Decoy vs Live bait

[jvm1]

What's everybody's preference? One of each, 2 decoys? Live bait only?

I've only been out a few times spearing and have been running 1 of each. The majority of the pike seem to be attracted to sucker more than the decoy. Only one time have I seen them come to the decoy only repeatedly.

[MJ1657]

I always use one of each.occasionally I take my artificial decoy out and put down a spoon or spinner

[bowhunt]

That is similar to my experience. I always run both, and over 90% of the time they will come into the sucker. Quite often however they will come into the sucker fast, and then turn and stop and stare at the fake decoy sitting there. This gives you a better chance at a clean shot. There will always be the rare day when all they will come in to is the fake decoy as well.

[mwal]

This year for me I have had more fish come to my decoy or spoon than a sucker. In fact the sucker was so ineffective early that I quit using one. I just started putting one down last weekend and the pike swam with in 1 inch of it to hit the red and white decoy. Otherwise lately for me the hillbilly spinner and spoon has been what they have been most interested in. Last year I went broke putting suckers down as they where annihilating them and ignoring my decoys and spoon. All a guy can do is try a sucker by it self if nothing add the decoy remove the sucker etc. Let the fish tell you. Some days it looks like a x-mas tree under my shack decoy sucker spoon all at same time.

Mwal

Mwal

[jasonmichalski]

I haven't run a live in a year or two, I run two fakes must of the time, sometimes I run one fake. I see just as many fish if not more.

[mrklean]

most of the year I have ran both live and a fake more action has been on the sucker but the larger fish have all been on the fake

[mwal]

I also forgot to mention that all of my nicest fish have been on a decoy or spoon the little picklers are the ones that ravage the sucker. Bigger fish must be more curious. I have never gotten a truly big musky size sucker for a decoy. I know in the fall in WI I have caught 10lb pike on 15 in and larger suckers. Perhaps the avg decoy sucker is to small? and they are more interested in the larger profile fake decoy.

Mwal

[jigginjim]

My uncle has used a large rattle trap, with the decoys, seems to draw fishes attention faster. I used them in Square lake, while fishing trout, the fish came in on a rocket. Some would hit the lure others would short. Later we started adding a small grub behind the rattle bait.

[Gordie]

I have been staying away from the live bait and have done very well. And the last time I was out I speared 3 pike with out live bait while my kid in the house next to me only speared one with a live decoy down.

Although I have sat without seeing anything and wonder if a live decoy would of helped. It is a chance you take when you try and play the guessing game. One the other hand I know guys that use only a live decoy sucker and do well to but they also have those blank days too.

Guessing game at its finest!

[shamalex72]

Most of the time its two decoys, sometimes a decoy and spinner, once in a while just one decoy. Almost never use live sucker.

[Early Riser]

I always start out the day with one artificial decoy in the hole that I hardly swim at all. If the fish are moving that is all it ever takes. When they are sluggish, I will mix it up with two wood decoys, and experiment with different colors, depths and movements. I think that most of the time whatever keeps you out there longer is what really makes the difference. Although, I have pike (as well as bass and walleye) come in right after I change out colors often enough to know it is not a coincidence.

I also like to have a line going for panfish. A live minnow just gets in the way. I haven't used a live decoy in over two years now and it hasn't hurt my seasonal fish per hour average in the least.

[Betterlabs]

I used to use a live sucker and one wood decoy. I have had large Notherns leave quick when the sucker would freek out. I use a realistic 12" Cisco and a red and white decoy and have done well this year! The big ones come in to the decoys nice and slow!

[hillbilly...]

now outa the 20 times that ive been out 19 of them have been with nothing but decoys. and 2 of them we had 2 decoys down. and the last time I went out we used a smaller sucker and the fish were slaming the decoy and only had 2 smaller ones check out the sucker. so im gona try the sucker couple more times im gona try a 12" sucker the next time last one was maybe 8-10.

and better labs were did you get your spear. Im likeing the looks of it.

[Neighbor_guy]

As a carver I prefer to just use wooden decoys. And the majority of the larger fish that come in seem to do so on the decoy.

That being said I will often use a live sucker as my other "lure". Especially if I'm going to fish multiple days in a row. I spend a lot of time watching scales fall to the bottom like snow after my sucker gets homered and shaken like a rag doll. The smaller ones seem lo prefer the live.

[jvm1]

So it sounds like it doesn't matter, when you use a spoon do you jig it constantly or just let it sit there?

I thought about using rattle baits too, especially the bigger sizes.

[mwal]

I have a mini teaser by tackle tamer. It has a small motor run by a d cell battery that slowly rotates the spoon or sometimes I have been known to use painted golf balls. If you jig spoon the pike will hit them. the rotation seems to just confuse them, they just get 6 inches from it and sit there giving you ample time to evaluate the fish as to whether you want take it or play with it or merely enjoy watching its behavior. If its time to play I will then move the decoy very slowly and see if it will chase that or perhaps jiggle the spoon/golf ball. Quite entertaining. Panfish bass and dogfish are also mesmerized by the spinning spoon. I leave the bottom split ring on after removing the hook it must make some noise as they will move in and nip at or push the split ring. Wish I had under water camera to capture the action. On muskie lakes I have had great fun teasing muskies with my dueys decoy with the trailing spinner blade. I even got a big girl to surface and splash me in December. When I dropped decoy back down it came back and slammed the decoy and would not let go I had to gently nudge it with the side of my spear to get it to release. I have been spearing since I was about 14 or about 37 years and have never had that happen to a artificial decoy. This sport is so much more interesting than watching tip ups. Even if you do not spear anything its an enjoyable experience.

Mwal

[mwal]

Hillbilly,

Betterlabs spear appears to be a Dillo or a Dillo designed spear. I have a Dillo just like that. I have been very happy with it. Its forward weighted so it travels to wherever you launch without planning. The barbs also hold very well. My only minor complaint is that even though it is stainless the way they heat and work it changes the rust free properties of stainless and you must oil it or clear coat it or you can get small speck of rust.

Mwal

[MJ1657]

So it sounds like it doesn't matter

You've got it figured out. What works for one guy doesn't for the next, what works on one lake won't work on another and what works one day will fail the next.

That's the fun and or maddening part of spear fishing.

[BOUNCED]

I have been staying away from the live bait and have done very well.

I've been telling you that for years

[hillbilly...]

Hillbilly,

Betterlabs spear appears to be a Dillo or a Dillo designed spear. I have a Dillo just like that. I have been very happy with it. Its forward weighted so it travels to wherever you launch without planning. The barbs also hold very well. My only minor complaint is that even though it is stainless the way they heat and work it changes the rust free properties of stainless and you must oil it or clear coat it or you can get small speck of rust.

Mwal

nine tines got one that's similar.

[Betterlabs]

My new spear is a Kraemer 7 tine that has been blued like a shotgun barrel! It has awesome barbs and throws very accurate! I had a 9 tine Fabeck made with Kraemer's jig that I sold to my son in law! The center weight design was originated many years ago in the Melrose, MN area! I think it is the most accurate spear you can own! I like the copper handle or any handle. The handle helps with the throw!

[Early Riser]

Edit: I see Brian just jumped it! Brian's spear is based on the original "turned weighted center design" engineered in the 1950s by Dillo Hinnekamp and Joe June, both of Melrose MN.

Before Dillo and June, W. Pimple from Melrose was making very good spears with a weighted center, wedge key design, hay rake tines, with distinctive barb work. Original Dillo and Pimple spears are highly prized family heirlooms, frequently sought after for collections, and many are still being used today.

Contemporaries Lee Moening, Jeremy Kraemer and Micheal Fabeck use the same design.

These are not stainless steel spears. Kraemer and Fabeck, among several other special order variations, made a blued model with a wood handle, along with a plain steel and a hollow copper handle model (like Brian's). The idea is that the slightly buoyant handle, as explained to me by Jeremy, acts to keep the shaft of the spear from falling and pulling deep angled shots off line, like fletching on an arrow.

Lee Moening's spear is called "The Dillo" which is engraved on each of his spears. He lives on Pleasant Lake near St. Could, and, I believe is still making spears. They are very good. His handles are solid steel stock all the way to the end, and as far as I can tell from my testing, they seem to fly very true down to at least 18’ which is the deepest I think I have speared a fish.

They will all rust, which in collector parlance is referred to as “patina.” I am not too meticulous about my spears in this regard. I just let them air dry off after using them, then go over everything with an oiled cloth, or gun wipe. They really take on a nice character after a while.

A couple of things I have picked up from talking to custom spear makers are: 1) don’t hang it on wall – use it’ 2) don’t ever paint a spear; 3) keep it off the bottom; 4) never use a file, use an emery cloth if you ever have to touch up the tips.

The relatively mass produced “Amish” spears are of the same design. I have no personal experience with these spears, but several buddies have them and really like them. They do make a stainless model as well.

[Betterlabs]

now outa the 20 times that ive been out 19 of them have been with nothing but decoys. and 2 of them we had 2 decoys down. and the last time I went out we used a smaller sucker and the fish were slaming the decoy and only had 2 smaller ones check out the sucker. so im gona try the sucker couple more times im gona try a 12" sucker the next time last one was maybe 8-10.

and better labs were did you get your spear. Im likeing the looks of it.

Here is a pic of my new blued Kraemer spear with a 13 lber I speared this year!

[jvm1]

Does anybody have the contact info for Kraemer spears? I contacted Fabeck but he isn't making any right now.

[jvm1]

Found the contact info, if anybody is interested let me know.