Ice castle galvanized frame and arctic insulation package

[aczr2k]

I am pretty sure they also have a furnace. Yes the floor is insulated from the frame. It must work they have been building them for a 4-5 years, and I did see one being built this winter when I was there.

[Hazzard]

Valley frames are copies of Berkon and made cheaper from what I understand. Are you positive you can not get a Berkon frame galvanized?

Why not just skip IC and get your whole house done by Berkon? And add their floor heat option too.

I talked to Valley yesterday and they claim the frame is exactly the same a Berkon. I also talked to Berkon and they do not galvanize frames.

[swmndeerhunter]

When you say "Valley", do you have the full name of the company? I've been trying to find info on these frames and coming up empty. Might have to call them.

[Blackhawkxp]

I sent you a PM deer hunter on Valley Manufacturing

[aczr2k]

Yeah Valleys is cheaper built, look closely, Berkon designed the frame, Valley copied it.

[Hazzard]

Yeah Valleys is cheaper built, look closely, Berkon designed the frame, Valley copied it.

What area of the frame should I look closely at?

[Hawg]

The frame is the number 1 most important decision in building your house. Take someone with you that knows welding and steel dimensions. When you hear of people talking on here of frame flex and tilted wheels it's because of poor frames, axels and hubs. Some of the major fish house companies were almost ruined by cutting corners on the frame, don't get screwed.

[Lip_Ripper Guy]

I have no dog in this fight, and I have not seen the bare Berkon or Valley frames in person.

Looking at pictures I see that they are very similar. It looks like they are both using 2"x5" or 2"x6" outer frames, with 1"x2" cross bracing every 2', and 3"x 5" or 6" tongues. They both have similar reinforcements around the axles. Both use torsion axles. The only thing I don't know is the thickness of the metal on the Valley, but it is very likely 1/8" like the Berkon. I can see where there is definitely design similarity (call it a copy if you'd like), but there is nothing obvious that would make it a "cheap" copy, IMO.

[Berkon Outdoors]

Quote:

This option doesnt seem wise to me at all. I am going to rely on WATER for heat in a fish house. So everytime I go back and forth to the lake I need to put water in my system and when I leave I need to take it out?? Otherwise how do you prevent it from freezing?? Antifreeze? This is just over the top and one more thing that can go wrong.

Like I said, mine is sprayed floor to ceiling. My heater blows out across the floor with two 4" vents and dries everything off, and then I wear a pair of slippers. Usually my feet are so warm in there that I walk around barefoot.

Dont spend $2,000 for something that has the potential to give you a big headache.

Just came across your post. I know this post is a little old but thought I would let you know what we actually do. The system is filled with Anti-Freeze, not water. The boiler can run on either gas or electric.

Most of our customers bring the house home and plug it in and run it on electric, and then gas when they are on the lake. When the system is running your floor is always 75 degrees so anytime someone comes in and gets snow on the floor it melts and dries within a few minutes.

We also have another furnace in the house. As another person posted in-floor heat will not heat your house quickly, that is one of the reasons to plug it in when you are at home. The backup furnace will get your house warmed up much faster and keep it warm until the in-floor catches up.

As for being something that is over the top and another thing that can go wrong that is exactly what everyone said when we first started bringing hydraulic trailers and houses to the shows. Most people said I don't need that, cranking isn't that hard, hydraulics won't work in the cold. Now we here the same types of comments; I don't need that, the pipes are going to freeze, it's going to melt the snow and ice out from under us (zero snow will melt under you).

We only custom build houses, and only a few a year. Once we started putting in-floor heat in (4 years ago) every customer except 1 has had us put the system in.

The difference between a floor with no insulation and a house with an insulated floor is as large as the difference between an insulated floor and one with in-floor heat. Once people have been in one they can not believe the difference. Is it a necessity, no, is it nicer, without a doubt.

[Berkon Outdoors]

Quote:

I talked to Valley yesterday and they claim the frame is exactly the same a Berkon. I also talked to Berkon and they do not galvanize frames.

Even though they are good copies they are not exactly the same. Also we do now also offer galvanized frames.

[BLACKJACK]

I'm picking this thread up a little late but thought I'd comment since I do have an ice castle that is about 5 years old.

First thing I did was have the floor spray foamed, well worth the money.

If it had the option I would have the whole thing spray foamed, ceiling too. Being too tight would not be a concern because when its time to sleep I ALWAYS crack a window open, I don't want to be the star of one of those 'died in their sleep in a fishhouse' story.

My 6.5 x 14 IC keeps me plenty warm, furnace works fine. The only thing the in-floor heat would be nice is because it would eliminate the blower noise but not sure I would pop extra thousands for the in-floor heat, its a fishhouse for God's sake!!

Same with a little rust on the frame, its a fishhouse!!! Early on I 'sandblasted' the front of my IC frame by going down a wet gravel road in the spring but that doesn't bother me, its a fishhouse!!! By the time it rusts thru I'll be dead.

Lots of negative comments about Ice castles but I've been very happy with mine!!

[eagle_3464]

Even though they are good copies they are not exactly the same. Also we do now also offer galvanized frames.

[slurpie]

A thought on the in floor heat. Would it not be easier to just put the electric heat grids under the carpet? It's great if you can do tubes and antifreeze. But I think the grids would be cheaper.

[JSK76]

So how can you tell if yoy have a Valley or Berkon frame?

[Berkon Outdoors]

A thought on the in floor heat. Would it not be easier to just put the electric heat grids under the carpet? It's great if you can do tubes and antifreeze. But I think the grids would be cheaper.

Electric heat takes quite a large energy draw. I haven't looked at a lot of electric systems but using the Thermosoft system from Home Depot for example it would take 12W per square foot. So an 8x20 house would be 160 square feet x 12W per foot = 1,920W. That's a lot of power. Also they sell it for $96.75 for 7.5 square feet so 160/7.5 = 21 pieces which would be $2,064.

[Berkon Outdoors]

So how can you tell if yoy have a Valley or Berkon frame?

The easiest way of knowing is that we put stickers on all of our trailers with our name on them, one on each side and one on the back. We also have stickers on the wireless remotes that say Berkon on them. We are proud of our product and put our name on it so people know they are getting our product and if they have any questions or problems they easily know to contact us.

Without those the next easiest way to tell would be to look at the drop hitch. All of our flat bars are laser cut with rounded edges, they either shear or saw theirs so they have square ends, it is the same case with the parts in the wheel well.

There are many other differences but if you are just trying to tell which one someone has these will quickly let you know.

[CopterDR]

So just want to know is it worth the $1300 price tag to get the frame galvanized? Thinking about getting a 8'X16' LOW Ice castle in the next year and wondering if the galvanized frame is worth it.

[Berkon Outdoors]

I believe within the next few years, galvanized frames will be the norm. I did my 6.5 x 14 for just over $200 so the cost increase shouldn't be as drastic as the $1000 I have seen. Herculiner and similar products appear to be doing a good job but they will not protect from the inside out.

As a manufacturer I would say the odds of galvanized being the norm for fish house trailers is pretty slim. The amount of extra time required is quite high. Every single piece of steel has to have large holes drilled in it for the liquid to go in and out of. On top of that the facilities that do galvanizing are few and far between, an hour and twenty minutes for us. The trailers have to be transported to them by being stacked on a trailer because the axles can not be mounted to them ahead of time. Also none of the parts that pivot can be installed. If they were mounted on the trailer before being dipped they would be completely seized up after being galvanized. Then we have to bring the trailer back, unload them, and go back to work on them again. We mount the axles and assemble the pivoting parts. It adds many hours of extra time to each trailer.

[eagle_3464]

I've completed a galvanized frame start to finish and it is not "lots of additional hours". Less than 40 holes added to my tubing before it is welded takes less than 1.5 hours in a good drill press. Welding time is going to be the same either way. There was about 30 to 45 minutes cleanup on the pivot areas after galvanizing. As a manufacturer you could easily haul 10 frames to galvanizing to make the cost of transportation minimal per frame. Once you have fixtures for welding, nothing needs to be assembled until after the frame is galvanized.

[Berkon Outdoors]

We have been told where to drill the holes and we have between 100 holes on the smaller trailers and almost 200 on some of the larger ones. Our front ends must be assembled to line parts up, then weld the upright to the trailer, and then disassembled for galvanizing, and reassembled again once it comes back. You have the cleanup on the pivoting areas as you mentioned. And also the parts for the axles must then be welded. This entails welding parts that have already been galvanized to non galvanized parts so you have to grind them down and then paint them with zinc heavy paint. We end up with roughly an extra 3 hours added to a trailer which is quite high when making a non galvanized trailer takes 8-12 hours depending on the model.

[eagle_3464]

A while back I predicted that galvanized frames could become the norm within a few years. Now 1-1/2 yrs later I notice there is alot of chatter going on about the galvanized frame. I think it is great that so many now see this as the best solution to a tough application. Hey, even Berkon is doing it so it must be good.

[RebelSS]

Most automotive frames have been galvanized since the 80's, and heavy equipment before that. Why Ice house frames never were, is beyond me. They were behind the times, IMO.