How fast do crappies/bluegills grow?

[CALVINIST]

I know we are talking two separete fish species, and there are many variables controlling growth rate for a given body of water, but on average, how fast do these fish grow? Thanks.

[smallie_hawgin]

Calv,

On average Bluegill in Central MN grow about an inch per year. Statewide averages are:

1.9" age 1

3.4" age 2

4.9" age 3

6.1" age 4

7.1" age 5

7.8" age 6

8.3" age 7

8.6" age 8

9.1" age 9

Crappie vary quite a bit but the statewide averages are

2.4" age 1

4.8" age 2

6.8" age 3

8.3" age 4

9.5" age 5

10.5" age 6

11.6" age 7

12.3" age 8

12.8" age 9

Hope this helps...

[Mark Christianson]

Could you please make it easier for us to understand SH?

[CrappieJohn]

And of course this is a simple generalization. Genetics, food supply, weather issues, water quality all come into play.

And too, every body of water has its own growth rules. I can think of several bodies of water where you'd no more find a nine inch sunfish than you would a sea going steelhead, yet some of these gills would in all likelihood be older than a nine incher found across town. Ditto on the crappies.

[CALVINIST]

Thanks for the info.

[Mr. Pike1]

Crappie Tom your point is one I have oftened pondered. Why do certain bodies of water hold or allow for better growth rate. I have a body of water right by house that has me all confused. There is not a lot of fishing pressure. the lake is stocked every other year with walleye and there are tiger muskies stocked as well. The lake supports a world class Large mouth population with many many fish in the 18-20" class, with the occassional 21-22" fish. At the same time it has a good crappie population that in some years has year class fish in the 11-13" range but generally speaking 8" fish. The lake also has a perch population that is in the 8-9" class. The puzzling piece to this puzzle is that the sunfish population appears very healthy however the fish are stunted. Most fish are 6" or less. I would think that if the Bass, crappie, and perch can all reach good size why in the world would the sunfish population not follow. Now I have spoke to some old timers that fish this lake and they of course tell tale of 10" sunfish back in the glory days. I have now lived by and fished this lake for over 4 years. I would think in this time that if the sunfish are going to grow at an average rate that the 6" fish would at some point hit the 9-10" class. To date I have not found this class of sunfish in this body and am befuddled as to why on species would stunt.

[CrappieJohn]

Your 10 inch sunfish are probably history even if they once were there.

A ten inch sunnie takes some serious genetic backing. While a marker might be present in 90% of the female poulation to grow them that big, you need the same trait from the male. Say this lake had two hundred such males in it at the beginning of the spawn. If all two hundred superior males were allowed to fertilize the eggs of two hundred females, you could be almost certain that at least one male off-spring from each couple would survivre the ten years or so it takes for them to achieve that size.

These big sunnies are absolute warriors when on the nest. They have to be. When a selected female comes in and gets ready to dump her eggs, the other competing, and less superior , males try to lure him off the nest so that one of them can sneak in and spray the eggs before Mr. Big gets the chance. These lesser fish are referred to as sneakers.

Over the years, these big fish fall prey to the anglers who think they are a non-stop supply for food. As fewer and fewer of the dominant fish exist in that lake, more and more of the lesser fish are able to successfully mate and the amount of product from this mating is enormous. Eventually the big fish are simply eliminated and when the last one goes, so too does that chance they will ever be seen there again.

This is a prime example of too little to late and why we here at FM preach catch and release of true trophy fish and a very strict policy of self imposed selective harvest. It is too late for that water to have restrictions placed on it. It is too late to try and get back what once was. It is simply a matter of angler ignorance that was understood better a little to late.

To be able to catch 10 inch sunfish, or those larger yet, you have to protect them. They have got to go back in the water.

To go even further, we can look at some of the other influences that can mess with either the fish directly or mess with them thru the food chain. Urban, agricultural, and industrial run-off can be severly limiting to the water resources we hope to find that wallhanger in. Tainting an otherwise clean resource with any of the many exotics (both animal and plant) can spell doom to larger fish (or the whole of a particular species).

Of all influences though, it is the angler-caused problems that hurt larger-fish fisheries. Taking that twenty fish limit simply because you can is archaic in justification. Keeping all bigger fish when smaller, equally good tasting , fish are available is archaic in deed. But both instances are the biggest drain on trophy fiesheries everywhere, not just in your lake. The more anglers who hop on this bandwagon, the greater the chances that true trophys will be approachable by everyone, not just a few lucky anglers.

[Mr. Pike1]

Crappie Tom, that is a good assessment. However on the flip side of this there are two west metro lakes that I fish that are very heavily fished and they continue to support a healthy bull sunfish population year after year after year. So there has got to be something more to this then simple genetics in said body of water.

One lake in paticular I have fished since I was a child and to this day it puts out the quality sunfish. Some years of course better then others.

Speaking of 10" sunfish. Many years ago we used to stay on a lake in Ely that for the purposes of this discussion we will call lake X. Anyway, this lake had a narrow bay on the backside of the lake that was loaded with 14-16" 2-3lb crappie. These fish were almost like catching another species with mouths like a large mouth bass. In addition to this there was another small shallow sunny bay that held bull sunfish. We went back there and you could see the monsters on their beds. Man was that a site to see. In the water they of course looked larger then they were. That being said when caught these sunfish were like mutant fish. They were 12"ers yes they were a full 12" thick round sunfish that were the size of a dinner plate. Matt Johnson would never ever come back if he were to get on these monsters. We we able to find and catch these fish for 2 summers and then moved on to other bodies of water. One day I may go back and see if these monster fish still inhabit the water of lake X.

There are also two bodies of water in St. Cloud were a guy can get into pound plus sunfish so they are still out there.

[fisherking01]

Crappie Tom, you have your facts straight indeed, the fish left in the back of a pickup. You are correct in the addition of all of your variables, add into the mix that these heavily fished lakes get on a hot bite and the fish over 5 inches are harvested to an extreme level, not any left to grow.

Some lakes that still put out 1 lb sunnies have a phenomenal growth rate and a great genetic background, It's just that simple. If you don't have the sneekers in the lake they don't reproduce!

On another note, How many anglers will post a lake they are catching one pound sunnies on??? Most I know including myself won't even tell my brother, why? Because if you tell one, he takes two ... and then there are none.

All I am saying is that in some lakes the fish are just not allowed to grow up. It is indeed most invariably effected by the anglers.

[CrappieJohn]

Fisher brings up another variable that has had to have impacted the fishing.....the internet posting. I'll post about the generic fishing. I do fish at other times and get some very solid sunfish, but that fact is not smeared all over the internet.

You may find out what the bait was, how it was worked and what the best color was. You might even find out what body of water I was on and where I was at. I don't post of the biggest nor do I show pictures of the biggest. Some things are best left un said/seen. That is my person tenet and one I adhere to very well.

And Mr.Pike...

I did not mean to infer that all waters were lacking these big sunnies. It is important to keep in mind that all waters are NOT created equal. Some will surely support such fish in spite of an aggressive harvest. Perhaps those that do provide enough sanctuary water throughout the rest of the season that these big fish can endure the pressure. Genetic purity may be very available there too.

We have been discussing some variables. Very seldom do we find ourselves faced with absolutes until it is too late. The variables are what we have most available to us to use as tools for change or preservation.

You are absolutely correct though. This state is loade with waters tht we could consider to be premier panfishing waters, those still able to provide anyone with the potential to be catching true trophy fish. We just need to be very aware of can happen when the guard gets let down.

[Mr. Pike1]

Tom, I agree. I have tried to do my part. I try to practice what I call "CPR" Catch Photo Release. I am a sport fisherman and love the thrill of chase, and yet somehow I am married. I also encourarge selective harvest to those around me and do all that I can to support the DNR politically and in hard dollars.

I will be fishing lake X today North of little falls. Found an area outside of some fallen trees in 12 feet of water where the 12-13" slab crappies have made there winter home. Fun to see then on the camera and of course a blast to catch them.

The bigger spoons seem to spark there interest but the smaller gem eyes and glow jigs are what they like to actually hit

[NAPAFISH]

Wouldnt the amount of large predator fish have something to do with it?? The largest sunnies and crappies I have caught have come out of lakes that have large pike and muskie populations. Is their a correlation between these???

[Corey Bechtold]

Not always, but I have definately seen my fair share of lakes that have larger Panfish and Predator species.

From what I am seeing, there is a relation to lakes that have good sized Bass. There seems to be large Crappies as well and they will use the same areas and feed the same. These lakes also have stunted Bluegills so "Tis a pizzlement".

There is also a big question when you try to relate this statement to the metro. Typically metro lakes recieve more fishing pressure and tend to have some stunting that follows. The metro lakes that have good sized fish seem to be larger and pods of fish seem to be untouched so they can reach their true size potential.

This state is definately interesting because there are too many variables to try to make sence of what makes fish grow larger. Trying not to be too technical but, forage base, weather patterns, protection from predatation, water clarity, lake fretility, so on and so forth, really play a role in the growth cycle of fish. There has been a lot written about Genetics and how important that is in growing good sized Panfish. If we fish a lake that has good sized fish it only makes sence to use some self discipline and practice Catch and Release or Selective Harvest. If you look in the fishing regulations there are some lakes that have lowered limits on Panfish. Why? It is probably because there are some people who can't restrain themselves and take too many good sized fish out of the system. I can tell you from past fishing experiences that I have watched different year classes of fish grow. I have caught and released Crappies for the last 3 years and have watched them grow from 8-9" fish to 11-13" fish. If things go this way I hope to see some fish over 13" next year.

Good topic,

Corey Bechtold

[tims]

I'll take a stab at this one. The lakes that produce stunted gills seem to all have one thing in common. The bluegills from their waters have a high likelyhood to be infested with parasites(little black specks). I dont recall ever catching a true bullgill and seeing much of this infestation. Same being said with pike... Leads me to believe that those parasites must inhibit growth. Im sure there has been some research on this, that may argue against it, but this has just been my observation.

[panfried]

Just got done reading this thread and it got me thinking about a lake that i stumbled across last season. I just happened to drive by it one day while travelling some backroads. There were 2 permanent houses on it and it looked worth further investigation so i gave it a whirl. Turned out to be full of 4"-6" crappies and some small sunnies also. The crappies were litterally like piranha when you dropped your bait down. Only fished it for an hour and caught tons of them, but concluded that there were only small fish in there. Would it be safe to say that these fish would be in the 6"-8" class now? I found the lake on the dnr web site and there was a survey for it. It has bass and northern in it also. However i don't think there are enough because the lake seemed overrun with small fish. Is it possible that with no predation either from fish or humans that the populatuion is way out of control leading to stunted growth due to too many fish and not enough forage???

[Cyberfish]

Panfried, the best way I found to see if the crappies have potential to grow big is look at their bodies. If the small fish are chunky with small eyes, try again in a year or two , they should be decent sized. If the fish are really thin with big eyes, they are growing slowly, if at all.

[CrappieJohn]

Natural predation is nature's way of keeping things in check. As humans though, we seek much larger prey even if it is the same prey species. Humans have the ability to be selective while true predator fish like northerns do not have those skills. Humans target the biggest of these fish while northerns, say, will be happy to fill up on smaller fish less experienced in escape tactics.

Lakes where there is a super number of predators ,excluding human involvement, balance themselves. People are the ones that un-balance the balance beam. But yes, predation by natural means, does affect a specific fishery.

Some lakes do provide ample deep water sanctuary areas where sunfish of large size can retreat and stay out of the predator's way and remain hidden from human intervention. When adequate food stores are in this safe haven area , you will see a lake capable of a good harvest yet keep up to demands of harvesting the larger fish. The farther north you go and the larger the body of water with both deep and shallow water areas in abundance, I think the better the chances of finding such a fishery. It's just that with all of the other influences you cannot rely on every lake up north that is large to give you this kind of sustainment in a panfish fishery.

Yet another consideration is this...

Panfish start off life from the egg eating micro plankton. As larval fish, the size of this forage base is just fine to support decent growth. Remember now, these are extremely tiny fish and MIGHT make it to an inch in the first year. Where stunting is happening, it may be that there is such a strain being placed on the small food stock that no natural predation by larger insect life is successful enough to allow for it to become the next level of forage for the panfish. As they grow larger, so to will their demand for more food and larger kinds of forage. Some lakes are just not able to provide the food resources for large panfish production.

The true brutes in any body of water are very adaptable. They can eat small minnows and crawfish when these are available, but they also eat much larger members of the insect world as well and will include air-borne insects in their diets. During the winter months, they may even have to eat things that we would have a hard time seeing.....not by choice, but by circumstance. The really big fish are extremely versatile in their eating abilities, but not so with the small fish. If the small fishs' food chain dead-ends, so does their ability to grow into larger fish.

[runtille]

I would like to add my .02. Let's not assume that because you have caught small fish the first four times you fished a lake that there is not big fish in there. For example, I fished a metro area lake last weekend that was teeming with 4 inch crappies, but when a buddy and I worked the edge, we found a couple limits of 11 inchers. We fished from 7 AM until 6:30 PM, and the bite for the bigger fish happened from 2:30-4 PM. The best way to tell panfish sizes on a given lake is to go out in the spring and look around while they are spawning.

I would also like to add one more element that may have a big impact on sizes of fish. I will typically get very excited when I hear of a lake that "freezes out occasionally". I have typically had very good luck on these types of lakes. I think that some fish die off and the ones that are left enjoy the spoils, growing much faster than they would have if the lake hadn't frozen out.