The "Great Debate"

[Juice]

ta[PoorWordUsage]- actually its soh cah toa

[Dave]

Should be any day now.

[tashit]

Lol...thanks Juice.

[kwkfsh]

The easiest way to figure area of coverage is to remember that the cone angle equals diameter at 60 ft. So 30 ft would be 1/2 of cone angle in ft, 15 ft = 1/4 of cone angle, etc, etc.

This is true for all cone angles and is easier to figure on the fly than trying to run algebra formulas in my head.

[katoguy]

Allow me to muddy the water if you will...

Cones angles vary with sensitivity/gain settings.

One sonar manufacturer may advertise a 20 degree cone angle, while another may advertise a 14 degree cone. They actually may be the same. It depends on the dB level they use while giving the rating.

(A 23 degreen cone angle @ -10dB is equivalent to a 14 degree cone angle @ -3dB.)

Also, higher sensitivity does not always mean better resolution (i.e. stereo speakers). You can have a stereo with a lot of power, but if your speakers have low wattage, then what do you end up with? Same thing with sonar units. If you send out too much power, but use a 400 watt transducer you are not dealing with an ideal situation. If you ping the transducer too hard, you may "blow your speakers"!

[TNFL]

by your figure it would be a 6.666 diameter at 20 ft or a 3.333 radius from the icehole. thanks, that is easier.

katoguy brings up a great point, marcum advertises 1500w peak to peak does that mean it transmits 1500w and recieves at 1500w or do they "blow thier speakers". It would also explain (allegedly) why some have reported problems with a vex when working near a marcum. Because the marcum is "blowing the speakers" of the vex. Any one with more knowledge have any input on this?

[Rick]

In a sense you are correct TNFL.

I will ask a Military sonar engineer to answer it properly for you if we can get him on board here.

[TNFL]

Ohhh, i see. Its okay to get on here and give the stats off the box and say marcum is better but when challenged with an indepth question the prostaff backs off.

[katoguy]

I don't think that's what Rick meant. (I also don't want to speak for Rick or put words in his mouth.) I would guess that he means this is getting kind of technical, and a expert may need to be called in to respond to your question.

[Rick]

You are correct katoguy. TNFL your question isn't indepth actually

and I'm not Pro Staff either

The answer is indepth and I believe everyone will appreciate and benefit from an expert who has been trained in the field of sonar giving all of us the answer.

I am saying TNFL is correct in a broad sort of way. The transmitter and receiver are balanced to work well together.

The explanation is actually a little more technical than that and I am truly hoping to get a sonar expert here to give us some of the finer points of the technical detail in laymans terms. I have called one and left a message. Hopefully he answers here.

[TNFL]

This ( ) means that i was joking. As I have previously stated I just bought an LX-3. Knowing the extreme details pobably won't help me put fish on the ice. I just find it interesting, and would actually be impressed if a sonar engineer comes here to explain. But also, others may need the extra info when making thier flasher decision.

[flyfshrmn]

I can't fish without my FL-18... never had any problems with interferance, but I've only fished around other Vexlars

[Deitz Dittrich]

TNFL- I got the joke.. and understood it.. Yet I also look at it from the prostaff point of view... If I do not know the answer I will not pretend to know the answer. Soit wasn;t a matter of backing off.. more a matter of not knowing the answer. All I know is what I have used, and what I have liked..

Believe it or not, the prostaff on FM is a volunteer basis. We are not paid to say what we say. Please take that into consideration when viewing our posts! We are prostaff on FM because we love the outdoors and want to share that with others.

[Rick]

Hey TNFL,

I knew you were joking. My response was also a bit tongue in cheek, as well as for those few who may not have understood you were joking

[schweady]

Remember: "19 degree, divide by 3." It just might keep yer head from 'sploding.

[Little John]

They are all good units and will all improve your success rate if used correctly. I use a vex fl-8 for one reason and one reason only; it's what I have and it works. I fish the trap attack circuit, which is dominated by Vexilar. They are a major sponsor to the circuit, but even more importantly, they have continued to deliver exceptional customer service to every one that I know. I'm sure you Marcum guys would say the same. The bottom line is that when I'm eady to upgrade I'll be open minded about what's available and fishing in tight quarters with 100 other fishermen will be part of the equation. But this year the money went for a Quigley 4x4 conversion van, gas money, and a new snowmobile trailer...Next year maybe the year for a new flasher. It will be interesting to see how my vex's signal is or isn't messed up with my new partner's marcum.

[Bob Horn]

Little John, I`m sure your partner won`t mind loaning you his LX-3 while he uses his new LX-5. This is going to be a debate that will go on as long as we have choices. I just try to give facts that have worked for me. Use the info any way you want and use whatever flasher suits you best.

[Mr. Pike1]

there is really no real debate. Each unit will do exactly what it is advertised to do. It will mark a target in the water column. Nothing more and nothing less. From there you are on your own. Neither until will produce more or less fish then the other, tell you the type, or the size of the fish. It will mark a target end of discussion. My personal preference is the FL-18 due to the color display.

Now that this is settled start spending your time making sure you are preped and ready for the time on the hard water. A few key things on the check list

- House inspection, set up in garage or house if wife will allow...Check

- New lantern mantles..Check

- All propane tanks filled and tested...Check

- Vex or Marcum fully charged...Check

- New blades on the Strikemaster auger..Check

- New gas and mix and test start auger..Check

- Head lamp batteries replaced..Check

Oh, well that is as far as I have got. It is now of to the local sporting goods store to feed the addiction with new line and a few misc...From there the rigging begins and the hope for a couple of weeks with highs in the teens...

[ryan johnson]

mr pike are you saying that the flasher will not show you how big the fish are??or am i reading your quote improperly??

[Mr. Pike1]

That is my belief but I know there are many anglers that feel differnt on that subject.

I also just saw the new Marcums have gone to the red and green of the Vex.

[fishercat]

Now yeah see I have an FL-8 and I find the more broad the band of the fish marker the larger the fish (thats if I happen to be hookin' into them at the time ) and a oh yeah...

never-had-interferance-problems-with-my-Vex...yeadah,yeadah,yeadah and so on...

[ryan johnson]

i can asure you that u can tell the difference between different size of fish..if and when rick comes up north here to shoot another monster walleye video maybe we can get some footage prooving that to you..actually it can be done just by using diffent sizes of jigs tie on a crappie jig and then use a larger walleye jig u should notice the difference imediatly...unless u have your gain turned up way to high...u should only have it up high enough to just pick up your jig and thats it..

[Mr. Pike1]

Ryan, I will not debate what you and many others believe as far as bieng to be able to discrinate size of fish. I am skeptical but will leave it at that. If however you believe you can determine the type of fish with your unit then I would take issue. If anyone finds that they can I would strongly recommend that they return the unit for a full refund as it is defective.

[Rick]

Let's not bait and switch here Mr Pike.

The disagreement Ryan brought in was flashers helping detect the size not type of fish as you are trying to ad in now.

Also all flashers are defintiely not created equal as you try to assert a few posts up. Some units do show more than others and have a crisper display for easier target identification and depth readings.

Even the new Cabelas VXR will outshine the units with old technology.

Will it help you catch more fish? That depends on your skill level and what you fish for.

[Mr. Pike1]

Rick, just stiring the pot. I am getting edgy as we approach some certain fishing downtime. The next couple of weeks will be a bit cold for the open water but not quite cold enough for that first ice.

If I inadvertantly offended anyone that was not my intent.