Manziel Debate

[CaptainMusky]

Why did JM pass the ball so much? Because he had all american wide receivers and no RB? I believe so.

[PurpleFloyd]

Meanwhile in Cleveland...

The Luverne and Shirley shirt puts that over the top.

[PurpleFloyd]

Sure when you completely ignore the fact that he had 100 more attempts per season your logic makes perfect sense.

Completion %, yards per attempt, TD rushing, TD passing, avg rush are all relatively close.

But OK, I understand you just use the stats that matter to your argument and conveniently ignore the rest.

So, just to be fair, what does this say for Bridgewater's career potential in the NFL? Because if you are looking at stats to justify what is going to happen, Bridgewater has nearly identical stats to Brian Brohm, who also went to Louisville so he played for the same team against the same level of competition.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/brian-brohm-1.html

http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/teddy-bridgewater-1.html

I guess we better start looking for the next guy.

[Big Dave2]

Why did JM pass the ball so much? Because he had all american wide receivers and no RB? I believe so.

Or, maybe because he was the best qb in the country? Why do you suppose Payton manning passes the ball so much?

[DrJuice1980]

Gee Big Dave, one would think Manziel should've been taken much higher like Peyton and maybe one would also think that if his greatness was so great he wouldn't be backing up a bottom feeder QB. You must not be able to look beyond the stat line. Common error for the simple minded.

[CaptainMusky]

Exactly Juice. If he was the best qb in college he would have been drafted that way.

[Big Dave2]

I guess we'll see if he's better than Bridgewater. BTW isn't HE a 3rd stringer backing up 2 bottom feeder QBs right now too?

[CaptainMusky]

No big Dave its not a we'll see. If he was the best qb in college he would have been drafted that way. You said it. Not me. Or is it the fact that best qb in college means absolutely nothing to a pro game? If so maybe you are getting wiser.

[DrJuice1980]

Convenient of you to switch to something else, I guess instead of backpedaling you prefer the side-step. Bridgewater is a different forum.

[Big Dave2]

[CaptainMusky]

Proof that LMT and Big Dave are the same person.

BTW the beauty of not sniffing someone's jock like you and your conjoined twin lmit have of JM is that when they flop you don't have to own up to it.

JM is the kindling his flames are about to come.

[FISHINGURU]

Big Dave lost the argument about the stat thing months ago when he said something along the lines of Luck can't hold Johnnys jock as a QB just check their college stats.

[CaptainMusky]

Big Dave lost the argument about the stat thing months ago when he said something along the lines of Luck can't hold Johnnys jock as a QB just check their college stats.

:-)

[Big Dave2]

Quote:

Johnny Manziel Must Be Browns' Starting QB in Week 1

By Chris Roling , Featured Columnist Jul 11, 2014

Let's put the "Football" back in "Johnny Football" for a moment, no?

Johnny Manziel, at 21 years of age and the No. 22 overall pick in the 2014 draft, is the player who must waltz through the tunnel at Heinz Field Week 1 as the Cleveland Browns' starter.

Not Brian Hoyer, and certainly not Tyler Thigpen or Connor Shaw. Manziel, the guy named after, well, the sport.

A star since he was a teenager, birthed from a rich Texas family and an ungodly amount of football talent, Manziel is an international sensation and—gasp—a kid. A rich kid who has managed to transcend traditional tabloid junk stuff like TMZ to the point of being borderline stalked wherever he goes.

While the media focuses on his off-field escapades that are really nothing more than a 21-year-old kid being a 21-year-old kid—while ignoring work he does like mentoring young quarterbacks at the Elite 11—Manziel has been hard at work perfecting his craft when not acting like a normal human being.

Which is what it is. Well, Manziel's not a normal human, so his night's out are going to be a little more extravagant. Mary Kay Cabot of Cleveland.com has a pertinent quote from the man himself:

I don't think I'm doing anything wrong. I'm going out. Everybody goes out on the weekends and enjoys their life and lives their life and just for them, they don't have people that when they walk into a place pull out their phones and all they want to do is follow me around and record everything, so my situation is unique and different and now more than ever I've seen that it's an every weekend thing wherever I'm at, whether it's here in Cleveland on a weekend, or in Dallas or anywhere on a weekend people want to record what I'm doing because they think it's a story.

He's not wrong, and until the results on the field suggest otherwise, Manziel can live life however he wants.

On the field, there is no denying he has what it takes to be the starter right away, and that has to be preferable for Mike Pettine and Co. in an era where rookie signal-callers are routinely thrown to the wolves.

The situation, of course, is quite dire in Cleveland. When Miles Austin and Nate Burleson are the No. 1 targets at wideout, any quarterback will struggle.

But it's better to let Manziel go out there and give the Browns the best chance to win right away than to hope beyond hope that Hoyer can be the starter in the interim. If the franchise was that in love with what the veteran had to offer pre-knee shredding, Manziel wouldn't be in town in the first place.

Per Aditi Kinkhabwala of NFL.com, Pettine has even said Hoyer's lead is not "insurmountable," a smart stance for a head coach who just potentially lost his greatest weapon, per Mike Florio of Pro Football Talk, and has a veteran under center who has not proved to be anything more than a flash in the pan through 192 career pass attempts.

Manziel can, at the very least, improvise on the field and use his escapability to give the Browns a fighting chance. His pairing with offensive coordinator Kyle Shanahan, who helped get the most out of a rookie Robert Griffin III, should prove nothing but fruitful right away (Terrance West, coincidentally, can be quite the Alfred Morris in time).

USA TODAY Sports

After all, should Hoyer go out and stumble, the pressure to bring on Manziel from fans and media will resemble a riot. That's not to suggest a professional coaching staff should be swayed by the wants of a fanbase, but better to avoid a combustible situation that can negatively impact the finances of a franchise, especially when, on paper, they might just have a point.

Should Manziel start Week 1?

Yes

No

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If Manziel struggles and does not seem focused on the task at hand during training camp, then the Browns have a serious issue. But there's nothing to suggest either of those will be the case.

"I want to play. That's what anybody wants to do. Anybody that's been a starter in the past, and been playing, they want to play," he said, per Kinkhabwala. "To say I don't want to be the starter, that would be ridiculous. I absolutely want to start, that's my goal. Hopefully I can achieve that."

Were this another franchise with a rookie quarterback, like say the Minnesota Vikings, a staff that can ride Matt Cassel and Adrian Peterson for a year, then this would be a different conversation entirely.

But this is Cleveland, a dire situation that calls for somewhat extreme measures. That means Manziel needs to be out there from Day 1, and with any luck, he'll come out with a major chip on his shoulder as a reaction to all of the scrutiny and prove the globe wrong.

[CaptainMusky]

Meanwhile in other qb draft busts... http://m.bleacherreport.com/articles/374...amarcus-russell

Is JM under a microscope? You bet, but its because he has proven to do something completely stupid so everyone wants to catch it.

[DrJuice1980]

Weird that Luck, RGIII, and many others with the same football hype werent caught "advertising" themselves at clubs, after parties, pool side in LV, hanging with Beiber, etc.

JM has the right to do all those things, no question. It doesnt mean its smart of him to act in the manner that he does being who he is (smart as in smart for his football career). I dont know how he is but its obvious he is attention starved. He has to get it from somewhere, it sure aint coming from being a 2nd string QB on the Browns...

Maybe even he knows he better prepare himself for life after football, thats the whole point of his character.

Paris Hilton is to Actress as Johnny Manziel is to NFL QB.

[PurpleFloyd]

Quick question- what are Johnny Football's bel career stats? Are they good or bad?

[Big Dave2]

Quick question- what are Johnny Football's bel career stats? Are they good or bad?

bel?

[PurpleFloyd]

Quick question- what are Johnny Football's bel career stats? Are they good or bad?

[FISHINGURU]

Maybe even he knows he better prepare himself for life after football, thats the whole point of his character.

Paris Hilton is to Actress as Johnny Manziel is to NFL QB.

Oh great, so we have to hear Johnny Foosball become a singer in the next few yrs

[CaptainMusky]

Oh great, so we have to hear Johnny Foosball become a singer in the next few yrs

That and I certainly dont want to see one of his sex tapes.

[FISHINGURU]

What's Ol' Johnny Foosball and the Browns been up to lately??

Quote:

At a time when the Johnny Manziel story should start to focus almost solely on football, some members of the Browns organization have turned it into another examination of his off-field life.

Mary Kay Cabot of the Cleveland Plain Dealer wrote a story, citing anonymous Browns sources, saying the team is "alarmed" by his actions since the draft. Manziel has been seen at various parties this offseason. The story said the team was worried enough about a photo of Manziel apparently rolling up a $20 bill that coach Mike Pettine told Cabot that he called the rookie quarterback from his vacation in Hawaii to get answers. The Plain Dealer pointed out that tight-rolled bills are often used for drug use, although there was no evidence in the photo that's what Manziel was doing, Pettine reached out to ask him about it. According to the story, Pettine said he planned to address it again with Manziel face-to-face when he reported for camp with the other rookies on Wednesday.

It isn't just the one photo, either. The Browns sources who talked to Cabot said the team was promised by Manziel before the draft that he would tone down his partying, and the Browns have been "stunned by his non-stop antics" since they took him.

This is a big story for a few reasons. Cabot is one of the best and most respected voices on the Browns beat, so there's little doubt to the legitimacy of what she wrote. Also, take into account the timing and purpose of the story. The Browns knew the talk of Manziel's actions off the field would take a back seat to his quarterback competition with Brian Hoyer once training camp started. The Browns could have easily been quiet about their off-field satisfaction and let the narrative change to Manziel's progress as a player. The sources speaking to Cabot had to know how her story would play out, and they're likely aware that it would put the spotlight back on Manziel's partying on the day the Browns report to camp, when the media attention is high. Instead of protecting their young quarterback, some sources within the Browns set out to do the opposite. It has been less than three months since the Browns took Manziel with the 22nd overall pick, and some within the organization are already seemingly taking a combative stance with the former Heisman winner.

And, there was a troubling football aspect to the story too. The story said Manziel "regressed in practice after the first week of organized team activities," and the team thinks he wasn't dedicated enough to learning the playbook because he was flying around the country and partying. The story said he has already lost ground in the quarterback competition before camp starts.

Manziel has tremendous talent, which is why the Browns took him in the first place. His partying became a big story at Texas A&M, and he still was one of the greatest quarterbacks in college football history his two seasons there. All of this might blow over because Manziel gets his chance in the preseason and dominates on the field.

But as Browns camp starts, the team's dissatisfaction with their rookie quarterback is in the spotlight. It seems like a message is being sent.

[CaptainMusky]

Just like I said, if he would focus ALL of his efforts on his craft, he could possibly forge out an NFL career, but the way he acts he will have a fiery demise.

I aplaud the coaching staff for reaching out and calling him to the table about the actions. Perhaps they can stop it before it gets too bad, but he has done it for years, why change?

[hnd]

man i'm glad my years in my early 20's wasn't well documented. buncha saints up in here.

[CaptainMusky]

man i'm glad my years in my early 20's wasn't well documented. buncha saints up in here.

Sure, but did you stand to make Millions of dollars doing something where your career may only last 10 years?