End of tomatoes bad

[harvey lee]

I have a couple grape tomato plants with a few starting to turn red. I noticed I have some of them that have a bad looking rotten spot on the non attached end-bottom end rot?

How do I cure this for 2 plants or is it too late?

Thanks

[jentz]

you have blossom end rot.Add some epsomsalts to the soil 1tsp per plant,It may not be to late.

[corncob]

Or, uneven watering may cause this.

[harvey lee]

Watering was every day so I do not believe it was from that. All other plants are fine. These 2 are on the opposite end of the garden from the other tomato plants.

[KEN W]

Blossom end rot comes from either to much water or not enough.The plant doesn't have enough calcium.So it takes it from the least necessary part of the plant.....the fruit.

You need the right amount of moisture....not to much or not to little.

As soon as I see tomatoes on my plants,I put a 2-3 inch mulch around them to stabalize the moisture.Use either grass clippings or straw.NOT hay......to many weed seeds.

Harvey in your case probably to much if you are watering every day.I try to give them 1 inch per week.A little more if it is really hot.

[delcecchi]

http://blog.lib.umn.edu/efans/ygnews/2013/02/tomato-blossom-end-rot---facts.html

http://www.extension.umn.edu/distribution/horticulture/M1274.html

[Eric Wettschreck]

I have the same thing going on, first time I've ever seen it. Actually, I've never heard of this.

Good info fellas, thanks.

[harvey lee]

If it is the watering, it's a bit wierd.

My garden has 12 tomatoes plants, All but 3 are regular tomatoes and the 3 are grape and cherry. They all get the same fertilizer and water amounts. The only plants with the blossom end rot are the cherry and grape, the other 9 plants are all good with no end rot.

So why would only the 3 cherry and grape have this issue?

Asa Far as mulch around the plants, they have lawn clipping from the time I plant to the day I pull the plants in the fall. I put the grass clipping on the entire garden by my tomato plants to control weeds and help keep moisture.

As far as watering, I put the sprinkler on for approx 10 minutes per day in the evening.

Today I gave all the plants a little epsom salt and water to each tomato plant, even the ones that do not showe any rot now.

[corncob]

All it means is that the grape and cherry varieties have somewhat different nutritional and/or moisture requirements....Mulching helps a lot to even out moisture availability by contolling evaporation and also weed control...Both grape and cherry tomatoes are indeterminate and grow rapidly requiring nutrient and moisture availability on a steady basis.

[KEN W]

Each variety is different.Some are a lot more suceptable than others.From my experience you are better off watering once a week than a little every day.

[Nainoa]

I have a couple grape tomato plants with a few starting to turn red. I noticed I have some of them that have a bad looking rotten spot on the non attached end-bottom end rot?

How do I cure this for 2 plants or is it too late?

Thanks

It's blossom end rot... It's only slightly related to watering and more related to minerals.

When you set up the bed early in the year you should have either tested the soil and it would have told you it was too acidic... OR you should have tilled in some Lime. (NOT LYE)

Anything that is turning red right now it is too late to save... Whether it will get blossom end rot or not is locked into the starch and mineral profile of the fruit.

Having been in this spot before myself though in back to back years in my old garden...

Here's what worked for me:

Buy a bag of Lime (At whatever garden center)

Take one day where there has been no rain and/or you have not watered the tomatoes... You want them good and thirsty!

Take a 5 gallon bucket. Add in double the amount of lime for 5 gallons into the bucket.

Then fill half way with HOT water. STIR... Then Stir some more... Wait a bit... Stir again... You want to try to dissolve as much into solution as possible.

Then take some Tomato Food type of fertilizer (That is high in soluable potash... The third number on the fertilizer profile) Soluable Potash is also responsible for starch structure in the fruit.

Mix this at double 5 gallon concentration and Stir well to combine into the 2.5 gallons in the bucket.

Next get some epsom salts (Which is high in mineral magnesium and helps with mineral uptake into the plant that over watering might have washed out) Mix this in at double the 5 gallon concentration.

So now you should have all three of these things in the bucket with 2.5 gallons of water... Mixed essentially at quadruple concentration for 5 gallons.

Add in the remaining 2.5 gallons, stirring as you go so that you're not managing a mess to stir at 5 gallons when topped off.

This mixture should be given to handle 10 plants... a half gallon each... Give a Quart to each that night to let it soak in and a quart the next night... With no other watering going on inbetween.

This "Should" take care of the starch and mineral problems of the green tomatoes on the plants carrying through for the rest of the season.

[Nainoa]

Next year when it comes time to till, you should use a double till method... Meaning as soon as the ground is thawed enough that you can turn it, give it a till and then add lime to the soil in the till (So the spring rains can slowly dissolve it into the soil)

If at all possible, try to use dolomitic lime... As it stays in the soil longer and has less of a shock reaction to PH

Then till again right before planting your tomatoes and other Solanum family plants.

[Eric Wettschreck]

I normally till my garden in the fall after harvest, then again in the spring prior to planting.

Is there any benefit to adding lime to the soil in the fall, or do I wait until the spring till?

[Nainoa]

I normally till my garden in the fall after harvest, then again in the spring prior to planting.

Is there any benefit to adding lime to the soil in the fall, or do I wait until the spring till?

I've never done it in the fall. But I'd be a little concerned that through the fall rain and the winter snow melt that you're going to wash a a lot of Lime mineral value out of all but a clay soil.

The fall is a good time to burn some small sticks and leaves in a garden with Acidic soil to add more soluable pot ash. BUt if your soil has a Base PH, I wouldn't do it.

[Rip_Some_Lip]

I have 14 tomato plants and all except 1 look good. It has some disease, I don't think it is blight but has some brown spots all over and looks like it is wilting on top and is noticeably shorter than the rest. My question is should I pull it to prevent it from spreading? It only has 1 green fruit on it. I was going to pull it tonight but thought I would check here first. I counted and have about 120 tomatoes on the combined plants and I have plenty with plenty of flowers left to produce. I don't know if it can spread or not. Thanks for any thoughts.

[Nainoa]

I have 14 tomato plants and all except 1 look good. It has some disease, I don't think it is blight but has some brown spots all over and looks like it is wilting on top and is noticeably shorter than the rest. My question is should I pull it to prevent it from spreading? It only has 1 green fruit on it. I was going to pull it tonight but thought I would check here first. I counted and have about 120 tomatoes on the combined plants and I have plenty with plenty of flowers left to produce. I don't know if it can spread or not. Thanks for any thoughts.

Hard to say what would bite the top of the plant first... Most Tomato diseases hit the older lower leaves first. My guess would be gray leaf... Which IIRC is bacterial. Remove it... Burn the ground where it was growing and watch keenly for it on other plants.

[Dotch]

A few possible misconceptions to clear up about the use of lime. It's not a slam dunk that all soils need lime here in MN and in fact you may potentially cause more harm than good by adding it to higher pH soils. Unfortunately human nature dictates that if some is good more must be better so one can get into a jam quickly in that scenario. The first step would be to sample the soil and get it analyzed. The U of M has a lab that will do this if you want an unbiased source of info. The address is:

http://soiltest.cfans.umn.edu/

The next thing to realize is that lime is used primarily to correct soil pH, not to overcome a calcium or magnesium deficiency as the link Del posted points out. Lime varies as well in its ability to do correct pH depending on where they are in the quarry and the fineness of grind. We could get into a lengthy dissertation here about soil chemistry but in the interest of those who want to stay awake, we'll forego that. Suffice it to say that all soils in MN's widely variable soil types are not created equal and neither is their reaction to soil amendments such as lime. What works on the sand plains doesn't necessarily apply on the clay loams in SC, silt loams in the SE or the peats for grass seed production in NW MN. All different with their little quirks and peculiarities.

That said, in most cases the best time to apply lime to correct soil pH is generally the year prior to when the intended crop is to be planted there. Whenever possible fall applications are made prior to alfalfa seeding for that reason. The reaction takes time to bring the pH to its proper level. Most soils contain a mixture of sand, silt and clay with the heaviest concentration of hydrogen ions to be displaced bound to the clay creating the acid soil pH environment and competing with nutrients, particularly cations such as potassium for sites on those negatively charged clay particles. The exception would be peats and mucks but again we won't go there. That's a whole 'nother ballgame.

As far as fall tillage Eric, on most of the soils in Southern MN, fall tillage has been a long standing practice as it tends to mellow our higher clay content soils out over the process of freezing and thawing and wetting and drying. This is why primary spring tillage can be like playing Russian roulette. Typically the seedbed is more cloddy and lends itself to issues such as poor seed to soil contact. When fall tilled these soils tend to be much more friable in the spring and easier to deal with as opposed to leaving them and trying to get everything accomplished in a narrow window just before planting. I say keep doing it if it works for you. It's one less pass generally required in the spring if you have time to do it.

[Rip_Some_Lip]

I have a couple more questions. 1st question is to Nainoa. How do you burn the ground? 2nd is for Dotch. I live in Blue Earth and I have heavy soils. I till in some sand every year and till in compost every couple years. I always till in fall, then again in spring. Seems like the last couple years it gets really clumpy. Is that from too much tilling or tilling it too wet? I get anxious to get the taters in and maybe till it too wet. What are your thoughts? Thanks for the help, I learn a lot from this forum.

[Dotch]

Thanks Rip Some Lip. I learn a lot here too. Some of it actually useful.

Tilling most soils in SC and SW MN when too wet is an absolute kiss of death and will result in the seedbed conditions you describe. It may also form a pan or zone of resistance if practiced repeatedly, making the problem even worse. The high clay content makes these soils stick together like glue when worked wet. Soil sampling them when too wet works about the same: Tough to get the stuff back out of the probe and hence take a quality sample. A few days of patience can make a huge difference in how the ground behaves. About the only way to quickly make your ground appreciably faster in the spring is to do like my friend did and run a drain tile through his garden. Of course he owns his own tile plow so that made it a little easier. Adding sand and compost to the topsoil may help the top few inches by increasing earthworm channels but there is a limit to how much that will change the soil's behavior in the near term. Not that it's a bad idea but remember, there is probably over 90 or more feet of clay to the bedrock in most of the area so you're impacting a pretty small portion of the soil in the overall scheme of things. Internal drainage is not the strong suit of these soils as this spring demonstrated even for some farmers who had tile up the wazoo. It is however its saving grace when we have a drought such as we had in 2012. Few areas in what's considered the corn belt can hold more water in the top 5' than we can. Provided you can get it planted, you can raise a lot of corn, soybeans and vegetables with 11" - 12" of water in the tank at the end of June even with a hot dry July and August.

[Eric Wettschreck]

Tons of good info here, thanks fellas.

Even though I live in farm country, I know very little about farming. I grew up dairy farming but I never got involved in the business end of things, I just did what Buck Broadbent told me to do. Now, if you need a boiler tube rolled or a turbine repaired I'm your guy.

Fall tillage........At seasons end I pluck out all the plants and toss them in the burn pit. Then I till. Should I leave all these plants in the garden and till those bad boys in?

[Dotch]

Many schools of thought on that question and the pat answer is probably "it depends".

Typically what I do is leave as much as I can with the possible exception of the squash and pumpkin vines. Getting them wound up in the tiller can make it look like a bait cast reel full of backlash. Removing the vines then tilling also helps cut down on the amount of squash vine borer we have to deal with. The rest of the residue I till in as the garden is large enough that rarely do the same or related vegetables get planted in the same area more than once every 5 years. The exception here is the area that is flip-flopped between sweet corn and squash/pumpkins every other year. Even there I've introduced strips of totally unrelated stuff and have been amazed at the rotational effect. I was finally able to till that area last weekend and that is where a large portion of my winter radishes got planted last night. Incorporating residue also adds organic material, helping maintain soil tilth. Others have different criteria influencing their decision making process but this works for me.

[harvey lee]

Thanks for all the helpful info.

[masoct3]

Watering was every day so I do not believe it was from that. All other plants are fine. These 2 are on the opposite end of the garden from the other tomato plants.

I have 12 5-gallon buckets with 1/2 inch drill holes on the bottom, as well as a 1/2 inch nut to hold up the buckets. This way, it will not cause root rot or even tomato rot. My different varieties are busting with color.

P.S. I water them every other day.

[delcecchi]

What do you guys, like Dotch, think of adding gypsum to clay soils to improve texture. I don't do much gardening any more since I like to fish too much, and besides I have soil I could make pottery from. Also bambi and thumper and their extended families....

But I am still curious about gypsum

[Dotch]

I don't do much gardening any more since I like to fish too much, and besides I have soil I could make pottery from. Also bambi and thumper and their extended families....

But I am still curious about gypsum

The fishing part sounds like a good problem to have. I wish I were so afflicted.

Gypsum has been touted as a magic elixir for just about anything that ails your soil from dog pee spots to radically changing poor soil structure. A lot of the time though when one looks at who's touting it, it's someone who stands to make a financial gain. It is useful in certain situations, in particular sodic and saline soils in the western US under irrigation. The buildup of sodium gets to be more than the plants being grown in it can handle so gypsum is used to precipitate it out. It also has value as a sulfur source since it's calcium sulfate.

It was used on the sand plains in this manner is some of the experiments being done when I was working on soil fertility plots as an undergrad at the U. More recently, as a result of the scrubbing of sulfur from the power plant smoke stacks and a reduction in sulfur in diesel fuel, we've been seeing more sulfur deficiency in corn, alfalfa and small grains and to a lesser degree soybeans. Gypsum works there too but the primary sulfur source available in this part of the state has been ammonium sulfate.

As far as improving the texture of the soil, highly doubtful in your area. If sulfur is a limiting factor and whatever you're trying to grow doesn't produce much biomass, then theoretically it helps but then it still goes back to sulfur and not the source. When you say clay soils I'm guessing you mean eroded clay soils, brown in color, indicating not much organic matter, probably < 2%. If that's the case, adding manure, compost or other source of carbon is about the only way to increase organic matter and the tilth. It's pretty tough to influence the actual texture and organic matter as measured in the lab in the short term but after a number of years it can be changed.

As we go west into the prairie soils such as where I'm at, we also have some high clay soils, several of which are lacustrine in nature, formed under old lake beds much the same as Lake Agassiz. They are tight soils but the organic matter runs 5- 7%. They are still sticky in spite of that. We also have some eroded slopes however and there the organic matter will drop down into the 2 - 3% range. It's under these conditions that we see the greatest response to sulfur applications as sulfur is mineralized from organic matter to supply the plants. Under cool, wet springs, we can see visual deficiencies and sulfur responses on just about any soils where it's been applied. Unfortunately, this doesn't always translate into increased yields.