Nitrogen pollution

[Big Bobber]

With your plan decrease in yields will wipe out most of the savings in ethanol production. Ethanol is moving to stover in many parts of the country anyway. It is becoming more and more evident that you have never derived your livelihood from agriculture. As I stated in an earlier post, we have taken ground out of production, spent thousands of dollars on buffer strips and water ways, dialed back use of chemicals and fertilizer, and changed tilling practices. Guess we just wasted our money trying to do our part to make things better. One of our farms didn't get planted this year because the farm has no tile. When we get heavy rain, there is nothing but run off and ponding. The runoff goes across our farm into the water way into the nearby creek, then into the nearby river, then to the Coralville resevoir. The landlord wants to tile, but there are no county mains close buy. We just lost 40% of our production. Since I am a sporting type of person, I will sublease that ground to you for the next ten years, and we will compare with the farm that is next to it, that we have taken 20 acres out of production since 1992 to put conservation measures into place. 160 acres versus 140. Want to take me up on it? We will custom farm it for you, so you will not need to find someone to do that for you. Your plan will go along way to make sure that the world is adequately fed, and that we do not destroy our balance of trade any more than it is. Are you part of the Obama administration? Plug all the tiles?

Better stop fracking also since we do not know yet what all the adverse effects are. Glad you want to make us more dependent on foreign oil. We can't get to green fast enough. Are you going to stop irrigation because it may lower the water table? Can't go back to horses because of the manure problem. I have already solved many of the problems for you.

Bet you will not lay out a well thought out solution to the problem that does not totally destroy the economy. Bet you will just take jabs at what others have posted. Can take shots at others posts, but can't come up with well thought out solutions. Remember, if you are not part of the solution you are part of the problem!

[Big Bobber]

"Should we talk about all the new tillable land that has popped up in the past 10 years, most of which was land not suitable for farming but was put into production anyway with the help of MORE field tile and results in MORE runoff?

Per your words? Field tile does not increase runoff. It helps control runoff. I would rather have water that has percolated down into the ground 3-5 feet and had a chance to be filtered by the subsoil than to deal with runoff that is taking chemical and dry fertilizer that is only incorporated within a few inches of the top of the soil and reaching our tributaries instantly. All rain water does not run into the tile to flow into a creek, river or lake. The subsoil is regenerated to hold the water. Some subsoils can hold 1 inch of water per foot, some soils can hold 2 inches of water per foot. If there is no tile and the subsoil it saturated, the water runs off, taking chemicals and nutrients with it. It is easy to look at the past which what the polution statistics are based on, look at the conservation measures that are happening today. Research the changes that have been made in Agriculture in the last 3 years and extrapolate the same numbers forward.

Over the last few years we have cut our fertilizer application by about 40%. Last year due to the drought, after harvest we still had about 25% of the nitrogen available for this year. That meant we could apply 25% less this year than last year. We test every fall and spring to see how much nitrogen we need to apply for the current crop year. Multiple passes cost us more money, but we are trying to improve the ecosystem and save some money. In our area we are not alone on this. We have some sharp, young, progressive agronomists on our side. If they have some questions, ISU is just a few miles down the road, and we have seen several of the professors on our farm answering questions. It is an eye opening situation for them as well.

[PurpleFloyd]

[quote name='PBS Possibly the largest source of nutrients comes from farms in Illinois' date=' Iowa, Ohio and southwest Minnesota, where drainage tiles -- plastic pipes that crisscross underground - - drain the once-wet soil, making it arable, and dry enough for corn and soybean crops. But these pipes also flush nitrogen fertilizer into tributaries, which lead to rivers and eventually the Gulf.

In fact, research shows that the most heavily tile-drained areas of North America also contribute the largest source of nitrates to the Gulf of Mexico, which add to the dead zone, according to Mark David, a professor of biogeochemistry from the University of Illinois. [/quote']

You quoted PBS? That is rich.

Are you getting your intel from Big Bird or The Count?

I count 1 PPM of Nitrates! Ha Ha Ha Ha....... 2 yes 2 PPM of nitrates! Ha Ha Ha Ha....... ( Sound of thunder and lightning in the background)

On second though it was probably Mr Snuffleupagus. The imaginary one.

[LMITOUT]

Glad you want to make us more dependent on foreign oil.

[Big Bobber]

Makes me feel good that you are now an Al Gore desciple. I new the inner democrat would finally come to the surface. All I know is that I have done my part on our farm to improve the area we control. FYI, I do not sell to the ethanol plant. I do not need to pay the trucking to get it to the plant and the dividend I get from the local cooperative offsets what I would get from the plant. Where I live is a different story. They pay way better than where I farm. All you can do is spew the media points on the other side to try to solidify your points. Again with your last post, most of it is commentary on what someone else posted, not a well thought out plan to improve the situation without ruining a fragile economy.

My days working for Cargill taught me one thing that I took with me when I helped take our company public. Hire slow and fire fast. You sir are fired. I am done with this thread until you can describe what you are doing in any way to help fix the problem that you think won't ever go away other than plugging all the tiles and closing all the ethanol plants. If you had your way and plugged the tiles and had us quit using fertilizer, there would not be any corn for ethanol anyway. It is always amusing when you never seem to acknowledge any good someone is doing, but seem to always hop on your tired methods to communicate media snips of information. I am only one person looking to the future, knowing that the methods I am using in my operation are making a difference on the land that I take care of. By the way, yes I do farm 400 acres, but that is not where i derive most of me income. The farming is just a hobby that I can't seem to get out of my system. Born on the farm and will probably die on the farm, just not the one I was raised on. My 89 year old father with nothing more than an 8th grade education makes more sense than some Al Gore loving engineer. Dad is also embracing modern conservation methods on his farm. He enjoys farming his ground as much today as when he first stated farming after he came home from WWII. Lots of years and lots of changes witnessed in his lifetime. I hope I continue to enjoy taking care of my land as long as he has enjoyed taking care of his by both of us embracing better conservation practices. Wish I could say I enjoyed the banter, but some non ag folks need to hear some of the things now being done to correct some of the problems of the past. Just had to show people what a troll looks like when they are not able to offer well thought out solutions to fix problems of the past and share what we are doing in our farming operation to improve things.

About the only way that you would agree with me is if I said the Minnesota Vikings suck. I am not going down that path here. That is another forum that you like to troll.

I am lucky, I was taught to be self sufficient. About the only things we needed from town when I was young were sugar, salt flour, baking soda and baking powder. We literally raised the rest of our food and butchered our own meat, had our own milk, churned our own butter and made our own ice cream. I could do it today, but hope it never gets to that again. For all of us, I hope it never gets to that point. Do the things you propose and food will become an issue in this country. Coops will still sell where they can make the most money, and the Chinese have plenty of it. When I worked for Cargill of the corn went to Mexico. My residence is 60 miles from where I farm, and this area is flooded with ethanol plants. Most of the corn at the local cooperatives still goes on a "Speed Train" to the west coast or as cracked corn to Mexico.

As you said, yes I do have a vested interest in Agriculture, but not in the ethanol industry as you try to hang on me. Just pointing out that plugging tiles and eliminating fertilizer will make the ethanol plants go away anyway.

Plant genitics have come a long way, but the fertilizer tests we have done on our farm in conjunction with our coop show that using no fertilizer will not grow a crop, and large amounts of fertilizer is a waste. We have dialed back to what is consumed by the plant in a normal growing year.

[LMITOUT]

Makes me feel good that you are now an Al Gore desciple. I new the inner democrat would finally come to the surface.

[graingrower]

The first thing I do when I purchase a tract of land is pattern tile. The second order of business is to cover it with liquid manure. A subsoil ripper will come in next to shatter any compacted soil layers. Prior to the next growing season, a VERIS machine will record CEC data for a production prescription. Lime will be variable rate broadcast. Satellite imagery and harvest mapping will further enhance a plan that will always be superior to the musings of a metro "journalism" rag.

[BobT]

Quote:

Unfortunately the problem is bigger than one 400 acre farm.

You finally understand that this is a bigger issue that affects us all. Wonderful!

[BuckSutherland]

What amazes me in this whole debate is the city types always fail to see the millions of acres of good farmland that have been paved over by shopping, resturants and housing developments.

Gee, I wonder why we are bringing marginal acres back into production. I am fine with any ETHOL mandate leaving. Fine with all the subsidies and ins programs leaving too. Make sure CRP and CREP and RIM all go with it. I am going to tile out several wetlands this fall since I no longer report to any programs.

[delcecchi]

With your plan decrease in yields will wipe out most of the savings in ethanol production. Ethanol is moving to stover in many parts of the country anyway. It is becoming more and more evident that you have never derived your livelihood from agriculture. As I stated in an earlier post, we have taken ground out of production, spent thousands of dollars on buffer strips and water ways, dialed back use of chemicals and fertilizer, and changed tilling practices. Guess we just wasted our money trying to do our part to make things better. One of our farms didn't get planted this year because the farm has no tile. When we get heavy rain, there is nothing but run off and ponding. The runoff goes across our farm into the water way into the nearby creek, then into the nearby river, then to the Coralville resevoir. The landlord wants to tile, but there are no county mains close buy. We just lost 40% of our production. Since I am a sporting type of person, I will sublease that ground to you for the next ten years, and we will compare with the farm that is next to it, that we have taken 20 acres out of production since 1992 to put conservation measures into place. 160 acres versus 140. Want to take me up on it? We will custom farm it for you, so you will not need to find someone to do that for you. Your plan will go along way to make sure that the world is adequately fed, and that we do not destroy our balance of trade any more than it is. Are you part of the Obama administration? Plug all the tiles?

Better stop fracking also since we do not know yet what all the adverse effects are. Glad you want to make us more dependent on foreign oil. We can't get to green fast enough. Are you going to stop irrigation because it may lower the water table? Can't go back to horses because of the manure problem. I have already solved many of the problems for you.

Bet you will not lay out a well thought out solution to the problem that does not totally destroy the economy. Bet you will just take jabs at what others have posted. Can take shots at others posts, but can't come up with well thought out solutions. Remember, if you are not part of the solution you are part of the problem!

Who gets the payment from the government for being unable to plant? 45% of normal yield times current price, and you don't have to buy seed, chemicals, or nitrogen. And you can plant a cover crop that can be used to feed cattle.

[jentz]

Just more corporate welfare! And some have the huevos to complain about people who need some help

[Big Bobber]

In my case, no one. I am not in the program, so I am self insured. No welfare here. I do not insure what I can afford to lose.

[Dotch]

Who gets the payment from the government for being unable to plant? 45% of normal yield times current price, and you don't have to buy seed, chemicals, or nitrogen. And you can plant a cover crop that can be used to feed cattle.

That's a little misleading in that it's not a cash the check, sit back and do nothing scenario. Most guys in this area for prevent plant on corn would receive somewhere in the $500 per acre range. In many cases the N,P,K and S fertilizer and chemicals had already been applied to the tune of $150 - $200 per acre. Tack on the rent at anywhere from $200 - $400 per acre not to mention the cost of maintaining and seeding the prevented plant acreage which will run anywhere from $25 - $50 an acre. Machinery costs would still be spread over the acreage too even though there would be no harvestable crop taken off of it. It bleeds red ink pretty fast.

Plant a cover crop to feed cattle? Yup, it can be harvested or grazed November 1st last I knew although there has been talk that some of the acreage may be opened up if you can demonstrate that your alfalfa winterkilled and you need the forage. One stipulation of that though is that it's to be for your own use, not to be sold. At this point all of that is just talk. I've still seen nothing official in writing from FSA that will allow harvest or grazing before November 1st. And then one has to think of how it's going to be handled. Making dry hay in November in SC MN could/would be a challenge so one would probably be looking more at chopping and bagging or filling silo during what is likely to be corn picking time. That could come back to haunt if we happened to receive one of those blizzards of the century soon afterwards. Not calling it but stranger things have happened. I do know that seeding alfalfa will be allowed at least in Steele and Waseca counties as long as it is seeded August 15th or later. There will be no chance for a harvestable crop but it does allow one to get a leg up on next year. All of this of course is if you actually still have cattle and a facility to feed them. Lots of liquidation going on from small dairy and beef producers who have had enough after the alfalfa winter killed.

All in all this spring is going to leave a nasty mark in SE and SC MN, not only with farmers but on main street as well. There will be fewer new pickups purchased, less machinery replaced and the fertilizer and chemical dealers will feel it too. Not looking forward to it myself.

[kerryd15]

Dotch is correct with november 1st on harvesting the PP acres. At that point it will not pay to harvest as the feed value is long gone. We need paul Harvey back, to get the rest of the story. Prevent plant is not a percentage of yield. It is an amount based on the crop that was intended to be planted. Most inputs were probably purchased last fall, even if not applied. Those dollars are still tied up with suppliers. Its a little bigger than taking something back to menards. We are talking hundreds of thousands of dollars and will affect everyone. If I remember the numbers right, if you spend a dollar locally it is generally spent seven times locally.

[kerryd15]

I can't edit my previous post. Prevent plant is 60% of the original guarantee or percentage of Actual Production History. I thought it was a flat rate.