More Toyota news

[JohnMickish]

Quote taken from Jack Roush about Toyota.

"What I do know, is Toyota just hired (engineer) John Propst from Ford, and that gives Toyota access to everything all the Ford teams have known about the engineering of the cars, and that's a cheeky move by Toyota, and it's certainly a coup for Toyota. The thing that is more distressing is Toyota is in position to make their own tires, with its relationship with Bridgestone....And I've heard Toyota has acquired 100 acres of land in Charlotte to put together a test track."(Winston Salem Journal)(4-10-2006)

If they do build their own track and get their own tires is this fair? when the director of Toyota motorsports said on windtunnel that Toyota wouldn't spend thier way to the top and the budget would be the same as the other manufacturers?? How would you police that?

I just think it's ironic in a time when NASCAR tells one team (Roush) that he has to many cars and has to cut down because it's not fair to outspend the smaller teams that this would go on. How is GM supposed to compete against another manufacturer that has it's own track and tires with their pending bankruptcy?

[Jeremy airjer W]

If GM started to build cars with the same quality, reliability and appeal that toyota has than maybe america's faith and trust in "domestic" vehicles would return. Until then the "japanese" auto makers will continue to convert "domestic" buyers into "import" buyers. Lets see, build a better car and they will buy it!! Ford and chrysler could take some notes as well. Would you constantly buy the same widget that continued to brake after only a couple of uses, or would you look for a different widget that didn't break? Do I feel sorry for GM? no way they dug there own hole! remember the corsica, chevette, citation, cavalier, cimeron, lumina, lumina APV. lets not forget there newest failures, the ssr (lets copy the pt cruiser, brilliant!!!) and the impala/malibu. Number one on the list, the chevy blazer. Its pretty sad when you can give them the estimate for repairs before we even pull the vehicle into the shop!!

[PikeBayCommanche]

I agree Airjer. All of the people that think that Toyota has such an advantage. Well yes they do because they build a superiour product. I would buy an american product if the quality was that of the Toyota products. A buddy of mine just purchased a Zr-2 s-10 and the thing already needs $800 in repairs for the bearings in the wheels. I swear that they put those Service engine Soon lights on to get people worried then they take it in and come back and say yeah nothings wrong just turned the light off for you that will be $100. Thanks.

I think GM needs to step up the quality alot.

[JohnMickish]

This has nothing to do with the quality of the road cars and nobody is questioning Toyota's ability to build a quality product. My question/statement was about racecars and the spending that Toyota said they wouldn't do and how NASCAR is going to be fair or not about it.

Is it fair for Toyota (or anybody else) to build their own racetrack and have copies of the race tires made to do private testing and should NASCAR limit things like that?

[JohnMickish]

Believe it or not I'm not rippin' on Toyota here for doing what the rules allow them to do but more of a dig on NASCAR's abillity to prove the double standard still lives. IF the statement about having their own track and tires comes true (just like F1) and NASCAR still limits Roush/Hendrick/Gibbs/DEI and everyone else from having 4,5,6 or however many teams still stands "because the little guy can't compete" then NASCAR will lose all credibility with me.

If the one car team or minortiy entry level owners (that NASCAR seems to be courting) can't compete against the multi car teams how the he11 are they supposed to compete against a manufacturer that has it's own track?

There, I feel better now and the Dr. says the medication should kick in by morning. Thanks for letting me rant and I probably sound like a real butthead but this sort of thing just bothers me.

[Jeremy airjer W]

So what your saying is shame on toyota for thinking of this stuff first? Why hasn't GM, Ford, Chrysler thought of this? I'll tell you why, there only concern is selling cars on monday, not what team has better motors, better aero, better shocks, better drivers! So lets invest the bare minimum to get our brand to win. Hmmm, sounds familiar. Whats the minimum investment we have to make to get this vehicle into production and by the way everything on this car only has to last 33,000 miles. Shame on toyota once again! they don't want to win they want to be the best!!! whats wrong with that? I think everyone is just worried that they could be the best. With heads up thinking like that they might just be in the end. Oh wait a minute, yeah I forgot, there is that thing called the rule book that changes whenever it needs to to equal the playing field. You know if the big three would have built there own track and tires nobody would have been complaining. In my opinion that would have been the first smart thing they could have done since dicontinueing the chevy celebrity!!

As far as credibility I don't understand how you make the connection with the teams and the manufactures. If the manufacturers want to build a test track thats there business however if a big team wants to build a test track thats a different ball game. In theory or I should say the right thing to do is let all the chev teams use the chev track, all the ford teams use the ford track. where it becomes unfare is if the big chev team builds a track and doesn't let the other chev teams use it, or if toyota says the independant guys running toyota bodies can't use it.

[JohnMickish]

Whoa there, lets not turn this into a political business discussion as we all know that the different manufacturers from the different continents all have their own way of contucting business when it comes to their own racing program. Probably the biggest problem with the American auto manufacturers is the amount of shareholders that want the immediate return on their investment, and corporate american is all about the shareholders. Again, nobody is saying Toyota dosen't do things right when it comes to building their production vehicles. What I am saying is how can NASCAR tell one team they can't do something then let another team do it?

Let me ask this a different way, would it be right for Dodge to venture into a partnership with Perelli tires and have their own test track while NASCAR tells Toyota they have to many teams and have to dismantle one by 2009?

For the record, Roush was going to build it's own test track circling it's new race headquarters but the deal was shot down a few years ago.

[Uncle Bill]

Shows what many have known all along.

Toyota finds naive Americans easy targets for their B.S. and propaganda campaigns.

Toyota sux, and so do their cars.

I'd bet these people that support toyota have never been to a NASCAR race and never will.

So to Bill France, Bill Davis, the Waltrips and all the other sellouts, I say "Good luck with all that"

Go #17

[JohnMickish]

I would like to add that IN MY OPINION, taking the New York Yankee's approach to winning (going out and purchasing the best playes at every position) show's me nothing more than you have the ability to write a bigger check. Now beat me in a fair game on a fair field with players (drivers, crew, engineers and so on) that you drafted or developed and I'll be the first in line to congratulate you. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Back to the original post, tell me how it will be easier for All Star Motorsports, a first year single car team to compete aginst Toyota, a 6 car effort than it is to compete aginst Roush, a 5 car effort, which was the reason for the limit on how many cars a team can have (to make it easier for single car teams) and the reason I brought this whole thing up in the first place.

[PikeBayCommanche]

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Toyota sux, and so do their cars.

I'd bet these people that support toyota have never been to a NASCAR race and never will.

So to Bill France, Bill Davis, the Waltrips and all the other sellouts, I say "Good luck with all that"

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Obviously you have never owned a Toyota.

I was going to go to a race at Kansas Motor Speedway but can't afford to spend $150 for a ticket plus gas, lodging and booze. Probably $400 or more all said and done. Too pricey for one race.

As far as the whole track thing I find it hard to believe that Nascar will allow them to build a track and not Roush to do so also.

As far as comparing NASCAR to racing is not a fair compairison at all.

Engine making comes down to good engineering and if you are telling me that Toyota will spend that much more on them. They need to find better people obviously. Of course Toyota hasn't even raced a Nextel race yet and everyone is already crying foul about how good they will be.

[OUTDOORNUT]

Roush tried buiding his own track years ago! I thought NASCAR put the kabash on it due to testing infractions.

[Uncle Bill]

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Obviously you have never owned a Toyota.

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My wife (and I) owned a nissan maxima.

Does that count ?

[JohnMickish]

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Roush tried buiding his own track years ago! I thought NASCAR put the kabash on it due to testing infractions.

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Thats exactly my point. How can one do it and not allow another?

[PikeBayCommanche]

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The thing that is more distressing is Toyota is in position to make their own tires, with its relationship with Bridgestone....And I've heard Toyota has acquired 100 acres of land in Charlotte to put together a test track."(Winston Salem Journal)(4-10-2006)

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They havn't done anything yet so I am sure that Roush will have something to say about it if it accually happens and then he will be alowed to do the same. Its all speculation right now so lets not use our jump to conclusion mats.

We all now how the media just likes to try to make stories.

[JohnMickish]

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As far as comparing NASCAR to racing is not a fair compairison at all.

Engine making comes down to good engineering and if you are telling me that Toyota will spend that much more on them. They need to find better people obviously. Of course Toyota hasn't even raced a Nextel race yet and everyone is already crying foul about how good they will be.

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Remember, Chevy and Ford are working with the same basic engine since 1974, and the chevy engine went into production in 1955 and the ford in 1969. They are using engines that where developed with slide rule technology, Toyota will has a clean sheet of paper to work with. If you think that GM and Ford wouldn't jump at the chance to reengineer their motors, move bore centers, water jackets and crankshaft centerlines around if given the chance you would be a crazy.

I don't think anybody is afraid of getting beat by Toyota in a fair fight, I think they just want to make sure the fight is fair. Toyota gets a clean sheet of paper on the body as well with the COT. If you think about it there wasn't a better time to come in to the "sport". Newer engine technology and the same starting point on the body as the other guys.

[PikeBayCommanche]

Thanks for the interesting debate on this since you definately know alot more about Nascar history than me.

So if Toyota is going to make these changes to improve the engine why wouldn't they allow the rest of the teams to change the engines to keep "par' with the rest? i guess I don't understand why you wouldn't want to improve the motor since they are using the same ones from 74.

Would it add horsepower or give it better reliability at high RPM's?

[JohnMickish]

I don't know if peak HP would be any better but how the torque and HP curves are could definitly be moved around with a better cylinder head port design and with newer engineering you can have much more room for the crankshaft and a more optimum rod/stroke ratio. With moving the water jackets around you can put more water where the engine runs the hottest (exhaust seat area) and less at the bottom of the bores. The reliabilty would also be built in. Lots of things have been learned over the last 50 years as far as engine design goes.

[harvey lee]

Chevy and Ford should then be allowed to redesign thier blocks and componates to compete with Toyotas new designs for a new racing motor.

If Toyota wants to enter the world of Nascar,thats fine,but make them follow the same rules.

I'm afraid that Nascar will allow Toyota a unfair advantage.

[eyepatrol]

In ENGLISH please?!?!?! (I know nothing about motor mechanics)

[JohnMickish]

With newer technology you can move where the power is withing the RPM range better. At some tracks you might not like alot of torque (martinsville) but need good horsepower and at some other tracks you might like lots of torque to get you off the corners. With a new design you can incorporate room within the engine to make for different size pieces to get what you want. Hope that helped.

[eyepatrol]

Yeah, it did. I was actually just kidding though with the "english" comment (shoulda clarified that I guess).

Thanks for the explanation though!

[harvey lee]

I would just add that you adjust your chassis for different tracks for handling.You could also design a different type motor for a tracks application also.

This is also one of the few times that mnfishingguy and I agree.scary ha.

[PikeBayCommanche]

It will be interesting to see what happens. Nascar won't be able to let only Toyota do the changes on the current engine. I think that If you let this happen it would be an advantage for the littler teams making them more competative.

[Jeremy airjer W]

Its hard to be sarcastic in type!

I guess what I don't understand is if a manufacturer wants to build a track whats to stop them? if a team wants to build a track I could see a lot of red tape. I'm not sure why you are trying to compare a manufacturer to a team? obviously nascar will have a lot to say about what a team can and cannot do but whats to stop a manufacturer to build a track and test plagerized tires on a vehicle simular to a cup/busch/truck series car. I can't see Nascar being able to regulate it!

My other points previous to this pointed towards the fact that toyota sales are up substantially. If sales are up then you have more money to spend. If sales are substantially up than your deffinetly doing something better than the rest.

Uncle Bill NO! Nissian is the asian equivalent to chrysler. they look good but always seem to have some problem. YES I have been to a nascar race! Charlette to be exact I also enjoy racing at the local tracks. Raceway Park, Cedarlake, and Hibbing Raceway are my favorites. I have owned imports for around ten years. A Honda Prelude, Toyota Tacoma, and know a Toyota Tundra. All three together have a combined mileage of over 360,000 miles. Would you like to compare maintenance histories with 300,000 miles worth of your vehicles to see who spent more/less?

[JohnMickish]

And the hits keep coming..

Toyota looking at Fennig? 5 hired from Penske..more: former #26/97/6 Roush crew chief Jimmy Fennig [recently replaced on the #26 and now with Roush in the Busch Series], a highly respected, no-nonsense guy who gained his credentials with Bobby Allison and Mark Martin, is suddenly the hottest item in the stock-car racing garage, with Toyota officials and Dodge's Chip Ganassi expected to make calls. Ganassi is looking for a new team manager for his three-car operation after Andy Graves' resignation. And Fennig could be just the guy to fill the void, with instant credibility. Toyota could be an option. Toyota executives are wide open in building their Nextel Cup tour operations, and now they're raiding teams right and left, according to car owners. Don Miller, of the Roger Penske team, said that Toyota has picked up five Penske men already: "They just offer them $20,000 more than they're currently making, and get them." Ganassi has been so upset at losing crewmen to Toyota that he has sent the company a "cease-and-desist" letter. That move has many here writing off Ganassi for any Toyota-NASCAR deal.(Winston Salem Journal)(4-22-206)

And

Toyota to buy out Robby? Harvick? Jarrett AND UPS? #7-Robby Gordon declined to comment on the latest reports that Toyota and sponsor Red Bull are making an offer to buy him and his entire team. General Motors executives are still hopeful of keeping Gordon in their fold and point to the extensive work they've done to help Gordon become more competitive as an independent owner-driver. #29-Kevin Harvick, also said to be on Toyota's wish list, is still negotiating with GM and owner Richard Childress for a contract renewal, and the yes or no could come in the next few days. Harvick has set a package and price, and the ball is in Childress' court. But team sources indicate that Childress isn't willing to meet Harvick's demands. Childress has been unavailable for comment, and Harvick has declined to comment. According to sources, Dodge owner Ray Evernham may be interested in hiring Harvick.

And Toyota apparently wants not only Dale Jarrett but also his sponsor, UPS. That situation is unclear, but it appears to mean that if car owner Robert Yates wants to keep UPS on his quarterpanels, he would also have to re-sign Jarrett for two more years.(Winston Salem Journal), note: supposedly UPS is signed thru 2007 with Yates and Jarrett is signed thru 2006.(4-22-206)

I don't know about you but to me this dosen't look like they are building a team, they are buying it.