in the house and yelling at me for "locking the door". I kept reminding him that he flipped the latch from the outside when he pounded on my door. Last thing he said as he left was I was lucky he didn't write me up for locking the fishhouse door. I kept thinking what's his problem. Is he on something?

It's no wonder they called the COs on Mille Lacs Cowboys back then. It's the only place I've ever had a complaint about a CO. Since then I've been checked and they have been OK but not as polite as other officers I've talked to else where.

I've got no problem with them coming into my boat or fishhouse as I don't intentionally break the law. Just wish to be treated respectfully that's all. I'd rather they caught those breaking the law because they make us look bad. Just like any profess

[Perch Jerker]

A lawyer friend sent me a tasty tidbit of info today. Here is the info:

CO: Knock Knock.
Fisherman: Who is it?
CO: DNR.
Fisherman: Umm, can you come back later (I'm fishing 12 lines and making crystal meth right now).
CO: Sure I can't come in?
Fisherman: Yup.
CO: OK, have a nice day!

http://www.minnlawyer.com/story.asp?storyid=1857

[Guest]

I have problems with the searching powers CO's have. There is an presumption of guilt in the gestapo process of having your "papers" checked. If I have been observed breaking laws than by all means charge me. Same as when operating a motor vehicle etc. The argument that if you are doing no wrong what harm is bull roar. Since I am doing no harm at midnight sleeping fast in my bed, feel free to knock on my door and check my home, I have nothing to hide. I take offense to having my property and person searched with no probable cause.

We have given the fisheries and wildlife boys a little to much power in the searching arena. It is to easy to stand at the dock and check boats by profiling than to apply valid law enforcement techniques.
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Kevin Neve's Devils Lake Guide Service
fishingminnesota.com/kevin-neve-guiding/
e-mail: [email protected]
Phone: 701-473-5411 or 701-351-4989
Minnewaukan ND

[This message has been edited by kevin neve (edited 01-07-2002).]

[latz333]

I have a problem with the comparison of the CO's and the gestapo. Last time I checked, the CO's did not take law abiding citizens and drag them out of a house and shoot them in the head because they did not like the color of the fish house they were in.

If you do not break the law you have nothing to worry about.

If you are breaking the law you do.