Copper ammo exchange

[pikerliker]

Not sure if this has ever happened, but I thought with all the talk about the toxicity of led shot (especially with rifles) to eagles, etc it would be nice if somebody would do an ammo exchange. Kind of like they do sometimes with fishing tackle/jigs. Bring in your lead ammo and get some copper replacements. Anybody ever hear of this happening?

[TylerS]

Heck, I think that copper stuff is hokey as it comes, but if someone did an equal exchange, I'd be all over it! You could turn right around and sell it for a major profit! Then I'd be able to afford the primo lead ammo.

[nofishfisherman]

I imagine it would be challenging to figure out the logistics of an exchange of ammo considering all of the different calibers out there not to mention the different bullet weights that people prefer. I'm sure you'd want to get an equivalent bullet back for each you trade in.

Perhaps an exchange could offer a few of the most common calibers but I'm not sure it would be worth the effort.

[TruthWalleyes]

If your so worried about lead...Give it to me. I could use some more catfishing weights...Well, not really, but it gives me comfort knowing i've got a life time supply already

[NoWiser]

Heck, I think that copper stuff is hokey as it comes, but if someone did an equal exchange, I'd be all over it! You could turn right around and sell it for a major profit! Then I'd be able to afford the primo lead ammo.

Have you personally shot anything with an all copper bullet like a Barnes TSX or TTSX? I think if you did you would be pleasantly surprised that it is far from "hokey." Not that I have anything against lead. If someone likes it, by all means keep using it. Personally, I see no reason for me to shoot lead bullets when I get much better performance out of an all copper bullet in addition to not having to worry about any possible health risks to my family when they are eating a venison roast, or an animal that comes along to eat my gut pile.

I'm not sure who would fund an exchange program like the one mentioned. If it was ammo manufacturers, I'd say go for it. If it would be the government, I'd be against it.

[TylerS]

I honestly don't see the need. The box of .30-06 Federal's I bought when I was 16 lasted 10 years. I bought three more boxes last year. At the rate I go through cartridges, I won't need more ammo until I'm nearly 60 (unless I start missing more often in my old age).

A very good friend of mine got the privilege of culling elk in Theodore Roosevelt Park a couple years ago. His group, along with all culling groups, were issued ammunition with Barnes TSX copper bullets because of the no lead mandate (most of the meat was to be donated to food shelters). His consensus after shooting a half dozen cows was that they were utter garbage. One elk took four rounds to the vitals before it went down and they still had to finish it off after walking up to her. The groups went through bullets so fast, USFWS had to order more ammo earlier than expected. I consider him one of the best big-game hunters I've ever met. If he doesn't believe in all-copper bullets, there's no way I'd ever use them.

Then again, folks like yourself seem to love them. Who am I to judge? And maybe comparing deer to elk isn't fair. Use whatever makes you happy and what you're confident in.

[BobT]

I honestly don't see the need. The box of .30-06 Federal's I bought when I was 16 lasted 10 years. I bought three more boxes last year. At the rate I go through cartridges, I won't need more ammo until I'm nearly 60 (unless I start missing more often in my old age).

A very good friend of mine got the privilege of culling elk in Theodore Roosevelt Park a couple years ago. His group, along with all culling groups, were issued ammunition with Barnes TSX copper bullets because of the no lead mandate (most of the meat was to be donated to food shelters). His consensus after shooting a half dozen cows was that they were utter garbage. One elk took four rounds to the vitals before it went down and they still had to finish it off after walking up to her. The groups went through bullets so fast, USFWS had to order more ammo earlier than expected. I consider him one of the best big-game hunters I've ever met. If he doesn't believe in all-copper bullets, there's no way I'd ever use them.

Then again, folks like yourself seem to love them. Who am I to judge? And maybe comparing deer to elk isn't fair. Use whatever makes you happy and what you're confident in.

From what I've read, there is something that should be considered when switching to all copper. I'll explain it this way.

When I bought my 30-06 I also bought 180gr. cartridges because that is what my dad always used. Prior to owning my 30-06 I hunted deer with a 30-30. Never and I mean never had I ever had to go find a deer that I shot with that 30-30. They always fell right where they stood. The first two deer I took with my 30-06 I found that I had to go find because they would run for about 30 or 40 yards before dropping. My shot placement was good and that's why they fell but I couldn't understand why they would run. I was talking it over with an ex-military friend who is also big into loading his own rifle ammo and he told me the problem was the bullet I was using. He recommended dropping to 150gr. soft point because with the 180gr. the lead gets too long and the length to diameter ratio is too large. The result is that the deer hide is too soft to mushroom the bullet quick enough so the bullet will pass right through before expending its energy. I dropped to 150gr. core-lokt soft points and the problem went away.

The articles I have read about copper have indicated the same thing. Because copper is less dense than lead, a copper bullet of the same weight will be longer than the lead bullet. That length to diameter ratio is larger again. The recommendation? If you're typically using 150gr lead you should drop to 125gr. when switching to copper or you could have a similar problem with the bullet passing through without full expansion and expending its energy.

This past winter I was curious about why 125gr. 30-06 core-lokt soft points were not a recommended deer load when 100gr. in a .243 caliber was recommended. I talked to another friend who is also into shooting sports and he said the same thing. The 125gr. 30-06 is too short and so expands fully to quick and its energy is spent before it can reach vital organs. The .243 is smaller in diameter and so the 100gr. is able to penetrate far enough before it expends its energy.

Seems to make sense and I know from my own experience that it seems to work.