Bear Hounds in Mn

[nolte]

Sam

I'm glad I could answer a few questions for you. I totally agree with you that a few slob hunters can ruin the image for everybody. In our area we know the other hound groups and try very hard to avoid areas where there will be conflicts. We've also had issues with other groups of hunters coming in and running all over the place, making a bad name for everyone. It's very frustrating when you've put so much effort in to do it right. I think you underestimate the abilities of your MN houndsmen. They've had some experience hunting coon, coyotes, and bobcats and would be able to do pretty well with bear. In fact there are quite a few that come to WI in the summer to run, since there isn't a season in MN.

I think your idea of giving the first three weeks to the sitter and the later weeks to dog hunters is a very good one. That way everyone would be able to get a chance. One way we have tried to reduce conflicts with deer hunters is to only run in the mornings in the fall. The majority of bowhunters around us usually hunt in the evenings, because early in the fall deer movement is usually limited to the last few hours of daylight. Granted the deer move in the early hours too, but it's usually going back to where they bed. Bowhunters seem prefer to hunt that night movement when they are coming out to feed. For this reason we try to stay away and give these guys a better chance to enjoy their hunt. We've even went so far as to wait till after dark to bait some of our baits, because bowhunters have been hunting fairly close. That seems to go a long way hunter relations.

One thing that I always see is that different sporting/outdoor groups seem to get hung up on butting heads on issues because they think it will take away from their own. Instead of squabbling over small issues, we'd be much better off giving as many hunting/fishing opportunites as we can. Having a solid and growing base of people interested in outdoor activities(whatever that might be), makes our efforts to keep our hunting/fishing heritages strong.

Good luck to you this fall and I hope you get a crack at that big boar, only a few days left to wait.

[Longline]

I am thinking a good way to get more people to hunt would be to lower the price of the out of state license. If people didn't have to pay close to $200 to come hunt in MN I think that more people would come from out of state and buy those extra license. Or they could do a earn a tag.

[woodview]

I just don't see any way to avoid trespass issues.

That right there is the end all for me personally.

How are they in Wisconsin out of curiousity when it comes to tresspass issues?

Ever problems with hounds around someone's bait site?

Good find on the interest group posting. I didn't even realize those groups existed.

To play devils advocate against myself (even though I'd still vote no)...

I think that a guy who puts out a bad spread of deeks won't have much luck with ducks, a pointer that won't hold point will be followed by a hunter cursing because of grouse bumped 40 yards to far, etc. I think the 'fairness' issue or cheating aspect is greatly offset by devotion and skill put into the dogs and the hunt.

Really isn't the point/joy of a hunt not really so much about the kill as it is about the hunt and work that puts success within range? The idea that you just shoot the thing out of a tree loses a little impact when I look at it that way.

I'd imagine there's more harm done from deer hunters who don't use their guns profiently than bears being run (plus I'm assuming that the clean kill rate on a treed bear has to be pretty near %100).

What might sway me a bit towards accepting it...

*A different season than baiters.

*Intelligent zoning - Probably a huge hassle to try micromanaging for it but maybe something above such and such a highway that would limit it farther north and in areas that would greatly reduced the probability of trespass issues. There are some good bear populations below duluth that I'd see houndsmen hunting where there's simply too much private land and you'd definately have problems.

I can respect the tradition and love of the hunt that the couple of houndsmen I've talked with show.

To be honest I'm kind of sick of the 'dirty' tag that seems to be placed on hunters in general by so much of our society. I'm also pretty sure that I shot a look at the kid who first told me he hunted bear with hounds that exact feeling I so dislike.

If it were legalized and I ran across a group hunting I'd probably talk with them and find it interesting even though it might not be for me.

I just don't think you could keep them off private land and I know how I'd feel having a pack roll through while on stand, whether it's for bear or deer.

[Boar]

Wheeew, I finally got through to the end. What a interesting topic. Lots of pros an cons. No doubt that if hound hunting in MN ocurres, there will be alot of happy an unhappy hunters in the state. But ya know what if it dose? We get to deal with one of the greatest pleasures in the country. FREEDOM OF CHOICE!!! Why would another hunter want to oppose another hunters choice on how they desire to experience the outdoors. there are alot of people out that want to take away our hunting rights the way it is, but we [PoorWordUsage] an moan within are hunting society instead of supporting each other. "United we stand, Divided we fall" I support any hunting in MN, even if I dont agree with it. MY two cents. Later boar

[Neiko]

You are right Boar! FREEDOM OF CHOICE! Freedom to shoot that no good trespassing bear hound/wolf bait if he comes on my property.

[bearplott]

So when a berry picker, deer hunter, grouse hunter, atver or fisherman "unknowingly" crosses onto your land you want the right to shoot them as well?

[Neiko]

That is why I have "Trespassers will be shot and survivors will be shot again" signs on my property.

[nolte]

Neiko

I got this from the MN DNR regulations book, page 11 on exceptions to the trespass law. I think your comments might be a little hasty before you knew all of the regulations. Your entitled to your have your opinions on the matter, but I'm also allowed to strongly disagree with them. I saw the smiley face in your post but after a friend had his hunting dog shot (on land where he had permission), I don't find it very amusing.

FYI

Exceptions

• A person on foot may, without permission, enter land that is not

posted to retrieve a wounded animal that was lawfully shot, but

may not remain on the land after being told to leave.

• A person on foot may, without permission, enter private land

without a firearm to retrieve a hunting dog. After retrieving the

dog, the person must immediately leave the premises. This exception

does not au tho rize the taking of the wild animal.

Here is some other information pertaining to dogs

Dogs Pursuing Big Game

No persons may allow their dog to chase or kill big game.

Between January 1 and July 14 a dog that is observed wounding,

killing, or pursuing in a way that endangers big game may be killed

by any person. A peace officer or conservation officer may kill a dog

that endangers big game at any time of the year. The officer or person

is not liable for damages for killing the dog.

Important: Other hunting seasons are open before, during,

and after the deer season. Many hunters use dogs to hunt

upland game, wa ter fowl, rabbits, raccoons, foxes, and coyotes.

Dogs may not be shot during fall hunting seasons, even if seen

pursuing big game, except by a conservation or peace officer.

[Neiko]

Nolte, as long as you follow this law "No persons may allow their dog to chase or kill big game. " there won't be a problem.

As for

"• A person on foot may, without permission, enter land that is not

posted to retrieve a wounded animal that was lawfully shot, but

may not remain on the land after being told to leave. "

My land is legally posted every 500 ft and signed every year.

As for

"• A person on foot may, without permission, enter private land

without a firearm to retrieve a hunting dog. After retrieving the

dog, the person must immediately leave the premises. This exception

does not au tho rize the taking of the wild animal. "

I hope you get there before I do.

[nolte]

Neiko

Grandps always told me there are two kinds of people. Those that enjoy life, and those that worry about it. From the sounds of it you are leaning towards the latter.

I probably won't be able to beat you to the dogs because of the guard towers and razor wire getting in my way. So do what you've got to do, but don't be surprised when the state authorities hand down the consequences.

Good Luck in your Bear Hunt.

[bearplott]

Read the law Neiko. It says, unless you are a conservation or peace officer it is unlawful to shoot a dog pursuing big game from July 15 until January 1. If you do, you will be held liable for damages.

[Neiko]

Nolte you obviously don't know me. I am the last person to worry about life.

I know the laws quite well and abide by them. It is a system and you have to know how to play the game by the rules. That is what makes it fun.

"347.03. Dogs may be killed

Any owner or caretaker may kill any dog found chasing, injuring, or worrying sheep or other livestock or poultry owned by or in care of such owner or caretaker, on lands or premises owned or controlled by the owner or caretaker, and any owner or caretaker of sheep may kill any dog found on the owner's or caretaker's premises where sheep are kept, not under human restraint or control."

Anyone have any sheep for sale? I only need 1.

[tealitup]

I actually got a laugh about that one -can I ask what else your going to use the sheep for..JUST KIDDING

.... Come on.. your telling me if I am out hunting and my dog gets away and I try to find him your going to do something?

I think your just having fun posting... You did make me laugh

[Neiko]

Someone started citing laws so I merely was playing there game showing there are legal ways to take care of the problem. All I am saying is it isn't going to be pretty if I am hunting my property and I get a pack of dogs on my property ruining my hunt. Will I take care of them probably not but I would hate to be the owner.

I am glad someone got a laugh out of it. Cheeseheads have no sense of humor.

[nolte]

Neiko

The way you came off originally, it sounded like you fanatically worried about your property. I've had no less than a dozen people tell me they were going to shoot my dogs, and this was when I was within my rights of hunting. One such landowner had 5 acres surrounded by thousands of county land, but we were chasing all his deer away so he was livid(in February no less). Those kinds of statements really rub me the wrong way.

Let me know when you get your sheep, I'll find a pair of velcro gloves and send em to you. That should make those cold MN nights a little more tolerable.

[houndsman]

Yea shooting someones hunting dog is not a great idea there you must not know how much some of them hounds cost and what they mean to some hunter i tell you what if someone shot my dog they would pay for it and be turned in and after all that i would to alittle my self to make that persons live misserable

[almostthere!]

Do you hounds hunters put blaze orange collar on your dogs? Something to distinguish them from wild dogs.

[houndsman]

When hunting with our hounds we will have tracking collars on them to beable to keep track of them were ever they may be and usually a regualr collar of different collars a collar on any dog is very visable to bout any one and them tracking collars if you cant seem them i don't know what to tell ya they stick out pretty easly when im coon hunting at night i put lighted collars on my dogs they can be seen up to a mile away as long as in line of sight