2 gardening questions

[Whisker Trout Slayer]

The first question is with Zuchinni. We have one mound with 4 seeds or plants that was doing really great and was dang near waist high even with the high temps and humidity. It is in the sun from about 1pm to sunset. Each day some of the leaves would wilt up a little and I water it about every other day. The leaves then in the morning would look fine and normal. Well just last week I noticed one of the plants was turning yellow and looked like it was going to die. We did get 2 nice sized zuchinni off the plant so far and there are 2 little ones growing now. Yesterday more of the plant looks like it is starting to die off. Is it possible to over water it, or is it due to lack of water? It doesn't appear to be any bugs eating the leaves or anything.

The second question is with tomatoes. How close do you plant the plants in the spring? How close is too close? I have them about 16 inches apart. The plants are HUGE, about chin high and very bushy. There are a lot of tomatoes on there about golf ball to tennis ball size and are all green. My wife thinks I planted the plants too close together as the tomatoes are not turning red. I red on a gardening site that the plants with the drought type weather are in survival mode and not in the mode to turn the tomatoes red right now. I water the whole garden every other day. Any other pointers to get them to turn red or just wait it out as I think it is early also. I do not remember what type of tomato that they are, we had 4 plants of 2 types.

Thanks

[flipper]

My opinion is that your tomato plants are too close together.

As far as ripening, it just takes time. It takes a minimum of 45 days for a tomato to be ready to pick after it has been set. We all get impatient but once they start ripening you will most likely be overloaded.

[skunk-ape]

Several species of plants "wilt" during the heat of the day as a defense mechanism to conserve moisture. I believe zuchini is one of them. Plants with large leaves especially seem to do this and it is perfectly normal. My guess is that you are overwatering.

I wouldn't give more than two deep waterings a week even in the heat we're having.

[pushbutton]

What type of soil do you have? Agree with the Skunk Ape that if it is heavier you could be overwatering. Might also want to look at the base of the plant to see if some type of borer is making its home in the stem. Personally am having a mold problem on the fruits with mine, high humidity coupled with not enough light I suspect. As far as the tomatoes, I planted them "too close" also(11 per 3 1/2 x 9 raised beds), but that should not really affect ripening that much. Could try adding some phosphorus to aid in the fruiting. Wide variability depending upon the variety, and as Flipper mentioned, it will just be a matter of time and you will have more than you will need. You already have them at that is the most important part....we still have a couple months left to ripen them! Well, unless your Harvey

[nofishfisherman]

We have our plants planted further apart with TONS of green fruit on them. It just takes time to ripen and depending on the type it may take longer then others.

[Dotch]

You'll get lots of good advice from others here but on the zucchini, my first suggestion would be to check down on the stem towards the base of the plant to see if you have any frass (insect larva excrement) coming out of it. Pushbutton mentioned it and I have some buttercup & Turk's turban squash with squash vine borer. They will sometimes pick on zucchini. Unfortunately if this is the case, there's not a lot that can be done about it usually. Overwatering could be an issue especially if you have some heavier soils. If the plants get too much water they may not have much of a root system making them unable to keep up during the heat of the day. Overwatering is also going to make root rots and other fungal and/or bacterial issues more likely, particularly with all the heat you've been having in IA.

There are some tomato gurus on here so take what I say with a grain of salt. I like tomatoes, I grow them but they are not my main focus (he said, after planting 22 plants many of which were headed to the dumpster prior to his checking into the assylum) On the tomatoes I'm as guilty as the next guy when it comes to planting them too close together. I planted them about 3' apart this year and as the vines are progressing my impression is they are too close. As far as that having an impact on their ripening, I doubt it. I'm more concerned about the leaves getting enough air movement through the canopy to get them dried out so we don't get fungal leaf diseases going. One thing about the year thus far is we have had a lot of mineralization of nitrogen from the organic matter in the soil. Since we've had some rainfall, the plants here have expanded rapidly and like yours, do have a fair amount of tomatoes being set. As has been pointed out, they take time.

[KEN W]

As for the zuchinni.....watering every other day is way to much.I try to water and inch once a week.If you are using a sprinkler.....get a rain guage and get 1 inch a week on them.Squash always seem to wilt under a hot sun.they recover overnite.

tomatoes.....do you have them in cages?Or are they allowed to sprawl all over?If in cages.....16 inches apart isn't to close.Makes a difference what variety they are.Determinate or indeterminate.If they are chin high.....they are most likely indeterminate and you need to pick off some or all of the suckers.

They grow in the V-notch where the leaves are attached to the stem.That's why they look so bushy.Every sucker is basically another tomato plant.They will continue to grow until you pinch out the leaders or frost kills them.

Again....watering every other day is to much water.You could end up having blossom end rot.Put a mulch around the base of the plants....straw or grass clippings work well for this.By doing that you will stabalize the moisture and should only have to water once a week.

I used to use cages.....But have switched to the Florida Weave system.Works great.

[Dotch]

I used to use cages.....But have switched to the Florida Weave system.Works great.

I looked up some info about this but like anything else there is always more than one way to skin a cat. How have you gone about it and what kind of a time and material investment are we talking here?

[flipper]

One of the great things about gardening is that there are so many ways of doing things. I space my plants very far apart, provide support in the form of woven wire, and let them go nutz. My better plants will produce over 100 lbs of tomatoes. I can see advantages to other methods also.

From the reading I've done, the florida weave is more suitable for determinate varieties. I have a friend in Louisiana who grows tomatoes commercially and he uses something very similar to that.

[KEN W]

You really don't need the Florida Weave for determinate plants.They don't get tall enough to need the support.

Put in a 5 foot post at the end.....then 2 plants then put in a another post.2 more plants and another post.Until you get to the end.Using garden twine or string every foot or so make your weave to the next post.It really does support the plants well.

You have to pinch out most of the suckers or the plant will get to big around.

Plant the plants laying on their side while picking off all the leaves up to the top.The first cluster of fruit will be at ground level instead of a foot off the ground.Mulch when you start getting a lot of fruit so you don't get end rot.

[Down Deep]

I planted my tomatoes 3' apart and they are in tomato cages. Right now they are about six feet tall and have grown out the tops of the cages. They are full of large tomatoes. In the Duluth area August is the harvest season. I have already pick a couple quarts off of the grape plants.

[Whisker Trout Slayer]

I am thinking a watered too much, but then again the bug thing sounds good also but didn't see any excretement. I looked at the base of the plants, smae with another type of squash we have, forgot name and both look like it is rotting or dead. I will let them be and see what comes of them. It sounds like tonight we are finally gonna get some rain.

The soils type I got is about a 16 inches of nice black dirt and then it is coarse sand down at least 4 feet.

[eurolarva]

Take one of the stems that is rotting. Cut it at the base of the plant then go up the stem with a fillet knife. If you find a big grub worm in the stem you have Squash Vine Borer (SVB). If you have that you might try replanting from seed. The season for the SVB is over in a week or two. If you see an insect that looks like a wasp or moth that is red that is the insect. I have it here and just planted another crop. Could have another two months before a frost so might still get some zucchini in the fall

[Whisker Trout Slayer]

I was just going to ask that, "If it was worth a shot at planting new zucchini?"

[pushbutton]

If you really like zucchini it wouldn't hurt to try. You won't get a whole lot, but would still get some. I planted some about 5 weeks ago and am just starting to pick....was heating unit optimum though. If you didn't already, maybe try a hybrid that has some disease resistance ...in case it was some virus thingy that messing with your squash.

[Dotch]

They might make it if we continue to have a warm end to the summer and a warm fall. May have to baby them along a little and cover them in case of a frost. One other thing to keep an eye on would be striped & spotted cucumber beetle when establishing them. We are seeing lots of spotteds out in the fields right now and in our own garden the stripeds have been an absolute pain. They can vector bacterial blight in addition to quickly killing tender young seedlings if not protected with a floating ground cover or insecticide. Is it possible bacterial blight caused the demise of your first zucchini? I doubt it as you didn't mention any feeding by them and it hits cukes and melons hardest usually. You never know. They messed up a couple small squash plants here pretty well earlier on and they've had a tough time growing out of it. All I know is I'm getting tired of treating for cucumber beetles. They've now taken to chewing the skin on the cucumbers on the vine if I'm not on my game scouting & picking. On a brighter note, when spraying last nite in the squash and pumpkins, I nailed a squash vine borer moth. Go ahead punk, make my day...

http://www.extension.umn.edu/yardandgarden/YGLNews/YGLN-June0105.html

[eurolarva]

I have always struggled with cukes. Even when I got them to grow they tasted funny. Went to the farmers market Wednesday ( I know cheating) and got a bag of pickling cukes for two bucks and was enough to fill 3 qt jars.

[Dotch]

Talking to a couple entomologists I know yesterday and they're both convinced we have striped cucumber beetles overwintering here in So. MN, perhaps as far north as the TC. The warm winter made their survival that much easier and the ensuing warm summer has really kicked them in gear. Cukes are just starting to come into their own here and they have been very good flavored. Just not enough to do much with other than eat them raw, which is great 'cause I love 'em that way. I'm too lazy to can and admire anyone like yourself who puts themselves through the bother to make pickles.

[Whisker Trout Slayer]

I have come to conclusion that I over watered. I did not water the garden for a week and watched the Zucchini and squash plants. The parts that are still alive were still growing. There are flowers on both plants and the squash plant has about 3 or 4 squash on them. The zucchini plant has about 4 or 5 flowers on it so hopefully they will produce some zucchini.

I was wondering about not to plant them in mounds next year as IMO the mound would dry out being it is elevated. I guess the question would be is why do they want you to plant zucchini, squash and cucumbers in mounds?