New statewide Pike Regs

[AWH]

Once again aaron.... i am not buying what you are selling.....

What exactly is a "MN DNR representative to the Minnesota Muskie Alliance" anyway?

What exactly am I selling, Merk? Facts? I wouldn't expect you to buy those.

A MN DNR representative is exactly what it sounds like, someone that works for the DNR, as Jim did back in 2003. Thanks for finding that information, Del. Nice write up on Jim, his work, and his passion for our fisheries. Interesting that even back in 2008 it says that the hammer handle problem will haunt him into his retirement. So I guess we shouldn't be surprised that he has worked tirelessly on that since he retired. Glad we have someone that cares as much as that on the side of all of us that want healthy fisheries.

The MMPA (called the MMA in 2003) has a DNR representative at all of their meetings. Looks like Jim was that guy back in 2003. The DNR Representative is there for multiple reasons. The MMPA likes to be transparent in what they do. They don't like the idea of backdooring the DNR. Fisheries are managed by the DNR. Well, mostly, since we often ask our politicians to do that job for some reason. But since that is the DNR's job, it makes sense to have someone within the DNR at those meetings to provide relevant information, to answer questions, etc. If you belong to any type of fishing or hunting organization it would make sense to have a relationship with the DNR since they are responsible for managing the resource in which you utilize.

Aaron

[merkman]

Oh, and by the way, Merkman, your silence as to a proposal that you would find acceptable to improve the size distribution of the state's pike population is deafening.

[gunner55]

I've been on a "hammerhandle" lake for ~ 40 years & the special regs that have been in place for around 10 years seem to me to just be starting to work.That being said,I'm not so nearsighted to think those same restrictions work everywhere.

[delcecchi]

Quote:

I want regulations that protect northern pike but do not throw out the legal methods of fishing in Minnesota along the way.

"don't throw out legal methods of fishing" is Merkman for "get rid of slots" apparently.

So could you be more specific about these " regulations that protect northern pike " that you would find acceptable, and why you believe they will work?

You are the number one naysayer on this site about any DNR proposal to protect good size northerns. And you continue to trot out the Muskie bugaboo, although muskie fishing is more popular and better than ever in Minnesota.

[Neighbor_guy]

Its this kind of infighting that the activists thrive on...

They get us to turn on each other and stand back and let us destroy ourselves.

News Flash!!!

-People don't want to eat stunted pike, they don't like the bones. Thus when a population becomes stunted it is a self fulfilling prophecy.

-Little Johny cant catch a 30" pike every time he goes fishing, no matter what regulations are or are not in place. (better make a law)

-SPEARING DOES NOT HURT LAKES!!! Statisticly there are not that many of spear fisherman out there and they harvest a very small amount of the total fish taken from any population. "Old School" spear everything that comes by spear fisherman are dead. "New School" spear fisherman watch more than they spear. It's a different game. If you disagree spend a day on the lake with one.

-IMPROPER CATCH AND RELEASE KILLS FISH!!! In order for the slots to make a difference you will need to also regulate barbless hooks on lures, and barbless circle hooks for bait rigs. This will improve the rate of live release. This goes for summer or winter fishing.

I've said my peace and will let you guys to continue to shoot at each other. At some point you need to learn to let it go. As I said in my opening statement, this is what the actavist jack wagons thrive on. They love it when we fight with each other.

For the record, I am a BIG pike enthusiast. I spend every fishing trip summer or winter hunting big pike. Open water with slightly scaled down muskie baits, or on muskie water with the big stuff. I consider Muskies to be bycatch of my obsession. Ice means a dark house and tip ups, 90% of the time, my spear sits leaning against the outside of the shack. Most times I am there to watch. In the event I do take a fish, or my daughter is along, the target is a 25-26" fish. We take 2-3 fish per year, that's it. EVERY 30"+ fish I see never even knows I am there, and is still swimming. And every fish caught on hook and line goes back too, no mater what the season.

[B420]

"Old School" spear everything that comes by spear fisherman are dead. "New School" spear fisherman watch more than they spear. It's a different game. If you disagree spend a day on the lake with one.

That Mille Lacs creel where they surveyed SPEARERS indicated that at least out there, 5 out of every 8 pike that swam through the hole had the spear thrown at them. And not all because the spearer wanted to pass. Some of those were because the fish didn't come completely into the hole so they didn't have a good shot, and others swam through too quickly. Still, 5 out of every 8 had the spear thrown at them for that survey of spear fishermen! Hardly a case of "watch more than they spear"!

[Neighbor_guy]

That Mille Lacs creel where they surveyed SPEARERS indicated that at least out there, 5 out of every 8 pike that swam through the hole had the spear thrown at them. And not all because the spearer wanted to pass. Some of those were because the fish didn't come completely into the hole so they didn't have a good shot, and others swam through too quickly. Still, 5 out of every 8 had the spear thrown at them for that survey of spear fishermen! Hardly a case of "watch more than they spear"!

You mean the survey where they went to a lake that they asked every one who could take 10 fish to take 10 fish????? And to spear everything they could under 30" in length???

That is a prime example of manipulating data to suit ones argument. For this case you need to take that data and toss it as an anomaly.

Never took any statistics coarse's or work with data sets and numbers did you???

[B420]

Yes it was the same lake where 40% of the creel surveyed pike speared were over 30". Removing these large fish whether angling or spearing is not good for our lakes. That is why these bigger fish need protection.

Just take a peek at spearing photo gallery especially the last couple of pages, the majority of the fish speared are over 30". And since you asked, yes I took quite a few courses in statistics they weren't my favorite though.

[creepworm]

Just take a peek at spearing photo gallery especially the last couple of pages, the majority of the fish speared are over 30".

Also look at the results for the HSO spearing get togethers. They have a contest for biggest pike speared, (most of the time it ends up being in the mid-low 30 inch range) and those same spearers then mosey on down here and say they are against spearing large pike and would never spear a pike in the 30's.

These people also participate in Spear Fest. Which is a much bigger version with many larger pike taken.

It would be comical if it weren't so sad.

[shamalex72]

Statisticly there are not that many of spear fisherman out there and they harvest a very small amount of the total fish taken from any population. "Old School" spear everything that comes by spear fisherman are dead. "New School" spear fisherman watch more than they spear. It's a different game. If you disagree spend a day on the lake with one.

For the record, I am a BIG pike enthusiast. I spend every fishing trip summer or winter hunting big pike. Open water with slightly scaled down muskie baits, or on muskie water with the big stuff. I consider Muskies to be bycatch of my obsession. Ice means a dark house and tip ups, 90% of the time, my spear sits leaning against the outside of the shack. Most times I am there to watch. In the event I do take a fish, or my daughter is along, the target is a 25-26" fish. We take 2-3 fish per year, that's it. EVERY 30"+ fish I see never even knows I am there, and is still swimming. And every fish caught on hook and line goes back too, no mater what the season.

As much as I would like this to be true, I just have a hard time believing it. Just on f/b alone, I would guess over 75% of the pictures posted are between 30-40". Its not just the old school crowd, its the younger guys and gals too.

You and I are a lot alike, however, in what we spear. I take a few more than you do per year, but target the same size as you. I just think that we are a very small percent of the over all group.

[delcecchi]

-SPEARING DOES NOT HURT LAKES!!! Statisticly there are not that many of spear fisherman out there and they harvest a very small amount of the total fish taken from any population. "Old School" spear everything that comes by spear fisherman are dead. "New School" spear fisherman watch more than they spear. It's a different game. If you disagree spend a day on the lake with one.

Do you have any data to back up your claim that the spear fishermen in general don't spear everything they can, like back in the day? Or is that just a hypothesis on your part?

The problem with some spearers is they want to do away with regulations that affect everyone just so they can feel safe while spearing. Or perhaps he, or you, or spearers in general, want special "spear anything" spearing regs while the anglers have slots. What is it? Why will no spearer come out and say what regulations would make them happy while protecting and rehabilitating the pike resource? Come on, you can sit in the darkhouse and watch no matter what the regs.

[delcecchi]

Quote:

I want regulations that protect northern pike but do not throw out the legal methods of fishing in Minnesota along the way.

I do not want the Northern Pike fishery in Minnesota to go the way of the muskie fishery in Minnesota (a summer time only catch and release only fishery where even catch and release of fish is illegal in the winter time)

Blathering generalities. You want to get rid of slots, which would affect everyone just because you say it makes you afraid to spear a fish that might be in the slot. But you don't say what you DO want.

Come on, man up. Tell us what the Merkman Northern Pike regulation would be. How do we "protect northern pike" without a lot more harvest restrictions for larger fish? Or are you just blowing smoke?

[merkman]

You want to get rid of slots

Yet another baseless claim

.

[Neighbor_guy]

My personal opinion is not a popular one. Not amongst anyone on either side of the dark house door....

1. Reopen ALL lakes in MN to spearing.

2. Statewide 30"+ protected slot. "Trophy" fish stay in the system, and those who spear will still get to participate in their sport.

3. Barbless hooks on all lures

4. Circle hooks on all bait rigs.

[delcecchi]

Yet another baseless claim

You have been talking about slots as effectively banning spearing for years in several of the boards. Sheesh.

So slots are ok with you? Then what is your problem with the current regulations? And why did the MDAA get the legislature to restrict the use of slots?

[Note from admin. Edited. Please read forum policy before posting again. Thank you.]

[Early Riser]

Big pike are highly susceptible to spearing. This is because there are many days they will come in to investigate a fake or live decoy, and will not bite a live minnow. I see this many times each season. They are so easy to kill some days that even a few meat hogs, sitting day after day, over a season or two, on a small to medium size lake, can do some serious damage to the size structure.

I agree with Sham that a number of us spearers would like to believe that "watch and release" is being practiced regularly by the majority of participants, but are not sure, or skeptical that we are there yet.

As mentioned several times already, a yearly tag system for anglers and spearers would be a way to protect numbers of larger pike. I also wouldn't mind if all other species could be taken by spear, as well as by hook and line, within applicable games laws. Another option already discussed here would be to limit everyone to one fish over 26" per day.

One thing that is for certain is that the "one size fits all" proposal, with blanket slots on all lakes within an entire region would not sit well with many people, thus has a limited chance of being implemented.

[creepworm]

My personal opinion is not a popular one. Not amongst anyone on either side of the dark house door....

1. Reopen ALL lakes in MN to spearing.

2. Statewide 30"+ protected slot. "Trophy" fish stay in the system, and those who spear will still get to participate in their sport.

3. Barbless hooks on all lures

4. Circle hooks on all bait rigs.

1. I agree completely. It is ignorant to try to keep one group of sportsmen off of a lake while allowing another to enjoy the resource. Also, all closing a lake does is greatly increasing the pressure when the spearing ban is lifted. (Cass, Mille Lacs)

2. I am not necessarily a fan of this because I would like for people to be able to harvest a true trophy fish, 38+. I would like to see a 28-38 inch protected slot. Possibly added to that increasing the bag limit of sub 22 inch fish.

3. This would not bother me one bit. In fact, I do not understand why I have not pinched the barb on the lures/hooks I have now. Laziness, I guess.

4. This would not bother me at all. I currently use all circle hooks anyway. Hook up percentage is just as good, if not better and they generally are hooked in a good place for getting the hook out quick and a safe release.

[delcecchi]

Legislature has restricted lake by lake special regs to 100 lakes. DNR has no choice but to go to area "one size fits all" regs if they are going to do anything.

[Early Riser]

I don't understand why it has to be the "one size fits all" approach or nothing. What about a tag system, or lowering the upper size limit per day? They can still keep the 100 lakes with slots.

[delcecchi]

I don't understand why it has to be the "one size fits all" approach or nothing. What about a tag system, or lowering the upper size limit per day? They can still keep the 100 lakes with slots.

Still has to be one size fits all, thanks to MDAA and the legislature. No special per lake regulations unless on one of the hundred allowed.

[creepworm]

Still has to be one size fits all, thanks to MDAA and the legislature. No special per lake regulations unless on one of the hundred allowed.

Yup, great job MDAA. Way to care about the only fish specie you target.

I am convinced the only care the MDAA has when it pertains to Pike, is harvesting as many Pike as possible.

[PurpleFloyd]

I don't understand why it has to be the "one size fits all" approach or nothing. What about a tag system, or lowering the upper size limit per day? They can still keep the 100 lakes with slots.

A tag system is the only answer

[PurpleFloyd]

My personal opinion is not a popular one. Not amongst anyone on either side of the dark house door....

1. Reopen ALL lakes in MN to spearing.

2. Statewide 30"+ protected slot. "Trophy" fish stay in the system, and those who spear will still get to participate in their sport.

3. Barbless hooks on all lures

4. Circle hooks on all bait rigs.

I would take it farther and open it to more species like Bass,Musky and Walleye with a tag system to still allow spearing but to take some of the pressure off of Northern.Mine might be a tad more controversial

[pushbutton]

Nice to see some semblance of reason forming here. Think 1, 3, 4 are an easy go. Also think a tag could/should fly for the trophies....no matter the method. But as mentioned earlier, make it relatively expensive. The sticky part ends up in #2. Hard to bring the harvest orientated vs non together, while also trying to improve the size structure, which hopefully everyone agrees is ultimately beneficial to all. It is those 24 to 28 that people want, but also need the most protection to get beyond that point to help to prevent the stunted slimers eating themselves and the lake out of house and home. What I really like about the model for the north central is that it at least gives ...lets say.... a lake association or local sporting club....a tool/ opportunity to at least try to get "their" lake back in balance; the limit of three has really never allowed for it. Yes, some lakes for whatever reason simply won't ever support a balanced population, but if this is the case, even after a targeted effort....just take it off the list in ten years or so, call it good, and have at it. Also, would fully support opening up spearing to other species. If the likes of you three would be the spokespeople for the sport, think it would be entirely possible.

[merkman]

Big pike are highly susceptible to spearing. This is because there are many days they will come in to investigate a fake or live decoy, and will not bite a live minnow. I see this many times each season.

At least the data does not support your opinion Early Riser.

Anglers out number darkhouse spearers 100 to 1; darkhouse spearers have a much shorter season; are MUCH less mobile than anglers and can only spear during the daylight hours.

if you compare the total seasons against the two you will see that more northern pike (more smaller, medium AND large pike) are taken by angling than by darkhouse spear

The problem is far from being a darkhouse spearing only problem.

It is the person not the method that takes the fish.... believe it or not there are many other fishermen (darkhouse spearers and anglers) out there that can and do practice the same restraint you do.... no mater if the fish is in their hands when caught with hook and line or under their feet while darkhouse spearing.

.