More Toyota news

[LMITOUT]

I watch the truck series when I can also because it's some of the best televised racing there is. Half the time they are on their roof! Those boys go for it hard and let it all hang out every race. I don't have any favorite driver, but it's some good action and entertainment.

[JohnMickish]

They go for it hard because the races are so short, but are they better now than three years ago? If Martin or Busch or some other "truckwacker" isn't racing it's pretty much a Toyota (Bodine and Muskgrave) run away. Not that we have much to say about it but do we want that sort of thing in cup?

[LMITOUT]

Good question. I really never paid much attention to what make won on any given night, but I know the Dodges used to be strong in the past although I have noticed that the 'Yotas are in the front quite often now. I watch casually so I can't say what the ratio is of Toyota to Chevy/Ford.

[VMS]

"I too have added NAPA to my list of stores I no longer go to. I only go to a parts store about 3 times a year and used to go to NAPA all exclusivly (because of their racecar sponsorship) but not spend my money elsewhere. NAPAfish, it's not because NAPA is going with Toyota its because of Toyota and how they do things. I know I don't spend much there but every bit helps (or hurts)."

You have GOT to be kidding me... You would no longer go to one of THE BEST parts stores around just because of TOYOTA'S business practices? All NAPA is for racing is a sponsor of Michael Waltrip and whatever team he is on. The business practice of Toyota has NOTHING to do with what happens in the retail market besides bring customers in due to ADVERTISING on the cars. Why do you think sponsorship is such a big thing in NASCAR? It's not because of the team, driver, or make of car...it's ADVERTISING plain and simple. Besides...in the grand scheme of things, will it be the Make of the car that brings more people into the stores?...don't think so. It will be the DRIVER PROMOTING THE SPONSOR that will and with millions of people watching the race, it will be that nice logo on the hood of the car.

Steve

[TNFL]

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You would no longer go to one of THE BEST parts stores around just because of TOYOTA'S business practices?

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I've only been to NAPA once, and they sold me the wrong part.

[Jeremy airjer W]

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I began my NAPA boycott as soon as they announced they were going to Toyota!

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I too have added NAPA to my list of stores I no longer go to. I only go to a parts store about 3 times a year and used to go to NAPA all exclusivly (because of their racecar sponsorship) but not spend my money elsewhere. NAPAfish, it's not because NAPA is going with Toyota its because of Toyota and how they do things. I know I don't spend much there but every bit helps (or hurts).

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You've got to be kidding. You'll drive one of the three worst made vehicles, shop at a Wall Mart, pass up a local hardware store to get to a home depot/menards, but you won't buy anything from NAPA because they happen to sponsor a driver that is going to drive a Toyota next year. How about this year, they are "sponsoring" a dodge. At least my reason for not patronising is a little more valid. They never had the parts I needed.

Lets hope that Budwieser, Michelob, or Grain Belt, don't end up on the side of a Toyota I hate to see you have nothing to drink on a warm sunday afternoon! (that was sarcastic guys )

Quite frankly, If the best that they can do is Mikey and Jarret they can spend and buy and steel what they want and there still going to suck on the track!!!

[Uncle Bill]

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frankly, If the best that they can do is Mikey and Jarret they can spend and buy and steel what they want and there still going to suck on the track!!!

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Well said !!

[JohnMickish]

I don't drink Bud either. I used to be a Miller drinker but that might be changed here too. Carqwest sponsors a car too, in case you where wondering. I too was sold the wrong part on one of my last three visits to NAPA, I returned in and went to Fleet Farm and got the right one.

Thats the whole deal with sponsorships, it shows me (and you) who is interested in maketing to me (and you). It's my choice to decide where to shop after that.

Airjer, if everybody drove a Toyota wouldn't you be out of a job? There is no doubt in anybody mind that Toyota builds great cars, but this thread isn't about production cars, it's about racecars, lobbying for rules changes, business practices and sponsorship, lets keep it to that.

On the other hand

"Quite frankly, If the best that they can do is Mikey and Jarret they can spend and buy and steel what they want and there still going to suck on the track!!!"

Thats funny righ there.

[JohnMickish]

Just saw a commercial on SpeedTV for Bumper to Bumper auto parts with Kasey Kane in it. Now I have more choices for my three trips a year to the auto store.

[Jeremy airjer W]

No I wouldn't be out of a job! The truth is that things still go wrong with the asian imports, just not as bad as the domestics and the rarely leave you stranded at the boat launch.

You missed my point, again. (If you keep doing this I'm not going to post anymore ) It wasn't about imports and exports, its about the businesses we choose to patronize if for nothing else better prices and not for what they really are. I'll leave the cars out of this one. Lets take walmart for example. Are they killing small businesses? do they have shady employment practices? do I shop there, Yup would I stop If they sponsored a ford, thats rediculous! Lets take homedepot/ menards. Are they killing of the local hardware stores? Is it easier to drive 15 minutes to the big chain store where you cant find help to pick up a couple dollar item when you could have drove a couple of blocks to the local hardware store, recieved a friendly hello, guided to the location of the item you need, given advice on what to do with it, and rang up with a genuine thankyou. A business should be avoided, or patronized based on how they conduct business not who's car they sponsor!

You see my point is that making decisions on where to shop based on whos on the side of what car makes no sense to me. I guess to me if there wasn't any sponsors there wouldn't be a nascar as we see it today. I would dare say that sponsors are sponsoring nascar in general more than a particular car.

It sounds a bit hypocritical to me if we say its o.k. to sponsor the big three even if we don't like the dodge and ford teams and still patronise those businesses but sponsor the Imports and forget it, you won't shop there anymore!!! (insert rolling eyes imodicon here)

[JohnMickish]

You see my point is that making decisions on where to shop based on whos on the side of what car makes no sense to me. "I guess to me if there wasn't any sponsors there wouldn't be a nascar as we see it today. I would dare say that sponsors are sponsoring nascar in general more than a particular car."

That is wrong, since most major sponsors have a particular driver/crewchief/owner in mind before they go looking into the sport, and many have the driver/crewchief tied into the deal, ie Lowes with JJ. If you have ever read any of the insider puplications/websites you would know that the sponsor is more interested in the driver than anything else. In this case NAPA has chosen Mikey to be their spokesman. I don't like Mikey so I chose not to shop there anymore. I do realize I am in the minority on this particular item but if you think about marketing and spokemen think about this, now how many Dale Jr. fans have switched over to drinking bud?

That is what it's all about, and yes I did get your point, I just thought it was wrong. Maybe I'm wrong to think this way but I do chose not to patronize businesess that don't patronize my employment(Walmart, Honda, Kmart, CVS and so on) but I will gladly spend a few more dollars at the places that put me to work.

[OUTDOORNUT]

Ask Sterling Marlin if sponsors are for a paticular driver/team/etc. or if they just want to be in NASCAR in general.

NAPA left DEI, a very high profile team to go with a paticular driver.

It is well documented that NASCAR fans are the most product/sponsor loyal fans on the earth. That must also make us most likely to be unloyal to sponsors we don't care for. (for whatever reason)

You can't tell me a Johnson fan wouldn't drive a tad farther to go to Lowe's than Home Depot.

[Jeremy airjer W]

Take away the cameras, the legendary tracks, the faithful fans, and the sponsors will not stay!

[JohnMickish]

Airjer is correct, but remember before we had Lowes, Home Depot, Bud, Viagra and all the other 12-20 million dollar a year sponsors we had sponsors like Folgers, Piedmont, Wrangler and so on back when the tracks where becoming legendary, before the cameras and media hoopla and the only fans NASCAR had where die hard fans.

The sport is changing boys, is it changing for the better or changing so the France family can pass the Walton family on the Forbes 500 list??

[SkeeterMark]

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Derrick Cope could have drove thoses DEI cars in any of those races and done the same as Mikey! It was the cars that were good, not Mikey!

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Derrike Cope won the Daytona 500 once, too....just so you know.

NASCAR loves brand loyal fans. If it didn't work, no one would sponsor any cars. Personally, if I need a part and NAPA's close by, I'll get it at NAPA, doesn't matter. I shop at Menard's, though I am a #48 fan. Never needed Viagra, but I still like Mark Martin, and hope I don't need AAA. UPS still brings my packages, though I'm disappointed it's not in a souped up truck, but I'll take a box from FedEx once in a while, too.

The main point is the difference between teams and manufacturers. Red Bull is the owner AND sponsor of their two teams for 2007, which is kind of unique. Mikey is owner of MWR and his two teams, and will rely on sponsors to foot the bills. The sponsors, by virtue of the $, have the strongest vote on who will drive for them. I'm sure Mikey wanted Jarrett for his championship status anyway. Toyota is the manufacturer for these teams and is under no extra restrictions or given any special priveleges than the other manufacturers. They could build their test track in Japan for that matter (if there were room....I suppose they could "make" an island like for their airport). Who cares if teams test there. Currently ALL teams can test at non Cup tracks, so what's the difference. It's a non issue.

My current vehicles and (repairs)

96 Dodge Ram - 236,000 mi, (one tranny)

93 Nissan Altima - 303,000 (minor suspension issues)

94 Lexus ES300 [Toyota] - 218,000 (none)

94 Chevy Silverado - 266,000 (two trannys, is out again)

97 Chevy Diesel - 180,000 (none)

Several brands, getting my use out of all of them.

Enough now, I don't want to wear out my Hwelett Packard personal computer keyboard, so I'll go back and sit down behind my Herman Miller Office Systems desk in my Wrangler Loose fit jeans, take a sip of my Folger's Mountain Grown coffee and try and get some work done today.

Mark

[Jeremy airjer W]

(airjer is standing and applauding skeeters reply)

Nicely said skeeter!!!!

[JohnMickish]

Remember though, Toyota dosen't run their truck teams the way Chevy, Ford and Dodge do. The american brands make the basic engine parts (block and heads) and the rest is left up to the individual teams as far as assembly of engine, tuning, chassis and body. Toyota factory makes the complete engine assembly and chassis and gives (sells, leases) these parts to the teams. That part is against the competition rules in Cup racing. It will be interesting to see how this will work out since basically all Toyota teams (truck) are offshoots of one big team. And Jack still can't have 5 cars.

[Jeremy airjer W]

Is jack a vehicle manufacturer? Last time I checked the mitchell I didn't see a jack or rousche listed in the manufacturer.

I don't get how you keep thinking that an owner and a manufacturer are the same. I don't get how you think its bad that somebody does things differently. At some point somebody started wearing a helmut, at some point somebody started porting heads, at somepoint somebody used a dyno to fine tune there vehicles, at some point somebody used a wind tunnel to work on the coefficient of drag. At some point all of these could or may have been considered conterversial and cheating. Now there are excepted as common racing proctice.

Don't get me wrong I still like to argue with you

Have a good weekend guys/gals!!

[JohnMickish]

Airjer, the difference is that Toyota (the manufacturer) IS the team. You can put Waltrip or Red Bull or whatever on the sign out front of the building but they are just going to be mirco managed satelite teams, kind of like Mark Martin "owning" the 17 car, or Gordon "owning" the 48. It's no longer legal for Roush or Hendrick to do it but why is it legal for Toyota?

NASCAR and all of their wisdom came down and said that Jack Roush had an unfair advantage to have five cars and that a single car team would not be able to compete, but when Toyota entered into the mix it all of a sudden became ok for a manufacturer to micro manage SIX cars.

I'd be willing to bet that to fight fire with fire Roush becomes a factory Ford team and he keeps all his teams.

Adn yes, you are correct that there is nothing wrong with doing things differently, as long as they are legal. When you start pushing gray areas in the the rules and balance the intent of the rule vs. what is printed is when people start to get upset. It dosen't matter if you are talking about Chad Knous or management at Toyota.

[JohnMickish]

We kind of lost sight of the intent of this thread here, it was about Toyota being given a different set of rules and timetables (in regards to engine technology) to play "catchup" to the real cup manufacturers.

I just read that Yates "purchased" a Roush chassis and was ready to announce a big name driver to fill the 88 seat. Is it possible that Roush will just slide one of his teams over to Yates and therefor run one 4 car team and one 2 car team out of two different shops, ala Toyota?

[NAPAFISH]

I was reading a blurb from Jayski.

DEI was pushing for all bow tie teams to band together for engine purposes, to combat the upcoming Yotas

[JohnMickish]

I read that too and I think they are all going to have to do it to stay competitive. Who is going to build Toyota's cup engines since they can't do it at the factory like they do for the trucks. Have any of you Toyota followers heard yet?

[lawdog]

Ford basically did that a few years ago with the Rousch/Yates combo (who else is there???) and that worked wonders for them. I doubt that Hendrick would be real thrilled to give its engines to DEI or RCR but that may be what it takes to compete with these toyota jerks and all their money! Gotta wonder if DEI isn't feeling like their engine department isn't a bit behind to be making this proposal. RCR made a big upgrade in their department this year and Hendricks motors have alwasy been top shelf. I really wonder if this could work. There are lots of BIG Chevy teams, vs really only two Ford teams...

[JohnMickish]

Lawdog is right again, there are some really big egos in the chevy camp and three would have to admit defeat to Hendrick. Unless this comes down from the corporate level I'm sure this will be a hard pill to swallow for Gibbs, RCR and DEI. I might be wrong on who would be the "winner" but in the chevy camp who's engines would you prefer to run?

[LMITOUT]

There would be no admitting to defeat of Hendrick because nobody can say that they are better than the other two. Give me and everyone else here some facts to back up the claim of Hendrick being superior.... Wins alone don't show a dominant engine department.

Honestly I don't see many engine failures from any of the three teams mentioned, not enough to "admit defeat".