Patterning - Spring '06

[Hotspotter]

In an attempt to make sure we're all in-line for the spring hunt, I hope to see some posts up here with patterns we're all acheiving. I think we all owe it to these birds to know our maximum range and feel comfortable with our weapon of choice to ensure a clean kill. So as the weather gets warmer, and our thoughts turn towards spring, make sure and show us how you've been doing! Keep in mind though, that just because gun A, choke B, and load C are a go for you, doesn't mean they'll necessarily pattern as well or well at all for the next guy. The value in this comes as a starting point for those of us trying to improve our patterns and do even better than last year.

That said, I'd like to see:

-Gun - full details, gauge, model, action, barrel length, special modifications

-Choke - INCLUDE CONSTRICTION,

-Load - full details, gauge, pellet size, type, and oz. payload, manufacturer, etc.

-Pattern - how many pellets in a 10" circle at 40 yards (this gives us a standard to gauge against) - Shoot first, then draw circle from center of pattern later. This avoids testing how good a shot you are, rather than how well your gun/choke/pattern performed.

I'll be trying to get my rig straightened out in the next few weeks if I can. Borch leaked info on some new #7 Federal heavyweights that hit like #5's due to how dense/heavy they are. I'll be trying those, Winchester xtended, Hevi13's, and comparing them all against the Remington Hevi-shot I've been using the past three years. It'll be painful and expensive, to my wallet and shoulder.

Anybody get their gun out this weekend?

Joel

[rogrod]

That #7 might not be a good idea. Isn't MN rule 4, 5 or 6 shot.

[TomBow]

"Only fine shot, size No.4 or smaller may be used"--per MN Wild Turkey regs. so 7's are OK.

[Fall Morning Fanatic]

I am only getting 1.

Of course that's because it is 28" long and tipped with a 2" expandable broadhead

[Borch]

I've been hearing that the Fed heavy weight likes a choke in the .670-.680 for a standard bore 12 gauge. So the stock choke for your stoeger at .674 should work for you. The hevi 13 usually likes more choke. Usually .650 - .660 works best for hunting situations. Although gys have used as tight as .640 for target competitions with the hevi 13. If you find some old stock, snatch it up as the word is that they pattern better than this years. Environmetal is working to get this straightened out.

The Winchester Elite Extended loads shoot well in the same as you's use for lead, about .655 - .665 in a standard bore.

Now for which one hits harder I'll be the Federal Heavy Weights every time. They are over 30% denser than copper plated lead and leave the barrel at 1300fps or higher. The rest of them are right around 10% denser than copper plated lead shot. The Winchester Extended are arond 1225 fps, Hevi-13 around 1050 fps and Rem Hevishot around 1300 fps. These are all lethal out to 40 yards. But if you can get your gun to shoot the Fed. Heavy Weights you'll have more margin for error.

[Borch]

Well I don't have all the info but here's what I have for my first patterning session. I just used the turkey head printed on a 11x8.5' sheet of paper. Most of the time was spent on my daughter's set up as she can't make the patterning gathering this weekend. Distances were measured.

20 gauge 870 youth

.570 Primos Tight wad

Rem 3" #6 Hevishot

Average bone hits

20 yards 45 hits

30 yards 25 hits

40 yards 8 hits

I still have to play with the sights a little as the pattern wasn't quite centered.

Winchester 1300 12 gauge(My back up gun)

Tru Glo Strut Stopper .665

Fed. #5 Mag shot Fite Control 2 oz 3"

Average bone hits.

20 yards Ragged hole

30 yards 30 hits

40 yards 17 hits

Joel were you able to locate any Fed HW #7 shot? I haven't been able to track any down yet.

[Hotspotter]

Borch:

Funny you should ask, was just going to post on it.

I put a question into Federal and am awaiting a response regarding these purported #7's. On the HSOforum, under specific shell descriptions, it says they're available in that size. Then on the downloadable Q&A PDF file, it says that the heavyweights are only available in sizes 5 & 6?!?!

Cabelas doesn't stock anything but 5's and 6's, web or retail, and the other places I've checked around here don't have them. I'm starting to wonder if these are in production still?

Joel

[Wallydog]

When I shoot the smokepole:

Mossberg 835, 22" BBL, Kicks .675 ported choke, Winchester Supreme 1 3/4 oz. #6

It consistently shoots 11-20 strikes in a 4" cicle on a NWTF Still Target Shoot competition target at 40 yds.

WD

[Borch]

I now they are available as freinds in other states have been shooting them this spring. But danged if I can't get my hands on some. I even had my dad check on them while he was a Bass Pro in Springfeild MO and they didn't have any. I still have a couple spots to check.

[Borch]

Quote:

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Borch:

Funny you should ask, was just going to post on it.

I put a question into Federal and am awaiting a response regarding these purported #7's. On the website, under specific shell descriptions, it says they're available in that size. Then on the downloadable Q&A PDF file, it says that the heavyweights are only available in sizes 5 & 6?!?!

Cabelas doesn't stock anything but 5's and 6's, web or retail, and the other places I've checked around here don't have them. I'm starting to wonder if these are in production still?

Joel

---

Joel,

Do a search for Macks Prairie Wings. They have them in stock right now.

[Hotspotter]

Borch:

Thanks for the info. You're right, they have 'em. The dang things are $33 though......which got me thinking. I've done some heavy pondering on this, and I think next year I'm taking the step up to Nitros.

Every year since Remington came out with Hevi-shot I've been chasing my tail getting about 3 different boxes of shells a year (~$60-75). My brothers help out with the cost and we pattern together, but it's still a spendy proposition, as we each then have to get one more box of the "winner-load."

So I'll take the plunge, spend $100 for the Rhino tube, and $56 a box for the recommended 4X5X7 Hevi-shot load and see what it can do. While each gun patterns differently, that combination does 230-290 pellets in a 10" circle at 40 yards consistently with my gun; which is almost double what I do with my best factory load.

Maybe it's just a case of "bestism," or maybe its a bit more added confidence knowing that pattern is about as good as I could hope for. I don't know. I've always been one that complains about the guys that go on a fly-in trip of a lifetime with k-mart-brand fishing line. While what I'm using certainly isn't chincy, it doesn't appear to be the best out there.

Will it kill me more birds? Maybe? Probably not, but I know it'll do the best job out there. That's worth something to me. With Hevi-shot and other "super-loads" approaching the price of the Nitros, I think I'm just going to take the plunge.

That is, unless I see some marked improvement with the Hevi13's or Winchester Xtended I'm trying this year.

Joel

[brittman]

I swear I saw the 7s at MFF.

[Borch]

Joel,

Guys are also getting excellent results with the Primos Jelly head choke with the nitros. So either the rhino or the Jelly head should get you the magical 250+ in a 10 inch circle at 40 yards.

I'm think about doing some reloading with a hevi shot duplex load in the future. I know a couple guys that are getting those Nitro patterns with a home brewed load. It's just such a pain to hand load buffered loads. But I'm kind of a do it yourselfer at heart. So I may take the plunge. A couple pounds of hevi shot is big bucks though.

[Borch]

Quote:

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I swear I saw the 7s at MFF.

---

Which one? The one in St. Cloud doesn't but each store orders their own stuff.

[brittman]

Oakdale, MN

[strat-o-caster]

I'm going to finally get a chance to bang away this weekend and post some results... Strat

[Borch]

Quote:

---

Well I don't have all the info but here's what I have for my first patterning session. I just used the turkey head printed on a 11x8.5' sheet of paper. Most of the time was spent on my daughter's set up as she can't make the patterning gathering this weekend. Distances were measured.

20 gauge 870 youth

.570 Primos Tight wad

Rem 3" #6 Hevishot

Average bone hits

20 yards 45 hits

30 yards 25 hits

40 yards 8 hits

I still have to play with the sights a little as the pattern wasn't quite centered.

---

Well after tweaking the sights she's averaging 15 bone hits at a measured 40 yards. Not bad for a 20 gauge.

[Hotspotter]

I waited until Sunday.....unfortunately.

Winds were swirling but predominantly crossing, to the tune of 20mph+ gusts. I took out last year's gold-standard, with the same gun/choke combination at 40 yards. My sights were right on the money last year, but the first shot was a foot or more centered to the right. Next shot was the same.....probably as the crosswind was "pushing" it this way.

I'm no expert at the patterning board, and it's very possible that my rest wasn't firm enough, or I pulled, but two shots drifting the way the beefy crosswind was taking it.......let's just say these turkey loads are too expensive to take the chance.

I'll sight-in when it's calmer sometime this week to remove that possible variable from the equation.

Pattern looked fairly good though!

Joel

[Borch]

Joel it's definitely possible. We sighted in at 10 yards and all were right on the money before we moved out further. At 40 yards the densest part of the pattern was blowing 6-12 inches with the cross wind we had. The actual pattern stretched out almost 2 feet downwind. Stillevery bird was stone dead even if we weren't getting a actual load choke hit count under normal situations.

[Hotspotter]

Yeah, I think it has something to do with these hevi-shot wads that tend to stick with the shot a ways (I find mine usually at the 30-40 yard mark). Wind blowing at the wad/shot will cause it to "blow-up" a bit I'm thinking.

Agreed, those were both dead turkeys, but not what I'm looking for if trying to assess pattern/pellet counts between different loads.

I'll post back, but if it was JUST the wind, I'm thinking I'd even adjust my shot if shooting with stiff cross-winds at longer yardages? That's alot to think about with a longbeard bearing down at you. Probably too much for my brain to handle.

Joel

[Swamp Scooter]

Alright can anyone help the cost curve and let me know if they have had specific shell success with the Beretta Extrama, 28" barrel and I am going to try the standard full choke that comes with it for starters. I have a few shots of some different loads but if anyone can steer me clear can they let me know? Thanks as it is my first season hunting the nasty Toms and I have the spot and the buddy to go with just need to close the deal when my amateur calling finally pays off!

[Hotspotter]

SS:

Unfortunately, I don't. I will offer just a bit on patterning the gun yourself though if you weren't planning on it. It sounds like you were however, so this might be preaching to the choir.

Even with the exact same gun, load, choke combinations....patterns can very extensively from gun to gun. These are more often just a starting point to give it a whirl. Just getting out once and patterning your gun will be worth it. It'll give you the confidence to know that your gun is on, and the knowledge to know your maximum range.

People say that, "I used to hunt turkeys with my fixed full-choke Rem 870 and whatever box of shells I'd buy at fleet farm.....no patterning.....and I killed plenty of birds." Good point.

However, I guarantee they weren't killing birds consistently at 30 yards and beyond. So, if you think you might be taking a shot longer than that, or more appropriately, can't PASS on a bird at that distance or further, I'd spend a few hours shooting just one brand of shells and getting them down.

Kudos to you for searching out the best possible combination.

Shoot me an email when you get a chance.

Joel

[Stratosman]

Swamp, I shoot the same gun as you and I like the Winchester Supreme 2-1/4 oz. 3-1/2 inch #5's shot through a full choke. Great pattern from my gun and the've done the trick each and every time on the real thing.

[Swamp Scooter]

thanks so much guys. I do not have any of those 2 1/4's but will try them as well. Going to shoot this weekend and want to know how it will do out to 50. Not like it will be the distance I take one but I need to know.

got to love the input!

[Hotspotter]

Well, the patterning sessions I've gone through this spring have been frustrating ones. The loads I used to use (Rem. Hevi-shot) will not be made next year, so I had to switch to something else.

In my trials, I patterned 3 different guns to varying degrees of detail. I'll line up the results with the different shot:

-GUN #1

-Browning Gold Hunter 3.5", 24" barrel

-Load - Winchester XR - 3.5" #6, 2oz

-Choke - Bronwing XXFULL Tky - 0.685

-Pattern - 130-150 pellets, max 156 pellets 10" circle @ 40 yds., best of the best, even full pattern

-GUN #1

-Browning Gold Hunter 3.5", 24" barrel

-Load - Hevi13 - 3.5" #6, 1 7/8oz

-Choke - Bronwing XXFULL Tky - 0.685

-Pattern - 115-135 pellets, max 135 pellets 10" circle @ 40 yds, not bad, could've shot straighter, shoulder hurt

-GUN #1

-Browning Gold Hunter 3.5", 24" barrel

-Load - Federal Heavyweight - 3.5" #6, 1 7/8oz

-Choke - Bronwing XXFULL Tky - 0.685

-Pattern - 90-110 pellets, max 119 pellets 10" circle @ 40 yds, terrible, loose pattern with holes

-GUN #2

-Browning Gold Hunter 3.5", 28" barrel

-Load - Federal Heavyweight - 3.5" #6, 1 7/8oz

-Choke - HS Strut Undertaker HS - 0.675

-Pattern - 85-99 pellets, max 99 pellets 10" circle @ 40 yds, terrible, loose pattern with holes....worst tried

-GUN #2

-Browning Gold Hunter 3.5", 28" barrel

-Load - Hevi13 - 3.5" #6, 1 7/8oz

-Choke - HS Strut Undertaker HS - 0.675

-Pattern - 130-146 pellets, max 146 pellets 10" circle @ 40 yds, looked great

Gun #3

-Gun - Stoeger M-2000, 3"

-Load - Rem Hevi Shot - 3" #6, 1 5/8oz

-Choke - Factory XXXFull Tky choke (0.665?)

-Pattern - No pellet counts, looked tight but with holes. Not as good as the brownings with 3.5", I'd estimate 110 pellets.

Gun #3

-Gun - Stoeger M-2000, 3"

-Load - Winchester XR Elite- 3" #6, 1 7/8oz

-Choke - Factory XXXFull Tky choke (0.665?)

-Pattern - Better yet. No pellet counts, but I'd say almost as much as with the 3.5"ers.

So there you have it. Too much shooting for an already sore shoulder!

As you can see, there is some serious value to fine-tuning your load to shotgun/choke combinations. Going into this, from all I've read and looked at, the Federal Heavyweights were the shell to beat. They hit harder, fly faster, but unfortunately in my gun, patterned terribly.

Had I gone out, bought these, rounded one in, and tried to take a 40 yd shot at a bird.....it might have gotten away. Doing extended range testing, I know with those shells, chokes, and guns (the browning's), that I'm lethal to 50 and not a step beyond.

Also note the differences in patterns/preference between the two Gold Hunters!!! We owe it to our quarry to be as humane and efficient as possible when we chase these birds. If you haven't yet visited the range, and you have some time left before your season.....then GO PATTERN YOUR GUN!!!!

The added bonus is the confidence in your weapon and operation of it, that might make all the difference when you're in the woods this spring.

Joel