Wild Regular Season 2017-18

[Bear55]

Soon? Foligno still not signed yet, funny part is the cap space we have left is less than the salary he made last year. Hope the kids is ok taking a pay cut because at this point he is a solid 4th liner. Hope he works out better than expected (ennis too). 

BB I think you saw all the fireworks you are going to see with that ugly pommers/scandella trade. Just be happy we got Granny and Nino signed to reasonable deals. Sure it would be great to get a game breaker but it likely costs us too much in a trade, people don't just give those guys away. We will win by committee as usual, and probably go as far as the younger group will carry us. The vets are great players and can hold their own and then some but I don't know if they will be able to step up and will us to a cup or conference finals. 

4th line should be much improved this year, maybe the forward depth a little better, need to hope those break out seasons by a few guys are the new normal. D should be ok but a little weaker, need to rest Dubs during the season so he is playing his best by the end of the year. 

[bbfenatic]

Gotta love the new motto......pretty much what I've been saying for way too long....a couple on this board will get all nervous about it and worried that it is being too tough on some guys that really try hard and are always taking the "maybe next year" approach....but at least the Wild seem to understand how the fans feel about continual letdowns.

"Good isn't Good Enough"

Last year it was "Now Is Our Time" ....to dissapoint again?....to make another early exit from the playoffs?...to Pi$$ another year down the drain?

IMO they should be pretty darn good and with watered down rosters from the expansion draft...playoffs for sure...but we'll see if they are Good Enough for a Cup run.

 

 

 

[Bear55]

Oh bb always on edge, why not just cheer for the Pens/Hawks and win cup after cup? If it was easy everyone would be doing it, new season and we have a quality team so we have a chance and that is all we can ask for. Just need to be clicking at the right time of year, obviously we were not. 

In other news we signed Foligno to a kind of ugly contract, hope Fletcher sees something I don't be cause almost 3 million for a guy who has a career high 23 points is very meh. They have him penciled into our 3rd line and I just don't see it, hope he proves me wrong. 

[bbfenatic]

Bear... think BB's stance on getting tougher/grittier pushed Fletch to get Foligno (or someone like him)...need more guys who can stand out front, create some havoc and hopefully the puck would land on a players stick who can put it away.  Nice to have skilled players but come playoff time the Blues locked down in front and toughness was just not there for us....Foligno's agent had Fletch over a barrel IMO.

I'm concerned about Parise's back...he's already hurting just in skating drills...he will never be they player he was...just hoping he can play a good number of games..but we won't see him mucking it up in front of the net like the good old days IMO.  This team will live and die with our "next generation". They've proven in spurts they can carry the team...and Dubs will need to be stellar again for them to be better than just good IMO.

 

[Bear55]

I think we need to start thinking about Parise as more of a 3rd line player, he needs to find a way to play a little smarter and stay healthy. This isn't a bad thing, just more a reflection of his age, health & our depth up front. Hopefully playing against lesser competition also gives the other teams fits. 

[CaptainMusky]

On ‎9‎/‎15‎/‎2017 at 10:04 AM, Bear55 said:

I think we need to start thinking about Parise as more of a 3rd line player, he needs to find a way to play a little smarter and stay healthy. This isn't a bad thing, just more a reflection of his age, health & our depth up front. Hopefully playing against lesser competition also gives the other teams fits. 

Yikes, if Parise is to be a 3rd liner at this stage, what will he be when he is nearing the end of his contract? Afterall, he is signed through 2025.

I do agree though, his game needs to change, but I don't think putting him on the 3rd line is a good idea. Those guys tend to be more physical than 1st or 2nd liners. Unless the coaches are doing the matchup shuffle and the 3rd line is against the 1st, etc.

[bbfenatic]

12 minutes ago, CaptainMusky said:

Yikes, if Parise is to be a 3rd liner at this stage, what will he be when he is nearing the end of his contract? Afterall, he is signed through 2025.

 

He'll be living over at Sunrise watching the games on TV unless he takes an early buyout and quits while he can still function...he's had a great career....but has certainly paid the price for his style.

Suter is an opposite story...at his pace and the "soft style" he plays he could stick around till he's 50 

 

[Bear55]

Just think about an older Parise having some fun with 3 pairing d-men, not that he can't still play up but this way we are pleasantly surprised if he has a couple of good seasons left. The last five years of that contract are going to be brutal. 

[Bear55]

Koivu 2 more years at 5.5, love the term, cap is ok too I guess as long as he doesn't fall off a cliff. Was hoping for something a little cheaper but oh well. 

[bbfenatic]

15 hours ago, Bear55 said:

Koivu 2 more years at 5.5, love the term, cap is ok too I guess as long as he doesn't fall off a cliff. Was hoping for something a little cheaper but oh well. 

I don't like the move at all...why not let him play out the year to see how he holds up?  He's not going anywhere at this point...no other team would offer him near that much after this season. $5 Milllion and $6 Million per year are way too much...Cullen is just as good at $1M

The roster is looking younger and other than Parise/Suter we should have the overhaul done by 2019...2020 at the latest and I am liking that!

 

[Bear55]

Cullen is nowhere near as good and we don't have anyone ready to step into that 1/2 roll yet. Ek might be the guy someday but he is a rookie. On the open market Hansel just got 4.75 and he is nowhere near as good as Koivu either. Its a little high but we need him. Ideally Ek steps up and Koivu is a 2/3 guy by the time this is up. 

Even at the same age Cullen was putting up 40 points to Mikko's 58 and is not better defensively. Cullen has never had a 50 point season, Koivu with 7 of them. 

[CaptainMusky]

29 minutes ago, Bear55 said:

Cullen is nowhere near as good and we don't have anyone ready to step into that 1/2 roll yet. Ek might be the guy someday but he is a rookie. On the open market Hansel just got 4.75 and he is nowhere near as good as Koivu either. Its a little high but we need him. Ideally Ek steps up and Koivu is a 2/3 guy by the time this is up. 

Even at the same age Cullen was putting up 40 points to Mikko's 58 and is not better defensively. Cullen has never had a 50 point season, Koivu with 7 of them. 

I agree. Koivu is worth it, I was hoping for less, but there are so many haters that look past his stats to really see where his value is. Didn't he just lead the league in +/- last year? mid 50% faceoff win %, very prominent on penalty kill, etc. I love the Cullen signing, but he isn't the same player Koivu is.

I was vocally negative on Koivu 3 years ago, but since then he has strung together 2 very good seasons. Apparently he listened. :-)

[bbfenatic]

I guess we'll see in 8/9 months if he's worth $6 Million.....my point is they could have waited and resigned him in the off season for less...he never would have gotten that elsewhere...never...just leaving money on the table that could be spent more wisely elsewhere IMO. 

Surpirsed he hasn't extended Parise/Suter for another 5 yrs at $9M/yr beyond the 10 he already signed them for 

 

[bbfenatic]

Interesting take via Judd Sulgad on the Koivu Signing:

 

Perhaps most galling about all of this is Michael Russo of The Athletic tweets there is a no-move clause in Koivu’s extension. Why on earth would Fletcher agree to include a no-move clause in an aging player’s contract? It’s bad enough when you give a no-move clause to a productive player who suddenly hits the cliff but in Koivu’s case there was no reason to do this.

Heck, there was no reason to give him any type of extension in the first place.

He also was entering the final season of a seven-year, $47.25 million contract that will pay him $5.4 million in 2017-18. Allowing Koivu to play out that contract made perfect sense. If he had productive 2017-18, he might be brought back but there also was the potential that his money could have been used on a younger, more attractive talent.

Koivu is coming off a productive 2016-17 season in part because he was able to move from first- to second-line center playing behind 32-year-old Eric Staal. Koivu had 18 goals and 58 points and was a plus-27 in 80 games, spending much of the season with Mikael Granlund and Jason Zucker on his wings.

Like many Wild players, Koivu didn’t do much in the Wild’s five-game first-round playoff loss to the Blues. He had one goal, one assist and was a minus-1. All of this set up Koivu with the opportunity to return this season and prove he could remain a productive and durable player. When it came to Koivu’s contract, the Wild finally was in an ideal spot.

That is no longer the case.

Instead, the Wild has Koivu locked up for three more years and, thus, put themselves right back in the type of salary-cap situation they should be trying to escape.

[Bear55]

There is no way Koivu doesn't get more term and $$ in free agency, not a lot more but he gets more. Marleau is trending down and got more money, Hansel got 750 less and is not in the same league as Koivu. I was hoping for something like 4.5 or 5 but what he got at 2 years is very reasonable. He is a lifelong wild, our captain and a great player, we have no immediate replacement, he makes our team better for the next 3 years be it 1/2/3 center. This isn't something to get upset about, scandella trade sure, aging parise sure but that had to be done, not getting a young center sure but that can sometimes be out of our control because it takes two teams to trade. I get it people are bitter about last year but what fan base isn't bitter about this or that? 

[CaptainMusky]

17 hours ago, bbfenatic said:

my point is they could have waited and resigned him in the off season for less...he never would have gotten that elsewhere...never...just leaving money on the table that could be spent more wisely elsewhere IMO. 

You know there are no guarantees that he signs here for less money. He certainly would have gotten more elsewhere after this season based on comparables.

Who are the replacements for him? We have guys that may be a year or two removed from being a top 6 guy, but this buys us time. Worst case he slides down to 3rd or 4th line and one of our young guys still on an ELC elevates if his game drops. He could also be consistent with his last two seasons, a solid #2 center and allow the likes of Kunin and Ek to develop down the lineup.

[bbfenatic]

Like I stated earlier and others with more knowledge than anyone on here have as well..we should have waited...I also was unaware of the no trade clause which he was able to get without any less $$...pure stupidity...we'll know in 8/9 months how this pans out...it boot straps us from further improving the team with younger talent is my main issue.

As far as a captain, lifelong wild...blah blah blah....if he is such a pillar, such a great player, such a leader of the team...where has he taken us? The playoff record speaks for itself....time to dump guys like Koivu at the soonest opportunity who have done all they can or at least decrease their pay in later years not increase them...they took us as far as they could...and we've already got vets like Parise, Suter, Spurgeon, Granlund, Coyle, Brodin locked in on long term deals; give one of them the C to carry us forward.

 

[CaptainMusky]

Come on BB, you are better than that. You as much as anyone know that ONE player doesn't make an NHL Team a Stanley Cup contender so why put that blame on him. Sure, a player like Crosby certainly helps, but we aren't talking about the money that Crosby is getting here either.

Comparing Koivu's contracts to equivalent players with similar production is quite compelling. He has performed better than many of his peers for his current contract and with the lower AV of his new deal if he continues similar numbers it will be a bargain.

I wasn't too happy about the NMC either, but I take that as a bargaining chip so CF didn't have to go with a longer term deal. 2 years is sufficient and I think it works well for both parties.

You are right, there are many people out there with more knowledge about the market and what he could have gotten elsewhere and when it may have made sense to sign him, but the fact is you don't want to wait to sign him until after the season for if no other reason at all than to allow him to be a UFA and hear other offers.

This will be my last post about the Koivu extension because clearly we don't see eye to eye on whether it made/makes sense, but I assure you there are a large number of "hockey minds" that are in agreement with me on this.

Here is some afternoon reading for you:

https://www.hockeywilderness.com/2017/9/20/16332552/mikko-koivu-contract-extension-minnesota-wild-criticism-overpaid-chuck-fletcher-cap-space

[bbfenatic]

Good stuff but time wiill tell. Not buying the "oh we might lose him as a UFA"...so what, with that kind of money we could buy just as good and younger to give us more of a future...which we desparately need to be thinking about.  Fletch is walking a tightrope and it is going to break IMO.

[Bear55]

Free agency is far from a sure thing, if there are young centers out there (big if) you have to compete with maybe 10 or 20 other teams and pay way over what you should. You have control of nothing and are at the whims of a player everyone is chasing. Same with trades, very easy to swing and miss. By most account we were in on Ryan Johansen with the Preds but Columbus wanted Jones over Brodin and I don't blame them. 

Edited September 20, 2017 by Bear55

[lungdeflator]

Koivu, Suter, Parise, and Staal are are good players....right now.  They are really the heart and soul of the team.  But the youngest one is Suter at 32.  The tail end of all 4 contracts are going to suck.  2019-2020-2021 are going to be tough cap years and trying to sign FA if these guys fall off.  Parise is already falling apart.  Koivu has missed a bunch of games.  Who knows when all the minutes Suter has acccumulated will catch up to him.  Even if 2-4 or 3-4 of these guys fall off, it leaves a big hole.  

I really hope they make some very deep runs the next 2 years.  If not, we could be looking back 3-4 years from now wishing we could go back to the glory days lol.  

Haven't watched any preseason action.  Really hoping Stalock can soak up some games this year and keep Dubs fresh.  

[hoppe56307]

20 hours ago, lungdeflator said:

Koivu, Suter, Parise, and Staal are are good players....right now.  They are really the heart and soul of the team.  But the youngest one is Suter at 32.  The tail end of all 4 contracts are going to suck.  2019-2020-2021 are going to be tough cap years and trying to sign FA if these guys fall off.  Parise is already falling apart.  Koivu has missed a bunch of games.  Who knows when all the minutes Suter has acccumulated will catch up to him.  Even if 2-4 or 3-4 of these guys fall off, it leaves a big hole.  

I really hope they make some very deep runs the next 2 years.  If not, we could be looking back 3-4 years from now wishing we could go back to the glory days lol.  

Haven't watched any preseason action.  Really hoping Stalock can soak up some games this year and keep Dubs fresh.  

I agree most of this other than Koivu missing a bunch of games.  He has been as steady as they come the last 3 years, playing 80, 82, and 80 games respectively.  

[CaptainMusky]

Koivu has been very healthy the last 3 years, but that doesn't mean it will continue. I agree though, he has had a healthy stretch here and that is good because he has been healthy and played very very well during that time.

IDK what to think about Parise at this stage. I am a huge fan of his, but he is really hurting this team if he plays injured. I hope he goes on LTIR. This would help in a couple ways, free up some more cap space to bring up Kunin (sent to Iowa today) and possibly keep Winnick around (Boudreau really wants him). Without that happening I don't think we are going to see much of Kunin and Winnick will sign elsewhere because we really don't have the money unless they move someone like Stewart (send him to Iowa?).

 

[hoppe56307]

I do not get the Parise thing either, if it was this much of an issue he should have known long before training camp, and had it addressed earlier.

[Bear55]

Probably tweeked it during training camp, a lot can go wrong with the back but hopefully he figures something out soon, lots of years on that contract. Hey maybe he can go on LTIR and we can get some cap savings, is that even possible? That or someone get him into a yoga studio because whatever he is doing it isn't working.