Frankfurter (hot dogs) Recipe Critique Needed

[thirdeye]

As many of you know... I've been making fresh and smoked sausage for many years and this month made my first batch of frankfurters. I didn't have any issues with grinding, emulsifying, stuffing (first time with sheep casings too) or poaching... here are a couple of photos.

 

I'm close on the flavor but I need more zip in the seasonings, and not quite sure where to start. Some of the signature seasonings are in small amounts, and a lot of standard seasonings are in tablespoons, so bumping some things might overshadow the others. Would you mind taking a look at the seasoning ratios and make any comments. All are appreciated.

Meat 4.75 pounds total  (3 pounds ground pork, 1.5 pounds ground chuck, .25 pounds of pork fat), I added the following:

1 Tablespoon Smoked Paprika

1 Tablespoon Dry mustard

1 Tablespoon Granulated Garlic

3/4 teaspoon Mace

1.5 teaspoons Coriander

3/4 teaspoon Cardamom

3/4 teaspoon Ground celery seed

1 Tablespoon Canning salt

1 teaspoon Pink salt

2 teaspoons White pepper

1 cup Dry milk

3 Tablespoons Corn syrup

1-1/2 teaspoons Liquid smoke

2 cups minimum Crushed ice

[delcecchi]

I did a little looking and found this recipe for your consideration....

http://www.meatsandsausages.com/sausage-recipes/frankfurter

Frankfurter

The frankfurter is a cured, smoked and cooked sausage. It is a ready to eat sausage or it may be boiled, fried or grilled for serving. The frankfurter originated some 350 years ago in Frankfurt, Germany and German immigrants brought the technology to the USA. The terms frankfurter, wiener or hot dog are practically interchangeable today. When the term “beef frankfurter” is used, the sausage is made of pure beef only.

Meats	Metric	US
beef	600 g	1.32 lb.
regular pork trimmings	200 g	0.44 lb.
fat pork trimmings	200 g	0.44 lb.

Ingredients per 1000g (1 kg) of meat

salt	18 g	3 tsp.
Cure #1	2.5 g	½ tsp.
paprika	2.0 g	1 tsp.
white pepper	2.0 g	1 tsp.
coriander	2.0 g	1 tsp.
nutmeg	1.0 g	½ tsp.
cold water	150 ml	⅝ cup

Instructions

1. Grind meats with 3/16” plate (5 mm). Keep lean meats separately from fat trimmings. Refreeze and grind again. Refreeze again and grind through 1/8” (3 mm) plate.
2. Mix lean beef with all ingredients adding ⅓ (50 ml) of cold water. Add lean pork and ⅓ of cold water and mix well. Add fat trimmings and the last ⅓ of water and mix everything well together.
3. Stuff firmly into 24-26 mm sheep casings. Form 4-5” (10-12 cm) long links.
4. Hang on smokesticks for one hour.
5. When sausages feel dry apply hot smoke 60-70º C (140-158º F) for about 60 minutes until brown color develops.
6. Cook in hot water, at 75º C (167º F) until internal meat temperature reaches 154-158º F(68-70º C). This should take about 15 minutes.
7. Shower with cold water for 5 minutes.
8. Keep in a refrigerator.

 

Looks like maybe nutmeg might be a missing ingredient...

 

or a video for those who have a different learning style.

 

 

[Kidd]

Looks good to me. 

I noticed you don't have any crushed black pepper, maybe a little of that?

Also, I just started using crushed chili peppers in my meatball mix and I like the flavor of that.

Good Luck and I enjoy your recipes on your page.  I reference it often.  

Edited January 20, 2016 by Kidd
Spelling

[reinhard1]

Lot's of spices for dogs in a lot of different recipe's.  Some of the main ingredients are nutmeg, coriander, cardamom, and ground cloves.  Some include mace or marjoram.  Paprika is something i see in some recipe's but not many.  That could overshadow the other spices.  I like that you use white pepper instead of black pepper with this.  White pepper makes a huge difference in Swedish sausage as well.  I also have tried my own recipe's for different sausages and some have worked out.  I have those on my page.  But like yourself, I know it takes a lot of time to get it right.  It took me 2 years to get Swedish sausage to my liking.  I use Curley's Old Fashion Wieners packs now and they got it right.  I do add garlic though, just because I like garlic in almost all my sausage LOL.  Also adding powdered milk is the key to all smoked sausage for moisture retention [I see you use that].  Extra bite to me would mean adding some red pepper flakes like Kidd mentioned.  I just made some polish and added 2 T for 25 pounds.  Doesn't overpower the flavor of the polish but does give it that bite I like.  Thirdeye, I'ts nice to see you on here again.  As far as I'm concerned you are the best in the Smoking World!!  God Bless.  good luck.

[lovebigbluegills]

Most of my thoughts have been mentioned, but maybe some high temp pepperjack? 

What's your page? Id love to chheck it out.

[reinhard1]

It's ThirdeyeQ.com   good luck.

[thirdeye]

16 hours ago, delcecchi said:

16 hours ago, delcecchi said:

I did a little looking and found this recipe for your consideration....

Thanks for that.   In addition to the nutmeg, It looks like their salt amount is higher too.

 

14 hours ago, Kidd said:

Looks good to me. 

I noticed you don't have any crushed black pepper, maybe a little of that?

Also, I just started using crushed chili peppers in my meatball mix and I like the flavor of that.

Good Luck and I enjoy your recipes on your page.  I reference it often.  

I used white pepper just so it would blend in easier, and pepper is one of the things we decided to bump.

 

14 hours ago, reinhard1 said:

Lot's of spices for dogs in a lot of different recipe's.  Some of the main ingredients are nutmeg, coriander, cardamom, and ground cloves.  Some include mace or marjoram.  Paprika is something i see in some recipe's but not many.  That could overshadow the other spices.  I like that you use white pepper instead of black pepper with this.  White pepper makes a huge difference in Swedish sausage as well.  I also have tried my own recipe's for different sausages and some have worked out.  I have those on my page.  But like yourself, I know it takes a lot of time to get it right.  It took me 2 years to get Swedish sausage to my liking.  I use Curley's Old Fashion Wieners packs now and they got it right.  I do add garlic though, just because I like garlic in almost all my sausage LOL.  Also adding powdered milk is the key to all smoked sausage for moisture retention [I see you use that].  Extra bite to me would mean adding some red pepper flakes like Kidd mentioned.  I just made some polish and added 2 T for 25 pounds.  Doesn't overpower the flavor of the polish but does give it that bite I like.  Thirdeye, I'ts nice to see you on here again.  As far as I'm concerned you are the best in the Smoking World!!  God Bless.  good luck.

Thanks for the kind words and the comments.  By "zip" I didn't actually mean adding heat (which I'm not against), I just meant the flavor was slightly bland.  I think the paprika also is in there for color but the pink salt does a lot in that regard.  I did not smoke this first batch, only poached. I wanted to evaluate the flavor and the casings without the smokey flavor.  The next batch will get smoked.

9 hours ago, lovebigbluegills said:

Most of my thoughts have been mentioned, but maybe some high temp pepperjack? 

What's your page? Id love to chheck it out.

I have some HT pepperjack, and some lava-jack too that I use in other sausages, not sure if I want to introduce cheese into these.  The page that reinhard1 linked above does have a link to my cookin page but here is the direct link.  From the main page click on "recipes".

http://playingwithfireandsmoke.blogspot.com/

 

 

[reinhard1]

Thirdeye did you do a taste test prior to the poaching?   Also did you let the sausage mix set overnight in the fridge prior to stuffing and poaching?  That overnight rest will meld the flavors and the cure for a better flavor the next day.  Probably did but just wondering.  good luck.

[delcecchi]

And a lower salt content will make them taste a little blander also compared to commercial products. 

[thirdeye]

31 minutes ago, delcecchi said:

And a lower salt content will make them taste a little blander also compared to commercial products. 

 

36 minutes ago, reinhard1 said:

Thirdeye did you do a taste test prior to the poaching?   Also did you let the sausage mix set overnight in the fridge prior to stuffing and poaching?  That overnight rest will meld the flavors and the cure for a better flavor the next day.  Probably did but just wondering.  good luck.

Yes, we fried a small pattie after emulsifying and it had a nice flavor, and I was pleased with the moistness and texture. One friend thought they were just fine, another thought they needed more salt and possibly onion powder. The more of them we eat, the more I want to tickle the seasonings... and especially because I plan on smoking the next batch which will add another level of flavor. 

I only let the meat rest in the fridge for 2 or 3 hours before stuffing, so that might have contributed as well.  Does emulsified meat stiffen up much overnight? The poaching took about 8 or 9 minutes to get the internal up to 155°-160°. 

31 minutes ago, delcecchi said:

And a lower salt content will make them taste a little blander also compared to commercial products. 

Right you are, some brands are really heavy handed with the salt. but even when I cook Nathan's brand dogs I like to do the spiral cut and sprinkle a little celery seed or celery salt on them when cooking. Of course since mine have casings that spiral method is out. 

[reinhard1]

I haven't had a problem with any of my mixes as far as loosing the moisture [sticky texture] needed for easy stuffing.  It has to do with the right amount of water or beer added at the time of mixing.  Frying the test patty will always have more "flavor" than the cooked product.  There is a slight difference that I notice.  For example I will make some spicy Polish today.  The test patty will have more kick to it than the finished smoked product.  Not much but you can tell.  That may be something you may consider.  Try the Curley's Old Fashion Wiener seasoning one time you will like it.  They do make it as small as a 10 pound batch.  I really think they have the best seasonings for sausage around.  I do have some of my recipe's on my page also but other than those I like to use Culey's.  good luck.

[thirdeye]

That's good to know. I thought maybe the dry milk would cause it to stiffen up. I used mostly crushed ice but did have some icy water on hand too, I was conscious of the temp during the batches of emulsification, it never got above 39°.

[reinhard1]

I use powdered milk in all my smoked or cooked sausage.  Using this does require more liquid than without it.  For example I  use 1 cup of powdered milk per 5 pounds of sausage mix.  In a 25 pound batch I made yesterday of spicy Polish I used 6 cups of cold water.  Stuffed just fine today.  Post some pics when you get the smoked done!!  Yes, keeping your mix in the fridge overnight with cure is a must before stuffing and cooking/smoking.  It takes that period of time for the cure to meld in [also for the spices].   good luck.

Edited January 21, 2016 by reinhard1

[thirdeye]

Interesting about the powdered milk, I made a German recipe a few years back that had fresh cream in it and it was very moist.  Along those lines, yesterday a buddy gave me some links of "ham sausage", he basically took his ham ball recipe (the kind that is served with a sweet & sour type of sauce) and stuffed that into links.  I believe his recipe calls for milk.  Anyways, the sausage was tasty, very moist, but the texture was a little too tender... not mealy, just not as tight as most sausage gets.  Do you think in this circumstance powdered milk would have been better than liquid milk?

[reinhard1]

Yes.  Powdered milk is a binder.  It retains moisture and reduces shrinkage. My grandfather from Germany used Wheat flour in his recipes way back when when he had a butcher shop in Germany after the war.  I have his sausage book.  He was not good on amounts  of spices though.  I use beef and pork in my sausage a  lot [something I did get from his book].  The polish I am making today have pork,venison, and beef in it.  i'll post some pics later.  good luck.

[delcecchi]

Another hot dog recipe, cribbed from the book "charcuterie" by Michael Ruhlman

HOT DOGS

Hot dogs derive their distinctive flavor primarily from garlic, paprika, beef fat, and smoke. This recipe uses the meat from beef short ribs because of its high fat content (buy 4 to 5 pounds with the bone for the 21⁄2 pounds needed here); they should be naturally fatty enough to obviate adding more, and the softness of this fat allows it to be uniformly distributed in the mixture. The ground meat is salted for a day to develop the myosin protein that helps give the hot dog a good bind and a good bite. The mixture is then partially frozen, reground, and rechilled before being pureed to ensure a stable emulsion. Imported in the late nineteenth century by German and Austrian immigrants, the hot dog is now embraced as an American dish. While Chicago is famous for serving them with electric-green relish, mustard, onions, a long pickle slice, sliced tomato, hot peppers, and celery salt, a truly great hot dog—all beef with a natural casing—deserves a simple framework: a plain steamed bun, minced onion, and a good mustard.

21⁄2 pounds/1.25 kilograms beef short rib meat, diced and well chilled

1⁄2 ounce/15 grams kosher salt (1 tablespoon)

1 teaspoon/7 grams pink salt

1 cup/250 milliliters ice water

1 tablespoon/9 grams dry mustard

2 teaspoons/6 grams Hungarian paprika

1 teaspoon/3 grams ground coriander

1⁄4 teaspoon/2 grams ground white pepper

1 tablespoon/18 grams minced garlic

2 tablespoons/30 milliliters light corn syrup

5 feet/1.5 meters hog casings or 10 feet/3 meters sheep casings, soaked in tepid water for at least 30 minutes and rinsed

1. Grind the meat through a small die (see Note below).

2. Combine the meat with the salt, pink salt, and water and mix by hand to distribute the salts. Cover and refrigerate for 24 to 48 hours.

3. Add the remaining ingredients and mix in by hand, then spread this mixture onto a sheet tray and place it in the freezer until the meat is so cold that it’s stiff, about 30 minutes or longer, depending on the freezer.

4. Regrind the mixture through a small die.

5. Return mixture to the sheet tray and place it in the freezer until it is again so cold that it’s stiff.

6. Place the mixture in a food processor and puree until it is a uniform paste, about 1 to 2 minutes (if your food processer is not strong enough to do this much meat, simply puree in two batches). It’s important not to let the mixture get warm.

7. Stuff the mixture into casings and twist into 6-inch/15-centimeter links. Hang on smoke sticks and hot-smoke (see page 77) to an internal temperature of 140 degrees F./60 degrees C. Transfer to an ice bath to chill thoroughly.

Yield: About 21⁄2 pounds/1 kilogram hot dogs; about ten 6-inch/15-centimeter links or, if using sheep casings, ten 12-inch/30-centimeter links

[reinhard1]

Del, That is a good recipe however unless it's a typo the amount of Cure in wrong and should not be used with that amount of meat.  You can mess with ingredients but not with cure.  Should have been 1/2 tsp of cure 1 for 2 1/2 pounds of meat.  The safe level of cure is 1 tsp. per 5 pounds of meat.  Otherwise that is a good recipe.  good luck.

[delcecchi]

Hmm, I guess the book wasn't proofread well enough.  Sorry about that.  

The salt and seasonings were what I thought of interest.  I don't know about cure so I couldn't tell. 

[thirdeye]

Thanks guys, I have the book Charcuterie but failed to look for a recipe there.  Ruhlman is known for being heavy handed on both salt and pink salt, but reinhard1 is correct that it should not be abused.  (Tenderquick on the other hand allows for some leeway as it is only 0.5% nitrite and 0.5% nitrate).  So it's possible the amount was NOT in error (in his mind). I noticed his number of links (using 30mm) was way less as I got 45 links when using 24/26mm sheep casings.  I get casings from Syracuse Casing Co., and they have a huge selection of diameters, plus they come pre-sleeved, a big time saver when getting them on the horn.  For me this is a good size to have on hand as coils or rings look pretty neat, and the smoking time is reduced somewhat.  I also keep some larger diameter hog casings on hand too.

This is an all beef frank, and I do like the suggestion of using short ribs.  The amounts of seasonings Ruhlman calls out somewhat confirms what you guys and others have mentioned, especially about my recipe being shy on salt.  I really like garlic and had decided to bump that amount anyway.

For my first stab at franks I was going for something close to a frankfurter wursten which can be all pork, or a mix of pork and beef... but I'm not adverse to trying an all beef one either.

 

[reinhard1]

I don't know what the price of short ribs are in Wyoming but they run around 5 to 6 bucks a pound here.  The fat to lean ratio however is not uniform as in a lot of cuts.  For the flavor and the ability to eyeball a good chuck roast for example [and the flavor of chuck] is something I would use in a all beef frank.  The cost factor is also on the chuck's side.  Don't have to pay for the bone in a boneless chuck instead of short ribs pre-cut or the whole plate from where the short rib is cut from.  I think an all beef or beef/pork combo would be great for franks.  The beef chuck normally has enough fat content so nothing has to be added as far as fat.  The short rib in my opinion would be a little on the fatty side unless you can pick them out from the first four bones of the beef plate.  good luck.

[thirdeye]

I can get the 18-20 lb chuck rolls at my Sam's Club, and they do make wonderful ground beef, and I have some homegrown chuck and sirloin from a buddies family farm in Nebraska in the freezer right now.  Our beef prices are actually pretty good right now, in fact I got these USDA choice short ribs for around $3.50/lb just last week, and I do love them smoked then tendered up in foil.

[reinhard1]

Man those look great !!  My favorite ribs along with the beef back ribs.  That is a great price on the short ribs.  I can't even get the whole plate in the cryo bag for that .  I buy the whole chuck rolls myself.  good luck.

[thirdeye]

I'm doing the re-write on my recipe and incorporating some of the changes we have talked about here.  And like I mentioned I will use my box smoker, but in the winter it might not generate enough heat to get them to 150°-155°, especially if I have a full load in there. So, following say, a 3 hour period in the smoker...what are the pro's and cons of using the oven to get them up to the finish temp, or poaching them to get to the finish temp?  I used an 18 quart Nesco roaster for poaching my first (un-smoked) batch and it worked very nicely.  I would guess I can get the internal up to 130° in the smoker, so the finish time with either oven or poaching would not be that long.

[reinhard1]

I used the Nesco also for poaching.  More and more folks are poaching after a good long cold smoke or just to get it up to proper internal.  The Nesco is really the way to go for poaching.  Simmers and doesn't boil thus not breaking the casing [natural].  The oven is no different than the smoker.  Only difference is that the smoker give you the love of the wood that does so much for sausage, meats, poultry, and fish.  The oven does bring the internal temp that you need to have especially in places like here where it can get very cold and the smoker just doesn't work as well as it does in spring through late fall.  The only con in using the oven is that you don't get the smoke.  You can use liquid smoke in your mix to compensate though.  The pro's to using the oven is that you don't have to deal with the weather and bringing the internal temp is quicker.  It's quicker because cold smoking is time involved and even to get your color with a hot smoke takes more time.  I prefer the smoker of course but when you can't that oven is very handy.  good luck.

[thirdeye]

Thanks for the feedback. I use my oven to finish off my smoked trout... bringing them up to about 120° in 3 hours in the smoker, then into a 180° oven until the internal reaches 150°.