Predator Lakes

[MuskieFever]

I have noticed a trend that a lot of lakes with high musky populations tend to have bass pushed up shallower. Has anyone else noticed this pattern? Especially in the metro, there is a lot of structure that looks good but simple is vacant of bass. So I thought I'd see how others change their tactics.

[corncob]

I Think you are correct bass buster...Leech is an example of the same phenomenon where most bass seem to be in the very heavily weeded shallow areas of the lake.....Seems that roaming around in much deeper water is not a good idea for bass longevity.

[tolle141]

What lakes are you fishing? Honestly I've never seen anything different between lakes that do and don't have muskies. Calhoun, Harriet, Minnetonka, waconia, Indy. Bass are shallow water species. Considering how low density musky populations are I can't see them having much of an effect on bass location.

If you're trying deep try a 3 1/2" tube on flouro or slow rolling a spinnerbaits on the weedline.

[RawHog]

Baby little bass up shallow maybe The big bass are down there deep.

[Prairiefire]

My favorite dock lakes are all top Muskie lakes. I agree that they're pushing a certain percentage of the fish shallower.

[Deitz Dittrich]

Hard to say, I agree and disagree at the same time. Forest Lake is for sure a shallow bite for the most part, but you can have great deep days too. Waconia you still find bass deep all the time.

I will say this, a muskie can shut down a pattern really quick.. But once things settle down can go back to normal.

I will now defer to Mr. Kimm Calling RK!!!

[MuskieFever]

I was mostly referring to Forest and Bald. Both lakes have a great dock and shallow water bite, but I seem to really struggle deeper on those bodies of water.

[Sproguy]

It is my personal theory that if a lake has good weeds the Muskies don't effect them as much. If a lake is open devoid of open water weed beds they push them into tight cover situations generally shallow.

There are of course exceptions but overall if a lake (such as Forest or Bald Eagle) has little to no deep grass and Muskies I grab a flipping stick and go shallow. I also tend to feel that overall (not all days) the bass won't chase a moving bait. I think nature has taught them that if you head out into open water moving fast you become breakfast for the bully on the block.

I fish a lot up in Hayward area and it has become a rule that largemouth come in the thickest cover around and rarely will chase in open water. They will come out from under some pads to eat a fluke or spinnerbait but they won't touch a spinnerbait on a point.

Just my theory.

[NELS-BELLS]

As some have already mentioned, its not that way on all muskie lakes. Also the time of the year might have something to do with it.

My son and I fished Lake Alexander and Round lake near Randall (both have muskies) last year on Labor Day weekend. We caught most of our quality bass on the weedline, with jig/craw set ups. The weedlines on both lakes are about 15' give or take. We even had a muskie follow.

I'm sure the Muskies do have some influence on bass location but not as much as you may think. (ex. you still find Smallmouth on rock reefs on Mille Lacs, right along with the muskies)

Nels

[RK]

Hiya -

Well...everyone knows that muskies are voracious eating machines that eat everything in sight, so I'm not sure why anyone would even try fishing for anything else in a lake that has muskies. Although I have heard they only eat bass once they've eaten all the walleyes, so maybe...

Bass behavior in the presence of large predators does kind of fascinate me and has since I was a kid. It was something I noticed pretty early on because the stuff I was reading in magazines didn't match what I was seeing on the lake my cabin is on. (Although in that case it was and is pike not muskies - more on that in a minute.)

I think other predators can change their location and behavior sometimes. I fish one lake where walleyes seem to push bass deeper into the weeds at times when the walleyes really move into the weeds, and you don't really think of walleyes as being a bass predator. I think some of it has to do with fear of predation certainly. Fish don't know how big they are, and they're wired to be cautious of predators. It can change their location, or temporarily change their behavior. A good bite will die off until you catch a pike, then start up again, for example.

I have noticed it more with pike than with muskies though. There's a point on the lake my cabin's on that is a phenomenal bass spot. Usually, and not surprisingly, the tip of the point is the spot on the spot - unless the pike are really snarling. If I pull up there and start catching pike, I rarely catch bass right on the tip. But if I slide off to the sides - the 'shoulders' of the point so to speak - or up onto the point and deeper into the weeds, the bass will be there and be catchable. It was this point that first got me thinking about this years and years ago.

That change in location could be because it's a predator they're naturally cautious of, or it could be simple competition. On the weed edge perhaps pike can out-compete bass, but deeper in the weeds, bass have an advantage in terms of feeding effectively. That phenomenon - pike pushing bass either off the edge and deeper into the weeds or on to more 'secondary' spots is something I've seen over and over on lakes with loads of pike, regardless of how big or small the pike are. The same seems to hold at times with muskie lakes. I know on a couple muskie lakes I bass fish, the bass do tend to be more flats oriented than edge oriented. You can fish a weedline and not do much, but crush them up on the flat pitching to clumps of cabbage, for example.

On some lakes too it's just a matter of habitat. I think on Leech the bass are shallow because that's the best habitat available to them. The sparse weedbeds on Leech just aren't as appealing as the rushes and rice. On other lakes it may be similar. They go where the environment is most advantageous, and that is a combination of food and security.

But I don't think muskies or pike totally drive bass off. I've caught lots of bass on muskie lures fishing muskie areas, and have actually had a swarm of smallies follow in a hooked muskie on both Mille Lacs and Lake of the Woods. The do share the same environment, but their presence can affect each other's behavior. But usually on a fairly small scale as near as I can tell.

So that's a few thoughts on the subject...

RK

[thatoneguy]

I was going to post pretty much what RK said about Leech. Bass go where there is cover, shade, and forage. On Leech, that's rice, pads, pencil reeds...all shallow stuff.

[TurnUpTheFishing]

I was mostly referring to Forest and Bald. Both lakes have a great dock and shallow water bite, but I seem to really struggle deeper on those bodies of water.

murkier water, shallower weeds, shallower bass.

[gritsnham]

Gotta agree with what RK and SproGuy said it really depends on that lakes habitats.

Tonka and Waconia both have great deep weed edges so catching deep bass is not a problem even with all the toothy critters around while the leech example is the opposite.

I have also noticed a difference in chasing like spro guy said. It seems that lakes devoid of pike just always have a great crankbait bite not that moving baits dont work on lakes with pike or musky but something I have certainly noticed.

[Ray Esboldt]

I am with RK on the walleye observation and largemouth. If I pull up on a spot and stick a walleye on a jig worm or a crank, I have concerns whether the bass will be there. If I catch a second and a third, you're dealing with aggressive walleyes. But that's OK because I am half way to a limit and trying to catch 4, 5, and 6 (is the limit 6 walleyes in MN?)

If I pull up and muskie chases a bait I pull the trolling motor and add another pound of disdain to my muskie bucket.

Walleyes in my book are just as capable as muskies in relocating largemouth.