Running electrical wire

[CigarGuy]

I need to run about 75 to 100 feet of wire to a power box at the lake shore. Part will be though woods. I'm not too experienced at this type of thing. Only need to power a battery charger and lights, maybe a skilsaw, if I do some work. Thanks....

What type of wire do I use?

How deep do I bury it?

What if I can't bury it?

Can I tie into a (g/f) outlet on my deck?

What type of box do I use?

Anything else I should know? I will cut power to the outlet when I run the wire:)

[SkunkedAgain]

The type of wire that you need depends on whether you bury it or not. They make wire that is specifically for running in the ground. If there is ever the remote possibility of someone putting a shovel in the ground where you run the wire, I recommend putting it in a conduit. That said, when we ran power down to a box at my lake place, we ran it on the underside of the stairs so we didn't have to worry about the underground. In that case you can just run a standard NM (non-metalic) wire to the outlet.

You can run the power from an outlet on your deck. Just make sure that you aren't overloading a circuit. What else is that deck outlet connected to?

For that matter, if you are installing a new circuit you can just go with a 15amp and run 14-2 wire to the dock outlet. If you are tying into an existing circuit (such as the deck outlet), you need to verify whether the circuit is a 15amp or 20amp. You don't want to run 14 gauge wire on a 20amp circuit! That requires 12 gauge wire.

As for the outlet box, use an outdoor rated box. They have protections for wet conditions. I'd also recommend using a GFCI outlet (more expensive) but you'll likely have wet hands when plugging things in or be doing it in the rain. For that matter, you might even make sure that the circuit breaker is an arc-fault type. Again, they are more expensive but in my mind you are spending an extra $15-$20 to make sure that your kid/grandkid or spouse don't get electrocuted!

[JohnMickish]

Do not use 14 gage wire to run 100'. Your voltage drop will be to much and if you are running any type of motor down there it will probably have a shorter life because of it.

You will need to bury the wire 18". I do not have my code book with me right now, but if you do run direct bury romex wire (NMB) you can burry it shallower but it has to be connected to a GFCI at the house. (I do not deal with this sort of thing very often so the chart has left my active memory and now entered the area of needing to look at it instead of being able to quote it) You will need to use 10 gage wire due to the voltage drop. You need to stay under 3% voltage drop, and at 15 amps this is what an online Volt Drop calculator came up with.

1 conductors per phase utilizing a #10 Copper conductor will limit the voltage drop to 2.63% or less when supplying 15.0 amps for 100 feet on a 120 volt system.

For Engineering Information Only:

30.0 Amps Rated ampacity of selected conductor

1.1417 Ohms Resistance (Ohms per 1000 feet)

0.05 Ohms Reactance (Ohms per 1000 feet)

3.5999999999999996 volts maximum allowable voltage drop at 3%

3.148. Actual voltage drop loss at 2.63% for the circuit

0.9 Power Factor

[CigarGuy]

Thanks guys. I read somewhere that is you have a run of over 100ft you need to use....thought it said for an outlet run 12/3 instead of 14/3, UF-B, outdoor wire. I'm a total greenhorn at this, so correct me if I'm wrong and exactly what name and gauge wire should I get? I'm going up next wknd and I'll measure the distance exactly. Do I have to be careful or look out for different gauge wire in the box I tie into?

[jmd1]

Not sure what the code reads but it might be a good idea to put a disconnect box at the dock also, so you can pull the dc there and not worry about a shock if you were working on something or if for some reason you had to worry about high water. this way you know that the power is off if you are repairing the outlet or adding something.

[upnorth]

A few years back we ran a line to the garage and I needed to run wire that could be buried(can't remember the name) and I had to bury it 24 inches down. But I did pull a permit for it so had to meet code.

[JohnMickish]

Thanks guys. I read somewhere that is you have a run of over 100ft you need to use....thought it said for an outlet run 12/3 instead of 14/3, UF-B, outdoor wire. I'm a total greenhorn at this, so correct me if I'm wrong and exactly what name and gauge wire should I get? I'm going up next wknd and I'll measure the distance exactly. Do I have to be careful or look out for different gauge wire in the box I tie into?

If you are really that green at it maybe you shouldn't be doing it. I'm not saying that to be a jerk, I'm saying that because water and electricity don't mix. One "small" mistake and someone could very easily end up dead.

[ncesi]

I need to run about 75 to 100 feet of wire to a power box at the lake shore. Part will be though woods. I'm not too experienced at this type of thing. Only need to power a battery charger and lights, maybe a skilsaw, if I do some work. Thanks....

What type of wire do I use?

How deep do I bury it?

What if I can't bury it?

Can I tie into a (g/f) outlet on my deck?

What type of box do I use?

Anything else I should know? I will cut power to the outlet when I run the wire:) [

For that Distance I would use 10-2 UF wire. If it is an 110 volt circuit one can bury it shallower than one thinks but the codes in Minnesota says 24" for most.

One could tie into the deck outlet but I would prefer to run it straight to the service panel.

If you cannot bury it the codes state you can consider it burried if one puts 2" of concrete on top of the wire. One could also install it in Rigid conduit.

Once at the lake use a weatherproof Bell box and in use cover for the receptacle, remembering that the outlet needs to be GFCI protected so if you tie into the deck outlet and hook the wires to the load side of the GFI outlet on the deck you will be protected. If you go back to the panel you need a GFI outlet at the lake or a GFI Breaker at the panel.

Common sence would say to put at least a 12-2 installed in PVC conduit buried 12" or deeper to a weatherproof box with a GFI outlet and in use cover to the lake. If there are places you cannot bury it do the best you can. Use a plow type of ditch witch that can be rented and you should have few issues even in the woods. It may end up a bit shllower to go over roots but get it as deeep as you can.

According to the codes in Minnesota if it feeds a dock you need a disconnect switch to remove power from the outlet to assure that one does not get shocked when plugging in the boat when the boat is along side the dock in the water.

As an Electrical Contractor we have to follow these rules however there are many docks out there that simply have the proper size wire run down to the dock area, burried as deep as possible, GFI protected, with an in use cover that works properly and is safe.

Use common sence and follow the basic rules and you will be fine

Where are you located? One could find a good contractor to help him out?!!

This is what we do for a living and this knowledge if why we charge what we do.

A job of this type would run around $500.00 to $1000.00 complete, and the parts, and ditch witch rental are about 2/3 of the cost, so what is your time worth. I as a professional can do the job in about 1/3 of the time a basic homeowner can.

I am not trying to be mean or disrespectful just truthful. After being in construction for over 30+ years there are still somethings that I leave to the pros.

[SkunkedAgain]

Thanks for pointing out my gaffe on using the 14 gauge wire for that long of a run! CigarGuy, as for the -2 or -3 after the wire, that is referring to whether or not there is a red traveler wire needed. If you only need a regular black (hot) and white (neutral) wire, get the 10-2 copper. If you need the red (traveler) wire then get 10-3 if it's available.

CigarGuy, I'll be boating past your new place on my way into Black Bay on Friday. If I see you running wire this weekend I'll stop by!

[CigarGuy]

We close this Friday. We will be up all weekend. I'll be digging the trench through the woods, hopefully, when I get down toward the water I'll be able to get around the rock somehow! Maybe I'll start by the shoreline and work my way up. Whatever route, it's going to be a bugger! Are the ticks bad?

[Tom7227]

After reading another thread I was wondering if you thought about using a solar panel at the dock instead of the wire. I have a panel that cost me about $140 at Northern and it pumps up the battery I use for the electric boat lift as well as the boat starting battery. It works very well for me. You may be able to avoid a lot of work and spend around the same amount as you would on the wire and things.

[SkunkedAgain]

CigarGuy - I sent you a PM

[CigarGuy]

I'm running 4 batteries, two trolling motor batteries and 2 other-probably just need to maintain, starting and depth finder batteries. I'll do some research on solar.

[CigarGuy]

CigarGuy - I sent you a PM

returned one!

[dewey1]

U.F. is the direct bury wire. The wire will need to be buried 24" deep unless protected by a gfi on the line(cabin end)side, then it can be 12". I would not advise gfi protection on the line side of the circuit though, due to the length of the run and the loads you my encounter. This could lead to nuisance tripping of the gfi at the cabin, especially if you plug an extension cord in at the lake. Run the circuit either off of the line side of your porch gfi, or directly to the panel, then install your gfi at the dock. A bell box with an in-use cover will meet code any more. If the box is not mounted on a building structure, it must be a heavy duty type box. They sell them at the depot, lowes, or meanards. They come with the gfi in them. About $20. AFCI protection is not required, and expensive. #10 awg is a must with the voltage drop if your on a 20a circuit. 12 will work on a 15a. If the wire is in pvc conduit, it will need to be 18" deep. You will not need uf wire if installed in conduit. Single conductor 10 thhn, or nm will work. Conduit is your best bet. Critters love to chew on direct bury wire. The lower price of the wire will offset the price of the pvc. Do it once and do it right!

[CigarGuy]

Thanks for the suggestions, have a little more info. To the box, I want to run it to is about 130' run. Didn't look, but think it must be 15a, but what if 20a. There is a zero percent chance of me burring the wire all the way to the lake shore. I will be able to bury maybe 70%, a inch or three. The area I will run it through will have no traffic, except the deer I saw walk by last wknd. It's going down a pretty good hill, through woods and rock. Do I use pcv or metal conduit? What's the easiest way to fish it through the pipe? What is the exact name of the wire I should buy? I'm at least going to do the grunt work and maybe hire out the finish work. Any other suggestions you great folks can think of? Thanks..... What about running it above ground?

[JohnMickish]

If there is zero percent chance that it will be burried then your options are severly limited. My advice is to get a quote from a contractor and see how bad you really want electricity down there. I am guessing there is a reason that it's already not installed.

As mentioned above, a solar panel and a few batteries will probably be the best route for you.

[dewey1]

Overhead?

[half-dutch]

Really sounds like what you need is actually an extension cord. Something you just plug in on one end when you need the juice on the other. Any good heavy duty exterior one would work. Getting enough length would be the issue and ready made they can run into some dollars, but they also last for decades if you bring them in when not in use. You wind it up when not in use and unwind it when you need it, prety much just like a garden hose. You are looking at some sort of permanent wiring solution and maybe you don't need to.

[upnorth]

The extension cord is a pretty good idea. Might be a lot easier. Could go as far as terminating the end by the dock into an out door box or something of that nature.

[CigarGuy]

Overhead?

Like when the power company runs power to your house-"pole to pole". I want something more permanent than an extension cord. I have the wire, now just have to do the labor! I'm up here now, just trying to get the ambition to go out and do it.

[upnorth]

To do it right you will need to pull a permit and they are going to want it buried 24 inches(pretty sure) less than that if I remember it needs to be encased in something pretty darn durable. If I remember right it has to be at the very least shovel proof.

[JohnMickish]

Not to be a downer here, but the rules that are associated with this kind of work are there for a reason. If something goes wrong in the future and someone gets electrocuted guess who is at fault. If your going to do it, do it right.

[SkunkedAgain]

CigarGuy - PM sent

[CigarGuy]

Andy, Back at ya!

I didn't do anything this wknd, It snowed pretty much all Saturday. I'm going to re-think my plan of action. Going to have some steps built in the next year or so and I'll get everything done at the same time-maybe:).