30.06 versus 7MM

[Ole1855]

I own a Rem. 700 BDL and Rem. 740 .308 that I use for deer hunting. Many years ago I just had to have the 7 mag. but after using it for a couple of years I went back to using my .308 and here's why. When I would shoot a deer, lung shot, and I'd catch a rib either entering or exiting, the exit hole was big enough to stick a volleyball into. Heaven forbid, that you'd catch part of the shoulder blade, the holes were huge. I now only bring the 7 mag. along as a back-up gun, the reason for that is, I fell out of a tree once and broke my .308 and had to use the mag. for back-up.

And as several people have mentioned the recoil of the 700 BDL is pretty abusive, my friend has a Browning BAR 7 mag. and it's much more fun to shoot.

Ole

[jigstick44]

I appreciate the offer on the shooting, but I have shot a 30.06 already and a guy who lives not too far from me said I can shoot his 7MM anytime (he's the one pushing me to get the 7MM, says it's the "man's gun"). As of right now I am leaning towards the 30.06 knowing that is all I should need for hunting in MN. If I were to get the opportunity to go out west I would probably borrow or buy a 7MM since I don't see it happening in the near future. But who knows, once I see the guns and hold them up and get a chance to compare them, it might be a whole new ball game. Thanks again for the offer!

[18 inch Crappie]

Remington 700 .06 all the way Bdl or Adl bolt all the way, put a good scope on and do not look back. Black w/ss with floating barrel and a leopold is what I use, put it this way 4 rounds in the same hole 100yards..... remington core lock 165grain

[Cooter]

If '06 and Rem 700 is your choice I'd suggest looking at the Mtn rifle w/lam. stock and stainless action/barrel.

[Canuck]

Jigstick44: So, what did U settle on? No matter what cal or model I am sure if U get comfortable with it, it will do U just fine.

[Tripleplay]

Looks like you've definitely generated some activity with your question! Until this past year I shot a .06, Remington pump and it was a great gun in the woods and the shorter type shots you mentioned. The property I have hunted on for the last 4-5 years is a large hay field and I'll be honest that although I changed grain bullets and such it just wasn't the best setup for the longer distance shooting. Finally made the change this year and a bolt action was a requirement with a much better, variable scope as well. I had intended to puchase the 7mm WSM new after a bunch of research (and against the advice of my nephew and brother-in-law up in Alaska who don't care for the 7mm on moose--not trying to start this up again and I think it was an issue with the bullet/grain and overall shooting ability of the one time they saw the 7mm in action on moose in Alaska!). Ended up bumping into a Browning A-bolt used in the 7mm Mag with a better scope than I was even thinking about buying! Sold. Paired with the right bullet, I had the best hunting season for whitetails I could have ever imagined.

Either caliber will do the job for you but my honest opinion is that a short, barreled, quick action rifle would be best for your short distance shooting and I'd pick my .06 pump over my 7mm mag bolt for that need.

[tealitup]

I hunted for the first 10 years with a 30-06. Killed many deer and two bear. I then had a chance to hunt in Colorado for Elk. I bought a 7MM WSM. I was leary about the difference with recoil, however, with the addition of a quality stock pad - it felt less then my 30-06.

I went to Africa last year and had to buy the big one! a .375 - now you want to talk about recoil! Anyways, off the subject.

Rifles now a days are different then those made even 5 years ago. The after market add-ons can help any hunter in his ability to shoot better.

If you go with any gun, make sure you shoot it many times. Too many hunters only go out and "sight-in" their rifles right before hunting season. A person dedicated to make the clean shot will shoot many more times then that.

I agree with the statement "buy a good scope." I found both in Africa, Colorado and here in Minnesota that a quality scope will yield higher results.

If you only hunt in an area where your shots will be about 50-100 yards - seriously look at a shot gun. The slug ammunition is far superior then what is given credit. In fact, I go to Texas to hunt hogs about two times a year. A shotgun while stocking is better then any rifle. A hog is alot harder to bring down then a deer. Plus, on those days where you see nothing, or want to do a drive for someone after you have shot your deer - grouse hunting can be a great thing to do during the season. Nothing like fresh bird at deer camp.

Ok well I think I have written enough to give you some better areas to study. If you are around the Elk River area you can shoot either of my rifles if you would like.

[Canuck]

Tealitup: How do U like your 7 WSM? I have been looking at the A Bolt and stainless with a synthic stock in the WSM for our moose hunt, ( we spend a week in the canoe). I like the short barrel and throw. I know the 7 WSM is different ballistics than the 7 Rem Mag. and therefore thought I might have to go to the 300 WSM.

Sure wouldn't mind hearing your thoughts on this gun.

[tealitup]

I do like the 7MM WSM. When I do go down to Texas we shoot alot of hogs. Me and my hunting partner thought we would do our own ballistics testing for killing power when shooting through the plate guard on a hog.

What we found at an average of 100 yards for a rifle is:

300 Win Mag was the best overall

7MM WSM was a close second

30-06 was the worst- well the one I killed with a knife was the worst, but who counts that stupid bet.

We did this for one trip - I think it was 18 hogs in all. We shot all hogs in one place - flat land with quality optics.

If I were going to go Moose hunting would I bring my 7MM WSM? Well I have an advantage of having a .300 WIN MAG. So I do not know. I would bring it alog for sure.

Actaully, yes I would recommend the gun with quality optics and a bonded style bullet. If you practice alot to be confident in your shot before you go - you should have no problems at all.

I would practice on a variety of bullet stops using a variety of bullets. You can buy some different gellatine style molds that are made for the type of game you hunt, on the Internet.

If you go, let me know which gun you went with and how did it do. I have only shot a moose with bow and arrow so I cant tell you from first hand knowledge.

[Canuck]

Tealitup: Thanks, I have been fortunate enough to have had the opportunity to shoot 9 moose with my 7mmRem Mag. all were with a full 7 load with a 180 Barnes. I like the gun but it is in a Parker Hale 1200C (lots of guys don't like it but I got lucky and have a good one). The gun is alittle long especially for the canoe and it isn't stainless and being in the boat for a week it gets wet, never mind the snow or rain we usually get in late sept early oct. That is the reason why I was figuring on getting another gun (I don't have enough, 31 last count) and figured the WSM was the way to go.

I totally agree with U, one must practice and get to know his gun and optics is as important as the cal etc. Thanks for your imput. I get real sick when I see the cheap prices in the US when I make trips to Grand Forks. A WSM with stainless and synthic is about 1400 in Canada.

Never hunted hogs, YET. They are few and far between in Manitoba. I mainly hunt whitetail and moose with the gun and with the bow, deer and elk.

[lawdog]

I can't quote ballistics anywhere near like the guys on here already have, and I have no doubt there are better rounds out there than my '06, but I've NEVER felt undergunned for whitetail or muley with it and it would surely suffice for any hunting you'll do in MN. I am using it this fall for Elk in Colorado too, and I really don't feel I'm undergunned. Sure if I could buy a gun just for this trip I'd probably go with the 300 or something else anyway, but the 30-06 is a good gun and it will kill for me out there as it has MANY MANY times already everywhere else I use it.

Man I bet this poor guy is more confused than ever after going through all this stuff!

If you want to play around a little with ballistic charts, Remington has a FREE program called Remington SHOOT that lets you put in there various bullets, calibers and compare them as well as getting full ballistic charts for your rounds. Its on their HSOforum, I've used it a lot to get to know my gun and pick my elk load for next fall...

GOOD LUCK!!!!

PS. I just want to echo one other thing so many have said. Whatever gun you pick, the REAL secret is shooting it and getting familiar with it so you can make the shot when it counts. Good Glass is great too!!!!

[jigstick44]

Well Fellas, I made the purchase on saturday. After about an hour of being utterly confused on choices, I found the gun for me. I bought a Browning A Bolt II Stainless Stalker 30.06. I picked it up and I knew right away that was the gun. It felt nice and felt like it was made for me. This thing is beautiful, now I can't wait for hunting season. I still have to purchase a scope and other accessories, but at least the gun part is done. Thanks again to everybody who gave their input and opinions.

[lawdog]

Good purchase, so now we get to talk scopes...

Have you decided on any? I'm a big fan of the Leupolds the Vari XII is a good affordable option and the Vari XIII is the cat's meow. Get a variable. You won't need a real high power on the top end, nothing more than 7 or 8 probably ever for deer. Get a bigger objective lens if you can, it lets more light in. My Vari XII is a 3X9X40 and its a good scope. Nikon also makes good glass for the money.

[tealitup]

Lawdog: You make some quality points in your posts. I know alot of people who have hunted Elk with an .06 - their only concern was the non-flat shooting part. You have a quality scope - an upgrade will give you the advantage to sight in your weapon with more then the standard 150 yards. Elk hunting you may need to reach out a littl farther if you are comfortable.

You could get some glass with multiple yardage points to help you even more if the chance of a lifetime comes across. Great luck to you. I am also heading to Colorado to go Elk hunting this year, but going with a bow.

Anyone ever shot the new switchback bow?

[Jackpine Rob]

I picked up a Burris Fullfield II in 3-9 for my varmint rifle this past fall, and liked it so well (especially for the price) that I bought another one and put it in the safe, to go on top of my "out-West" rifle, which is still in the planning stages.

Lots of guys like extra magnification - but 3-9 is a real nice compromise between the lower and higher power scopes - probably the reason it is so popular.

[almostthere!]

Nice purchase. Welcome to the world of Abolt-II users. That is money well spent.

Don't sell yourself short by purchasing a cheap scope. Spend at least half the value of the gun on a scope. That should put you into the $450 range. You can get some awesome scopes in that price range.

Here are my choices: Zeiss Conquest ($449-$469), Leupold VX-III ($429-$449), and Nikon Monarch UCC ($299-) all in 3x9x40.

[cyberamish]

I'll give a vote for the Nikon Monarch UCC 3-9. I put that scope on my A-Bolt II and absolutely love it!!

[Canuck]

jigstick44: Nice gun, real glad for you. I am sure U will be happy with it. Get to know your gun, its limitations and benefits and U should have NO problems.

I am going to sit back and listen on the sugguestions on glass because I have not purchased a new scope for a few years and they have greatly improved what used to be out there. I did buy a good pair of binos a couple of yrs ago and don't regret it one bit. Alittle pricey but well worth it, actually 2 yrs ago they got us a moose. My partners glasses could not pick out the moose with his binos but these sure did and allowed us to stack it with no problem.

Have they made a scope YET that U can use as a range finder and switch over to a scope and I don't mean one that U put the shoulders of the animal between 2 bars and it is suppose to be so far but an acutal range finder?

I am going to check out the HSOforum on the ballastics on the 7 & 300 WSMs, thanks.

[lawdog]

Quote:

---

Don't sell yourself short by purchasing a cheap scope. Spend at least half the value of the gun on a scope. That should put you into the $450 range. You can get some awesome scopes in that price range.

Here are my choices: Zeiss Conquest ($449-$469), Leupold VX-III ($429-$449), and Nikon Monarch UCC ($299-) all in 3x9x40.

---

Interesting story. The guy I'm applying to go Elk hunting with, was debating between the Zeiss conquest and the Leupold Vari XIII, two of the scopes you mention. A month or so ago, he talked to a guy at a VERY LARGE AND WELL KNOWN retailer's gun shop who put it to him this way... He was talking up the Leupold a lot and my buddy asked him what he thought about the Zeiss. All he said was, yep, that's a good scope too and then he went back to talking about the Leupold. My buddy said, you don't seem real impressed by that Zeiss.

His response I think sums it all real well. He said No, I said its a real good scope, I've only had one come back with problems in all my years. My buddy said, sounds good, but you sure seem to like the Leupold better. He further responded, I've sold probably ten times as many of them, and I've never had one come back. Plus, if I ever did have a problem, they are in Oregon, not Germany. But, like I said, the Zeiss is a good scope and I'll gladly sell it to you...

Just some food for thought.

[lawdog]

Quote:

---

Lawdog: You have a quality scope - an upgrade will give you the advantage to sight in your weapon with more then the standard 150 yards. Elk hunting you may need to reach out a littl farther if you are comfortable.

You could get some glass with multiple yardage points to help you even more if the chance of a lifetime comes across. Great luck to you. I am also heading to Colorado to go Elk hunting this year, but going with a bow.

---

I know what you are saying Teal, but I guess to me, I don't want to be taking 300+ yard shots anyway. If I can't get closer than that, I don't know that I've earned a crack at him, and I'll surely not try a shot I'm not totally confident in anyway. All depends on the varying conditions, positions, rests, etc. I guess. I don't think new glass is in the cards right now anyway.

Mostly, I just need to get drawn for a license now!!!! I've never been there before and I'm really looking forward to going.

[tealitup]

Lawdog- Keep in touch and let me know how you did. The best of luck to you.

[jigstick44]

For sure the next thing on my list is a scope, but that won't be for a little while until I can get some more cash. I want to throw the nicest glass I can afford on it while not selling myself short. I guess I really touched a good subject with all of the replies I have seen.

[wildirishrose]

I have all Nikon glass (scope and binos) and have not been disapointed. The term "you get you pay for" applies in optics. What I use is middle of road, my Dad's buddy has all Zeiss optics ($2,000 to $3,000) and you can really tell the difference in "real world" conditions. You can't see the difference in the store. But for MN hunting the Nikon equipment I have has been "perfect" so far. By the way the scope sits on top of a Ruger 77 7MM. An '06 is a great caliber also with lots of factory bullet weights if you're not into reloading. Good luck this fall and shoot straight.