Lohse

[8-Ball]

What do you guys think of Lohse? I can not stand him. Everyone on the team keeps saying what great stuff he has. But, 9 times out of 10, he has a bad inning-bloop hit, error, etc., and he falls apart. That, and the fact he can't seem to get the ball over the plate when he needs to, drives me nuts. When he is forced to put the ball over, he serves up a cherry for a home run, usually. I am of the opinion that if Gassner is allowed a few more starts, and pitches like he did the other night, that Gardy should sit Lohse down for awhile. Don't just run him out there because he won an arbitration and makes $2 million a year! By the way, what was the arbitrator smoking when he awarded Lohse his deal? The guy was 8-13 last year, and he gets a $1.8 million raise?! I don't get it. I hope he gets rocked early tonight, so they can bring in someone who has command of his pitches and gets an out when he need it. Your thoughts? 8-Ball.

[Eric Wettschreck]

Although somewhat dissapointing last year, believe it or not he does have some good stuff.

Rick Anderson will get his control back into shape. He's very coachable, a great athelete, and like I said earlier, has great stuff.

I say give the kid one more year. Between himself and Rick Anderson (one of the best pitching coaches in the league) if he doesn't get his control down, then let him go.

[MrSenarighi]

I do agree that Lohse is a frustrating pitcher to watch, and that the arbitrators were smoking tree when the decision came. And even though Gassner had a good game and only allowed 3 hits, he did get hit hard. I would like to see several more starts out of him before I replace Lohse. The problem is trying to find a 4 or 5 starter as good or better(even potentially) than Lohse. If Anderson can't straighten him out, no one can. I agree, this year should be his last if he can't get that ERA under 4.25.

[Willy]

I'm not particularly fond of Lohse. I think he has the chance to be good, but cannot keep his head screwed on straight. I think with all the young pitchers we have in the system, maybe we could trade him. He might look good to other teams with his promising stuff, he is young and fairly inexpensive. Maybe we could get a lefthanded setup man or some type of middle infield prospect. What do you guys think?

[8-Ball]

I agree, Willy. Boiler- I did not say he does not have good stuff-he does. But having good stuff, and having command and location, are two different things. He has had four years to get it straightened out. Other than one season, he has not done it. Yeah, Anderson is a good pitching coach, and Lohse is a decent athlete. I just don't want this to turn out to be another Willie Banks or Rich Robertson-where we heard for years, but only occasionally saw, decent stuff. By the time the staff finally put up the white flag, we did'nt get squat for either one of those stiffs. 8-Ball.

[pikehunter]

I get frustrated with him too, more by the fact that his stuff is so good, but his results are so bad. He's tough to figure out, and just doesn't hit his spots well enough.

That said, a good point was made - as a number four or five guy, at least he has a chance to give you a quality start every once in a while, which is more than you can say for alot of teams. That's why even the best teams shrink their rotations to four guys in the playoffs.

You could try to trade him, but what are you going to get for a guy with a career 41-40 record and a 4.89 ERA? You're probably looking at only getting prospects and projects (just like Loshe) anyway.

If you can get 10-15 wins out of your late-rotation guy, you should be elated, and Loshe can do that. Even the World Series champions of 87 and 91 had this same problem. Actually, in 87, only two pitchers managed double digits in wins. Loshe is at least servicable in the role that Les Straker, Allan Anderson and Joe Niekro have all served before him.

[Eric Wettschreck]

8-ball, I agree. That's why I say give the kid one more year. If Rick Anderson can't get his command and control down, no one can. Yes, it's frustrating to watch sometimes. But, I have to remember where in the rotation he is.

I'll admit that as a Twins fan (big time) I easily fall into the trap. Radke and Santana are a pretty tough one two punch. Now, throw in Mays if he stays healthy and things are looking pretty darn good. I watch a game with Johan on the mound and then wonder why Loshe isn't as good. I think he will fit in very well as the #4 or #5 guy IF he can get control and hit his spots. If not, after this year, get rid of him because yes, we have some good prospects waiting in the wings.

[Down to Earth]

have to agree with pikehunter here. If he were a 1-3 guy it would be a lot more frustrating watching him out there on the mound. But being a 4-5 guy in the rotation, I'd say we aren't all that bad off. Unless we have someone who can step in with better production, I think its too early to give up on the guy.

[The Grebe]

He can pitch some, thats no doubt, but with his erratic outings, he sure does'nt instill confidence that he can get the job done!

I always cringe when he is pitching, but the Twins management know what they are doing and they must see something beyond his up and down performances?

Although Radke is an ace, it seemed he had no run support in past years and he would lose games when we were ahead. I got to cringing when Radke came up in the rotation in big games, because it seemed that alot of bad karma followed him...sometimes he was'nt even in the game, he was in the dugout! He worked his way through it, maybe Lohse will to?

[bigbucks]

Lohse usually keeps us in the game for 5-6 innings & sometimes pitches much better than that. He's too young to give up on & we've got other guys we can rely on.

[koWALLEYEski]

I think that are worries are with Silva. This guy can really pitch up there. I remember bert saying that he is a pitcher now instead of a thrower on the mound. We need to get him healthy. He is a very vaulable asset to the twins. Lohse will come through.

[bigbucks]

I agree, Silva can pitch.

[8-Ball]

Lohse- same mistakes, different night. He did it again, as expected, I'm afraid. Poor location, can't get the ball over. So, Chi-town hitters sit back and wait for the cheese to come in, which Lohse is forced to do because he can't get the &@!%#@&* ball over the plate. We go up 3-1, BOOM- Lohse gives it right back. Next inning, another guy gets on, and he grooves a letter-high cheeseball to Everett, who smoked one over the fence in the 1st inning. Lohse's line: 5 ip, 7 hits, 5 earned runs, 3 home runs. He has now given up 7 home runs in 16 innings. I am a die-hard Twins fan. Been watching this stiff do this for four years. I disagree w/ those that say don't give up yet. He is almost 27, and keeps doing the same thing on the mound- game, after game, after game.. Get him in the pen, or get rid of him.

[buzzsaw]

Quote:

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We go up 3-1, BOOM- Lohse gives it right back. Next inning, another guy gets on, and he grooves a letter-high cheeseball to Everett

---

He did the same stuff all of last year, he has no mental makeup whatsoever! He always gives it right back!! He must just kill the clubhouse moral! Did I mention Carl Everett is an A-hole, so it stinks worse when a classless fool like him beats your team.

[Captain B.R.K]

OVER RATED and can't stand the stuff he puts over the plate!

[Dotch]

Head case; long reliever.

[Proctor Pete]

Yankees are always looking for Pitching....hmmmmmm

[Down to Earth]

I thought of a new nickname for him.

How does "Long Ball Lohse" sound?

[Jarrod32]

The first HR to Everett was actually a pretty good pitch...it had good downward movement, and Everett just went down and golfed it...same with the pitch that Crede hit his HR on.

In the first few innings, Lohse's stuff had pretty good movement on it...but he seemed to lose it in the middle innings.

With Santana, Radke, and Silva (if he can stay healthy) at the top of the rotation, it actually makes it easier to make changes at the bottom. If Lohse doesn't get it together, you'll see Baker and/or Durbin get opportunities sometime this summer...

[pikehunter]

Loshe made several big mistakes tonight, and they were all of the same variety, he left pitches in the middle of the plate. Movement and vertical location doesn't matter much when a big leaguer can extend his arms against you. He's throwing. He needs to pitch.

But overall, he didn't pitch poorly, just paid miserably for a few of his mistakes. And I thought Gardy left him in too long. I don't know what it is, but he's losing his stuff early in the game at this point. He gave up a game-tying shot and three other hard-hit balls in the fifth and you could see it coming. If you remember he had the same thing happen in the Twins home opener, when he gave up two home runs in the sixth.

As far as giving up the lead, well, it's easy to say he should keep the lead, but almost every pitcher will tell you, one of the hardest things to do is go back out and keep a team off the board after your squad has rallied.

I actually thought he pitched allright, just made two or three horrible pitches at the wrong time. Gassner did the same thing this weekend, and just didn't have to pay for them the way Loshe did.

The bottom line is: He's our No.5, and he gave us a chance to win. Not many teams can say that on a given night.

[Willy]

With Santana, Radke, Silva, and if Mays keeps up his pitching, I think they need to move Lohse into the 5 spot. Let Mays have the starts. At least he is fairly mentally tough and can keep you in games. With Lohse as our fifth starter, I really like to Twins rotation. That way he only has to pitch maybe 2-3 times a month and I can live with that. Either that or dump him and let the new kid try his hand at the 5th spot. He sure looked pretty good the other night! However, I'm sure Gardy wants to nurse Mays back and will keep his load light and keep Lohse in the 4 hole once Silva returns. It really doesn't matter because in the playoffs, old Lohsey is as far away from the game as I am!

[8-Ball]

I wish, but it probably won't happen, that they would put him in the pen. Maybe seeing someone else take his spot for a few starts would wake him up? I think mgmt. is reluctant to sit him, based on the fact that he is making a ridiculous and way overpriced 2.5 miilion a year. As I said, he can't get the ball OVER the plate. He is then forced to come in w/ cheese. The hitters on the other teams all know this about him. They just sit back, watch the count get to 2-0, then wait for the cream pie to float across the plate so they can put it in the cheap seats. Those of you that don't see it that way- think back to his home opener-very same scenario. It has been played out this way with him start after start, year after year. Yeah, the offense blew their chances last night. But it would be nice if when this guy pitches the boys don't have to feel the need to score 6 or more runs to win when this guy is on the hill. 8-Ball.

[pikehunter]

8-Ball,

I agree that control is a factor with Mr. Loshe, but the guys who hurt him last night certainly weren't sitting around waiting for the count to get to 2-0. They were jumping on pitches early in the count because Loshe has a tendency to catch too much of the plate as he tries to get ahead early. The counts on last night's homeruns were 1-1 (Everett in first), 1-0 (Crede in fifth) and 0-0 (Everett in sixth).

What I would actually like to see is a platoon system for the No. 4 or 5 spot, with one of the farm hands and Loshe. Put the odd man out in the pen for an extra arm on his "off" week and trade starts each time the spot comes up. Of course, Mauer's knee is still limiting any flexibility they have with the roster. I agree, Loshe is a pretty frustrating guy to watch right now, but I just don't think we have a better option currently. Then again, I suppose you never know unless you try.

[8-Ball]

Good Point Pike- I swore they were on 2-0 counts.. Yeah, lets platoon him w/ Gassner. At least there is someone on his tail, pushing him to wake up, (if possible w/ him.)

[Willy]

I would like to see that also. It would be nice to give the other kid a chance after he pitched so well the other night. He gets another chance tomorrow I think so that will help a decision. If he pitches well though, they would have to send someone down to make rooms for him when Silva returns. Likely either be Guerrier or Corky Miller. Then when Morneau comes back you have to either ditch Tiffee or LeCroy. I wouldn't mind seeing LeCroy shipped and keep Tiffe around to back-up Cuddyer and Morneau.