muzzy bullet/powder

[Nova]

I had my T/C omega sighted in with 100 grains of powder and a 240 grain sabot slug. I hate those slugs so I am changing to the T/C maxi hunter slug in 350 grain. Should I up my powder to 150 grains with this larger slug or stay at 100 grains. I am going to be resighting again tonight and would like some info if anyone is using this size slug. thanks

[Gissert]

Were you using those plain lead hollow point slugs?

[Nova]

yep, the sabot hollow point.

[Gissert]

Huh. I have had good results to about 70 yards with that 240 grain slug and the black sabot in my Omega. I am getting 2.5 inch groups at 75 yards.

Are you using pyrodex?

[Hines R]

I wouldn't up the powder load that much. Usually the hotter the load the more inconsistent a pattern you'll have. You'll just have to play around with your volume of powder until you figure out what shoots a decent pattern for you with that bullet.

I would give the Powerbelts a try. Easy to load and really accurate. I'm shooting the 295 grain Powerbelts and really like them. If anything I'm going to go down to whatever the next grain level is down probably around 250 grains and go to the aerotip powerbelt for deer. I initially set up my load this year for elk so that's why I went with the 295 grain. It did a great job on the doe I shot on Saturday though.

I think sabots would be worth the better ballistics if I were shooting with a scope. Otherwise a 100 yard shot would be about the longest shot I would even consider taking right now and the powerbelts shoot that range and out to 150 yards without a problem.

I'd love to get out again this year but I had to beg for yesterday morning. The wife says my season is over. Besides where I hunt is 4 hours away.

Ryan

[Nova]

Actually using triple 7, but I had great groups when sighting in at 75 yards a month ago, but couldn't hit a bull in the backside this weekend in the cold. I thought maybe the plastic jacket was affected by the cold, so I am switching to a non sabot slug. After missing 3 times at deer I went to the range and couldn't hit a paper plate at 30 yards. Reloaded and went to 10 yards and hit my quarter sized mark on the plate on the top left. That inconsistancy scares me. I am no dead eye/sharp shooter, but I can always hit a plate at 30 yards.

[Gissert]

That is really odd. I did not get out last weekend, but I would not think that the cold would screw with your accuracy that much. I am shooting the same load, except I have two pyrodex pellets insead of triple 7.

Did your sights get knocked around?

[Nova]

That was my first thought, and exactly why I went to 10 yards to try it, but if they did why was it almost right on a quarter sized dot at 10 yards? I keep the gun in a safe or the hard case when I am not using it and I didn't drop it or fall out of the tree. Really got me baffled to. I am leaving work for the range in about 1/2 an hour and I'll stay til dark or get it figured out. I'll let you know what I find. Good news is there are no less deer between Underwood and Dent because of it.

[Hines R]

I had a problem with mine and was questioning how it was shooting yesterday. Yes I hit the doe on Saturday and it was a good shot, but I actually missed a closer shot on a buck 3 minutes after the doe. I then shot my gun yesterday morning in the cold and I was shooting at least 3 inches to the left. I shot twice at targets and had it happen on both shots. I don't know if it was a factor of the cold affecting the gun, or how much clothes I was wearing. When I sighted it in I was right on the money, but I was also wearing a tshirt and it was August. I'm going to play around with things in the spring and see if it was the clothes or something going on due to the cold.

I'm shooting 90 Grains of loose triple seven, and a 295 grain powerbelt. I was right on where I should be vertically, but it was definitely getting pushed to the left.

Ryan

[Gissert]

Post your results, please. I am gonna try and get out on Saturday and I am curious if there is a cold weather issue.

I sighted in the summer too. I did shoot a fawn on the opening day of ML at 70 yards wearing a heavy coat, and hit right where I was aiming. Temps were about 30 degrees.

[ScoutII]

Sabots will get deformed if loaded while the barrel is tooo warm. Maybe isn't the problem, but could be a possiblity?

[Nova]

Now I am at a total loss. here are the results and I can't figure out why. I tried to do as true of a test as possible. I had a 5'x5' piece of paper for a target with a 1" bullseye. Shooting at the exact same spot exact same position and using 2 50 grain triple 7 pellets and a T/C maxi ball 350 grain slug.

1st shot 1' left and 1' high

3 clicks right and 3 clicks down on the sights

2nd shot 3" left and 3" high

cleaned with 1 wet patch and 1 dry patch fired one cap

3rd shot off the 5'x5' target

4th shot 2' low 18" right

cleaned same way

5th shot off 5'x5' target

6th shot bullseye

cleaned same way

7th shot 2' high and 2' right

8th shot 4' low and centered left to right

9th shot off 5'x5' target

cleaned same way again

10th shot 1" left and 1" high

11th shot 1" left and centered top to bottom

12th shot 1" left and 1" low

cleaned same way

13th shot 6" right and 2' high

14th shot off 5'x5' target

cleaned same way

15th shot 1" low and centered left to right

16th shot off 5'x5' target

each time loading I made sure that the powder and slug were bottomed out and the mark on my ram rod was at the same point on the muzzle. I was shooting off of a padded rest that was very stable. I did switch to a second box of triple 7 pellets and a new box of the same bullets after the 9th shot. I check the sites and the barrel and they are not loose. only made the one site adjustment the whole time.

I think I need to call T/C on this. The gun was brand new last Christmas so this is the first season.

[Gissert]

Wow! I have no clue...I agree, a call to Thompson is in order.

[PerchJerker]

Sounds to me like a bullet / powder load problem. Did you do any/much experimenting with bullets and loads, or did you just pick that bullet hoping it would work?? Sounds like your gun shot good with a 240 grain bullet, I'd go back to that exact same bullet. Or at least bring some of them to the range so you can test your accuracy and compare other bullets to it.

I shoot a Knight. When I first sighted it in I had to try about 6 or 7 different bullets, including the ones Knight recommended, until I found two that shot well (one lighter bullet and one heavier bullet). It shoots those 2 bullets great, other ones will spray like crazy, other ones will be a mix of good shots with occasional fliers.

One other thing, assuming your planning on one shot / one kill, I would try to sight in with a clean barrel. Bullets will fly different from a clean barrel vs. a fouled barrel. Sounds like you're already trying this, just make sure your 1 wet patch and 1 dry patch is getting the gun as clean as it would be when you're hunting.

Good luck.

[Nova]

Perch, I did have decent luck with the other bullet after some spraying on initial sight in. But then when I missed a couple times I figured out that bullet started to spray on me too. That is why I tried this other bullet. I would think with a new gun that you could shoot any bullet and not be this inconsistent. I understand some bullets perform better than others in different guns, but this is way out hand.

[ScoutII]

Are the pellets dropping in staight or maybe breaking when you bottom out your bullet? I believe I read somewhere that pellets won't burn consistant if they break or crack.

[lawdog]

Boy the amount of variance there seems like more than a bullet issue to me. I mean not even hitting a 5' square is pretty wild. I think the call to T/C is in order too. That Omega is as fina a muzzleloader as anybody makes and it should shoot better than that with just about any bullet and shoot shoot deadly accurate with the right one.

[Gissert]

One more thing I thought of - How clean are you getting your breech plug? That fire hole is tiny, and maybe you are getting weak or inconsistent ignition from some fouling in the the ignition passage?

I like to soak my plug in cleaning solution overnight to get it good and clean.

[Nova]

I soak the pug for about an hour in the cleaning solution and then scrub it good with a cuetip. I tried to listen close and it sounds like the report and kick of the gun are equal each time.

I just got off the phone with the T/C gunsmith. The bullets I was shooting on this trip to the range are designed for a 1 in 48 twist and my gun is a 1 in 28 twist. He said that it would spray the slug so he suggested the 250 grain shockwaves. I will get some tonight and try them. Thanks for all the help and suggestions guys. I will post the results tomorrow. I kinda have my doubts though if I can't hit a 5'x5' target at 50 yards. we'll see.

[Hines R]

It sounds like your really doing and thinking of everything to try to control variance. The only thing you didn't mention but that are probably doing already is making sure you use close to the same amount of seating pressure every time. I haven't read anything on how cold can affect muzzleloaders. Plus your probably shooting the gun when it's at different temperatures as you continue to shoot. Could a wet patch leave small layers of ice in a cold barrel and create problems. You have to use a wet patch to clean it though otherwise the fouling would affect your accuracy.

I would call TC and see what they have to say. If you go back out to shoot try a different bullet that is supposed to shoot well out of your gun. I would also try loose Triple Seven powder. I think shooting loose powder could take out all the possible variances the pellets can cause. With everything I've read I'm really not a fan of the pellets.

It's probably just a configuration/bullet/powder problem being compounded by the cold cold weather. Could be a gun problem but you already had it sighted in at another time and it was shooting well.

I've got an article from Muzzleloading that covers the 5 shooting variable for accuracy in muzzleloading.

1. Realize your potential: Mainly talks about attention to detail and cleaning your gun. Some of the new conveniences actually handicap your shot grouping.

2. Understand Powder options: Discusses the different powders and how they can affect things. Talks about how he weighs a bunch of 50 grain pellets and found as much as a 2.3 grain variation between pellets. This means with two pellets you could be off by 4.6 grains.

"A number of in-line rifles I now shoot regularly have shown a real preference for weighed charges of Triple Seven. One has been the Thompson/Center .50 -caliber Omega."

3. Use Consistent Seating Pressure: Just says to be consistent with how hard you seat the bullet and it will help your groups to be tighter.

4. Use the Same Ignition Source: Don't switch primers from shot to shot.

5. Cleaning Matters: Cleaning between shots helps with accuracy.

6. Other Factors: Uncontrollable factors like temperature, humidity level, and even elevation will affect accuracy or point of impact.

Keep us posted!

Ryan

[Nova]

Stopped by Gander on the way home and pick up a box of T/C shockwaves 250 grain and then headed to the range. Everything the same as the day before only the new bullets. 1st 3 shots I had 2 touching the 1.5" bullseye and the third about 1/2" left. Sounds pretty good, BUT I had a nice group of 3 yesterday also. I ran a wet patch and dry patch through the barrel and shot 3 more rounds. 2 left an inch or less, perfect up and down and 1 in the black. Things are looking up. I ran 2 more patches through and fired 1 more round at 50 yards, slightly low and slightly right, but again very close to black. I refreshed the target and went to 100 yards. Cleaned the gun and fired 3 more rounds same load. 1 smack dab middle of the black one slightly left, and one slightly high and again all within an inch of the black. Feeling kinda cocky now I change my powder charge to 150 grains of 777 same slug and both rounds hit about 2" high but almost right next to each other directly above the bullseye. WOW. I refreshed the target again and shot my last 3 bullets at 100 yards with 100 grains. 2 hit black and the third was just left 3/4". I was very impressed and amazed that a bullet can make that big of a difference. With my confidence at an all time high I decided to shot 3 more rounds of the bullets I first had the gun sighted in with, 240 grain hornady sabots. one was left and high a foot each way, one was right a foot, but dead on up and down and the third was off the target...threw the rest in my kids pile of things to try in their ML. I went and got another box of T/C shockwaves for hunting and I am all set. I appreciate all the help and advice that you guys gave me. thanks a ton.

[Gissert]

Excellent! Glad you got it sorted out. I am gonna have to try those shockwaves, they sound pretty dang good.

Are you heading up this weekend? Perhaps we could have an adult beverage at the Legion?

[PerchJerker]

Always nice to hit what you're aiming at and get a confidence boost. Glad you got it worked out. Shockwaves are 1 of the 2 bullets I shoot through my Knight. Have shot 2 deer with them and been very happy with how they work.

[Nova]

Yep, I'll be up. I'm going to try get to the Legion Saturday night. If you see a couple guys with brown Kisch hunting team jackets on, the taller one is me. I am really pumped now that I have my confidence back.

[Gissert]

I'll see if I can break away too. I'll be the big guy with a Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation Hat on.