Restoring hardwood flooring

[Eric Wettschreck]

Bit of a long story coming..............

During the SW MN April ice storms I had the pleasure of a couple trees depositing into my house. Now we're in the middle of some fairly major repairs.

This house was built in the late 1800's early 1900 time frame. No one really knows for sure. It was a rural skool house until the 1940's and that's when it was moved a couple miles to where it is now, and converted into a house.

Over the weekend I ripped down the totally destroyed ceiling in my dining room and main floor laundry type room. I knew this would ruin the carpet but what the heck, insurance is replacing it. After I shoveled up the total mess from the ceiling, I pulled up the carpet. Under the carpet was a type of lynolium flooring. I pulled that up and wow, the hardwood flooring under that is the old school kind and it looks pretty cool. It's full of glue and age and wear but from the couple small spots I scraped and sanded down to the real wood it looks really neat.

The wife saw it and has decreed it's getting restored. Translation, Eric's restoring it.

I'm a boilermaker and not a flooring expert, however, I do have quite a bit of experience in woodworking. My question is, could this really be as simple as an orbital sander or belt sander and elbow grease? Also, once all the glue and goo is gone, and I'm down to the real wood, what does a guy finish/protect it with?

[Tom7227]

From what I know about it one issue is whether there's enough wood left to take a sanding. If it has been sanded enough times you might find that you're down to the tongue and grove. Probably doubtful as I can't see anyone sanding down a school floor.

But if you DIY I would check on renting a floor sander with the proper belts. I think there may even be special machines for the edges where you can't get the big rig.

There are tricks to doing it so you don't gouge the behjeesus out of it but I've never done it so I don't know what the tricks are. Given your location you may have a tough time finding a contractor to do it and I know you're trying to keep the expenses in line given all the work you have to do. But if you did they would get it done in a day or two, time you may not have.

http://www.doityourself.com/stry/woodfloorsanding#.UZrTlco8lZg

[DavidWilliams]

Beware of using a belt sander as you are bound to gouge the wood if your hands slip. An orbital sander would be good, except the corners may need to be done by hand. I would just stain and varnish when you are done sanding. What kind of wood is it?

[JOHNBIGDOG]

I had a similar issue at my house. I had old linoleum over the wood floor. some of the linoleum was worn through to the wood floor underneath. I used a Wagner wall paper steamer (70 bucks) and it worked great for loosening up the glue.

[Eric Wettschreck]

What kind of wood is it?

So far it's looking like Maple. Not real sure yet as there's still a lot of goop on it that needs to be cleaned off.

When the time comes I'll look into getting a floor sander. I never thought of that.

[Snowking]

I hate to say the word but I would test the glue for asbestos that might be the determining factor as how to take it up. If nun is found I'd use a floor sander. It is an art to use one but in the right hands the floor will look amazing.

[SkunkedAgain]

At the relatively young age of 22, my roommates and I refinished the hardwood floors in our apartment in exchange for rent concessions. We rented a big belt sander for the main areas and a hand sander for the edges and corners. We bought a range of sandpaper grits, stain, and then used probably four or five coats of poly to seal it. If a couple of 22 year olds could do that while chugging beers, you can certainly do it.

BTW - the landlord was so impressed that we got an extra month of rent for free. Neither of us had done a floor before.

Now it's been a few decades, but my only advice is to be careful with the belt sander. I don't think it's an art or anything scary. You just need to start off very lightly until you understand how quickly that thing can strip off the wood. After that you're home free.

As for the poly, use as many coats as necessary. High traffic areas, rooms that will see lots of kids or stains, or pets that might pee all make extra coats worth while. My take was that you either take the brushing/drying time to do a few extra coats now or you take a ton more time in a year or two to redo everything if something gets through a coat or two of poly.

[MinnesotaMike]

Eric,

I redid the floors in my first house, I was around 24 at the time. Rent the floor sander and take it easy until you get the hang of it. Mine turned out nice as it was all oak.

Word of advice, don't let sweat drip on raw wood.....

I polyed mine because I liked the look of the natural wood.

Good Luck,

Mike

[PurpleFloyd]

Bit of a long story coming..............

During the SW MN April ice storms I had the pleasure of a couple trees depositing into my house. Now we're in the middle of some fairly major repairs.

This house was built in the late 1800's early 1900 time frame. No one really knows for sure. It was a rural skool house until the 1940's and that's when it was moved a couple miles to where it is now, and converted into a house.

Over the weekend I ripped down the totally destroyed ceiling in my dining room and main floor laundry type room. I knew this would ruin the carpet but what the heck, insurance is replacing it. After I shoveled up the total mess from the ceiling, I pulled up the carpet. Under the carpet was a type of lynolium flooring. I pulled that up and wow, the hardwood flooring under that is the old school kind and it looks pretty cool. It's full of glue and age and wear but from the couple small spots I scraped and sanded down to the real wood it looks really neat.

The wife saw it and has decreed it's getting restored. Translation, Eric's restoring it.

I'm a boilermaker and not a flooring expert, however, I do have quite a bit of experience in woodworking. My question is, could this really be as simple as an orbital sander or belt sander and elbow grease? Also, once all the glue and goo is gone, and I'm down to the real wood, what does a guy finish/protect it with?

The toughest part might be dealing with the adhesive. As stated above depending on what type of adhesive it is there may be asbestos in it. Removing the adhesive can be tricky and you certainly want it gone before you start sanding or you will gum up the abrasives and that will get expensive replacing all of the time. Let me know how easy you can get that off and snap a picture or two for me and i can see if I can give you some pointers. Sometimes a paint scraper can get it off.

Once you are to the clear coat then yes, use a floor sander and an orbital for the edges you can't get into with the big machine. Once you have it to bare wood, fill any nail holes with solvent based wood filler, sand that off and then decide if you want to stain it or leave it natural and then clear coat it. The waterbased floor finishes are becoming more and more popular but the conventional oil based finishes have proven their worth over time too.

[leech~~]

If your insurance is going to pay for the damage? Um, didn't the floor get damaged as well? I think they got people for that!

[Eric Wettschreck]

The toughest part might be dealing with the adhesive. As stated above depending on what type of adhesive it is there may be asbestos in it. Removing the adhesive can be tricky and you certainly want it gone before you start sanding or you will gum up the abrasives and that will get expensive replacing all of the time. Let me know how easy you can get that off and snap a picture or two for me and i can see if I can give you some pointers. Sometimes a paint scraper can get it off.

The couple areas on the floor I did some work on, the adhesive came up with some elbow grease, a stiff putty knife, and a hot air gun.

I have a ton more work to do in these rooms before I'm ready to attack the flooring for real. I just finished scabbing in new ceiling joists and am on to insulating and sheetrock. It's taking some time as I'm doing it after work. I'll snap a couple of pics for ya when I'm all ready to attack this end of the project.

As far as asbestos goes......I'm in my later 40's and have been a boilermaker since I was 18. Spent a lot of time in ships firerooms. I've huffed so much of that stuff a little more won't make any difference. Kids are gone, it's just me and the wife and if she doesn't want to inhale it she can do me a favor and leave the room.

Thanks fellas.

[SkunkedAgain]

...and a hot air gun.

You mean your wife's hair dryer?

[Bobby Bass]

Having done a few floors you do learn a few ways not to do it, don't use a belt sander, you will gouge the floor. Do rent a drum sander to clean up the big open areas and it goes with out saying never sand across the grain. If you decide to stain two coats are better then one and several finish coats are better then two. Give the finished floor a chance to dry and harden, keep throw rugs off for at least a week but the most important thing is make the work area is as dust free as you can, Vacuum and the vacuum again, use tack cloths to wipe floor down and make sure your forced air furnace is off. Clean your walls to remove all sanding dust before you start to finish. Back brush to make sure you don't leave any air bubbles in the finish and keep the dust off and you will have a good looking floor. Older floors may have some cupping to the boards and you can spend a lot of time and remove a lot of material trying to level them. Very hard to get an old floor to look like it was just installed so be careful how much you sand with the drum sander. Buy twice as many sanding belts as you think you will need, you can always return the unused ones.

[PurpleFloyd]

The couple areas on the floor I did some work on, the adhesive came up with some elbow grease, a stiff putty knife, and a hot air gun.

I have a ton more work to do in these rooms before I'm ready to attack the flooring for real. I just finished scabbing in new ceiling joists and am on to insulating and sheetrock. It's taking some time as I'm doing it after work. I'll snap a couple of pics for ya when I'm all ready to attack this end of the project.

As far as asbestos goes......I'm in my later 40's and have been a boilermaker since I was 18. Spent a lot of time in ships firerooms. I've huffed so much of that stuff a little more won't make any difference. Kids are gone, it's just me and the wife and if she doesn't want to inhale it she can do me a favor and leave the room.

Thanks fellas.

Lol.

I figured a crusty old bacon eater like you would be too tough for the asbestos to have any effect. More along the lines of making sure to not leave any behing for future grand kids to inhale.

Sounds like you have a darn good handle on the project.

[reddog]

If I had to guess the flooring is 3/8 thick and about 1 1/2 wide. Like mentioned above, if the flooring had been sanded/refinished a few times in its earlier life, there may not be enough left to sand without sanding through the groove. If the groove gets too thin, then it starts to break off in pieces when walked on (flexing), and you will get slivers in your feet. Ask me how I know this.....

I would definitely check out the wear pattern and make sure you have enough thickness left to sand. The 3/8 thick flooring only has about 1/8 inch of life in it when it's new..that's not very much sanding, especially if you need to take off adhesive.

[PurpleFloyd]

OK I am going to say that I believe the flooring is going to be 3/4 thick and not 3/8 thick unless it is a laminate and was installed in the last 15 years or so.

The point about sanding and getting down to the tongue is a solid point though.with traditional flooring you generally have .25 inches to the tongue.

[Snowking]

I just did the floors in my house a month ago. The guy that did it went across the grain. I did question it as I'm a cabinet maker. He explained that if you go with the grain you run the risk of making the floor to uneven. It's hard to make sence of it but he's been doing it for 15years so ill take what he says. He started out with a 36 grit and then 80 and finished with a 100. After the first coat he screened it with a 180 and then a 240 screen after the second. He also said to keep rugs of for a month because it that's that long for the finish to fully cure

[Eric Wettschreck]

Crusty old bacon eater, good one. I figure once everything is all sanded over and multiple coats of poly (or whatever I use) are applied all the asbestos will be locked back in for life and not floating around the room for the grandbabies to inhale.

My dining room is shaped somewhat like a big "L". As part of this project I framed off a chunk of it and am turning it into a real life main floor laundry/mud room. Saturday I ran the plumbing. I hole sawed through the framing, hardwood, and sub floor to get into the basement. The actual hardwood is 1 1/2 inches thick. Like I stated earlier, this building was an old skool house that was built in the late 1800 to early 1900 time frame. There are a couple of small chunks, aboot 2 inch by 6 inch that someone at sometime cut out, and put in regular boards. I think I"m going to leave them there.........adds to the flavor of the old county skool thing. Same with some of the squeaks. Yeah, I'm going to do what i can to eliminate most of them, but the squeaking floor is what let me know when the kids got home, when they lived here. Again, more old skool flavor.

Yesterday I put the first layer of tape and mud on the sheetrock. My daughter is coming back from Rochester next weekend to help the wife paint. (I absolutely HATE painting) After paint is dry, it's time to do the floor. Maybe next weekend depending on the weather. If I get 3-4 rainless days I'm going to be shingling. If the rain continues, I'll be doing floor.

So far, we're thinking no stain as we both like the look of the natural wood. As far as coatings go, what do yous guys recommend. Regular polyurathane? Or is there something different I should use. Good info on no rugs for a month or so also, thanks for the tip.

[reddog]

There should be plenty of sanding left on that floor . Good luck. I used a fibrous squeegee type applicator. It worked very well. I won't know what product I used till I get home, but I was happy with it.

[PurpleFloyd]

Eric,

The 2 main choices are going with a traditional oil based poly or floor finish or the newer water based floor finishes. It sorta sounds like the "old school" poly might be the ticket for you as it will give that traditional amber aged look over time. It takes longer to dry but seems to be easier to apply for those who don't do it every day.

If you want it to stay white and not go yellow on you over time then water based is the way to go.

[Eric Wettschreck]

Well, that was an interesting project. It took forever to get all the old adhesive off, hot air gun and putty knife is what it took.

The varnish they used 100+ years ago is the real deal. I don't know how many 22 grit belts I went through but it took a lot. There are also a couple doors and casement I took down to sand and re-stain that ate up quite a few 40 grit belts on my belt sander. I'm thinking you could pour that stuff on your roof and it will never leak again.

I ended up having to go against the grain one time, diagonal another time, the other way diagonal, then with the grain all in 22 to finally get to the bare wood. Then again with 36,60, and 100. Once I got down to the wood I found quite a few hidden treasures. Drilled in holes, pine board patches, etc that needed to be fixed. I had some older oak boards laying around so I used them to make plugs for the holes and cut some into strips to replace the pine boards that were nailed in. Lots of smaller nail holes also that I used left over sawdust to make my own filler and got busy filling holes.

I really like the look of real wood so we used a "Natural" color stain in an attempt to just bring out the grain a bit. Well, that didn't work, it went and got darker than we wanted and no 2 boards took the stain the same. However, I think it looks cool. Kind of reminds me of the old church I went to when I was just a little shaver. There are also a few "Stains" in the wood that wouldn't come out. It wouldn't surprise me if things like kerosene lamps were knocked over a time or 2 in this building. It was an old prairie skool house for many years.

5 coats of poly later and a couple weeks of waiting for things to get good and hard and it's finally done. Which I appreciate cuz I'm really wanting to get out of construction mode and have my house back. We put felt pads under the table and chairs and moved them from the living room back to the dining room where they belong.

It's far from perfect but the house is over 100 years old and I think it added to it's character a bit. Thanks for the advise fellas. It really isn't rocket sugary, just a lot of time, elbow grease, and dust everywhere.

[nofishfisherman]

Nice job.

To me it looks exactly the way a 100 year old floor should look. I like the character with the stains, variations in color, and imperfections.

[Tom7227]

Looks good. Did you rent a floor sander or tough it out with a home rig?

[Pinusbanksiana]

Excellent, you should be proud of the work you put in.

[Eric Wettschreck]

Quote:

To me it looks exactly the way a 100 year old floor should look. I like the character with the stains, variations in color, and imperfections.

Thanks. I agree. At first I wasn't happy with the way the stain took but after a couple minutes I really liked it. We're actually trying to keep some of the original feel of the building and this really helps.

Quote:

Looks good. Did you rent a floor sander or tough it out with a home rig?

Both. I did a TON of work with the home rig then rented a floor sander to try and make things finished and smooth. The majority of work was done with the rented floor sander but you just can't take away from some hand sanding in the interesting places. Between boards, low spots, etc.

Quote:

Excellent, you should be proud of the work you put in.

Thank you. At this stage of the game it's hard to believe I was in this room, a couple months ago, working my chain saw to get a tree out of the way of the bathroom door. Amazing what a couple months of blood sweat and tears will do to a few rooms.

There is a down side. The wife likes the way it turned out so much she wants ((translation, she wants Eric) to do the same in our bedroom.