Shingles

[8-Ball]

Hi Fellas- Putting new roof on the house soon. Can someone familiar w/roofing give me a reccomendation on shingles? Lots of different brands out there, so I want to narrow it down. Have been told Timberline by some.. any others care to weigh in? Thx, 8-Ball.

[chad austin]

All of the shingle manufactures recently stepped up with their warranty's BUT GAF is the only company that actually did the research and development to make their Timberline shingles worthy of a lifetime shingle. Also look for a certified contractor to do the install and make sure they use at least 4 qualifying products to ensure that the warranty can be purchased IE shingles, ridge cap, ice and water and felt.

These are not the only qualifying products, just an example. Remember when you are picking a contractor, if they don't talk about job prep,job clean up, licensing, warranties, ECT then they probably aren't doing it.

[8-Ball]

Chad- is the warranty on the shingles different if I do it myself?

[K_Josh87]

8 ball, short answer, yes when compared to a certified roofer... And Yes, Certified roofers are a good choice, however, they are certified by a company and will sell that companies shingle, and most of the time, only that companies shingle, which they will get a discounted price, and typically a premium install price, BUT it typically extends the warranty, and ups the wind rating i believe in most cases, as well as sometimes includes LABOR in the warranty, rather than just the materials. I'm not certified, I would put our roofs against any certified roofers roof. A roof is not something to cheap out on, its typically not a fun or cheap thing to do, and its the number 1 protector of everything below it. I have had very good luck with the Owens Corning Duration shingles, and this is typically all I will install. If a homeowner wants to do there own shopping and save a 100 bucks on a cheaper shingle, I do not stand behind it. Sythetic Felt is a great choice, does not rip or tear nearly as easy while walking the roof, and also doesn't bubble up with dew or rain, which can create issues when tarpaper does this. We also install color matched valley tin, as well as in most cases remove turtle vents, close in the holes and cut in a high quality ridge vent. There are a lot of options out there for ridge vent, I prefer omni vent as it does not have a mesh filter to plug up with dirt and reduce its effectiveness, I once heard a claim of this allowing snow to pass through in the winter, however, we have put this on a lot of roofs without an issue. Make sure whomever you hire has some brains, and experience with other things other than roofing, there is a lot more to a roof than just tearing off your shingles and laying new down, the decking needs to be in good shape, VENTILATION is KEY, Also, having some experience to be able to identify issues and resolve them, not just cover then up. I would be very leery of someone who can come in and tear it off and replace it in a 6-8 hour day... its hard to do some good QC and get things fixed up right if needed in that amount of time.

There are other good shingles out there other than the O and C, i have also heard good things of GAF.

I would stay away from Certainteed, Not that the Landmark line doesn't seem to have its issues worked out, they are not as consistant out of the package, and most contractors I know have been burned by their products somewhere along the line.

I would also steer clear of CRC, or ANY three tab shingle.

I am sure others have experience to share as well, and this is mine, so take it just as that, research which companies are most likely to take care of you, and or are somewhat local, I'd deal with a lumber yard over a box store any day, as they will actually be there to help you if you have an issue, and they actually know what they are talking about, or if they don't the research the real answers.

Just my

Good luck!

[CigarGuy]

I drive by the Certainteed plant regularly and truckloads of Landmark shingles are leaving the plant. There loading area holds over twenty trucks in the lot and everytime I drive by it's full and more trucks are out by the street waiting to get in. If your on the road a lot, pay attention to what shingles you see on the trailers and more often than not they are Certainteed Landmark shingles. There selling, just not too well in this market. With that being said, a good friend works for one of the largest distributors in the country and in this area the order of sales are Timberlines, Duration and IKO's.

[K_Josh87]

There are A LOT of certainteeds sold around here yet... most yards carry them on hand, and I do not know why for sure, but I believe they typically run good winter buys on them for the yards, its all about the almighty dollar... generally speaking new home developers don't really care to much about the overall quality, they want a decent product at the best price, and certainteeds are just that, decent, and typically a bit cheaper, however, IMO there are better shingles on the market, and better companies standing behind them. Strictly an opinion based on my experience.

[chad austin]

8 ball, short answer, yes when compared to a certified roofer...

Josh, this is not directed at you; I’m just trying to clear the air on some of the topics you mention.

I will only speak for my company on this, we are a certified company for GAF and working on becoming Master Elite and I can tell you that we sell a two different brands of shingles BUT GAF is our flagship product because they truly stand behind their warranty. They are also backed by Good Housekeeping which means that if GAF were to have a class action lawsuit or just plain went out of business they (Good Housekeeping) would honor all warranties as GAF would have and for the term of the warranty. The wind rating does go up; the prorated portion of the warranty goes from prorating at 5 years to prorating at 50. All materials, labor, dumpster, fasteners and accessories are ALL included. As far as the premium install price goes, we are a for-profit business and are very good at what we do, I will never apologize for the fact that I make good money for the services that we provide. Every spring we negotiate our pricing with our suppliers as any other company does with their suppliers; it’s just good business to do so. Our volume allows us to get better pricing than the ‘Pete in the pickup’ companies that are out there. The problem with some of the manufactures is if you want to be a certified contractor, all you need to do is go online and answer a few questions and wall-a, your now certified. We take continuing education through the CARE classes, need to have a certain number of warranties filed for the year and we also have our territory manager in our office 3-4 times a year to keep our guys up to date with current industry changes/happenings. We are not a certified installer with the other brand of shingles we sell as their program is the go online deal and there is nothing special about it, like I said anyone can do it.

As far as not standing behind a roof that the homeowner ordered cheaper shingles on, you do have to stand behind for the minimum state requirement. I don’t recall what it is, 2 years I think. We just give a 5 year on all of our work. Which is why we use only a two different manufactures, think about it, you believe in OC which is why you install them; how is that any different than a certified contractor believing in the shingles they took the time/money to invest themselves with the manufactures program, why wouldn’t you push them. I truly believe in the products that I sell and that allows me to be very genuine in talking with the homeowner. Have you ever tried to sell something you didn’t believe in? Think sham-wow infomercial.

We can typically tear-off and re-roof a house in 6-8 hours and when we leave everything is done right and the roofing system is complete. It is all about how you set up the job, meeting with the homeowner to inspect the attic and getting on the roof to do a visual inspection then documenting any concerns/problem areas, pulling permits and scheduling the Ice & Water/final inspection, so yeah, the whole project is more like 10-15 hours per job with some of that being office time.

Three tab shingles have their place in the roofing world, not the best option but they do function.

Just another tid-bit, a Master Elite company can offer a Golden Pledge warranty in which a GAF rep will come out and inspect the work of said company and if their inspection comes up with a problem they will let the company know about it and give said company a set amount of days to remedy the issue and GAF will come out to re-inspect the property after the issues are addressed.

Sorry for the rant, just wanted to clarify.

Chad Austin

[8-Ball]

Josh and Chad- thanks for all the advice/info. A friend who has done several roofs, is helping me do ours. I have looked at, and read about, alot of different shingles out there. For my money/quality/warranty, I think we are going to use Timberline HD shingles. Doing it myself will pocket us some much needed extra $ right now, and my buddy knows what hes doing on a roof. So, as I understand it, the warranty will not be the same if I install the shingles/vs. a certified contractor? Is that true?

[chad austin]

That is true. With the GAF shingles you will get the standard wind warranty and the manufactures warranty will start to prorate after 5 years and that is for the shingles only, you will be responsible for the underlayments, accessories and disposal.

[K_Josh87]

Chad, I hope i did not offend you as that was not the intent, And as stated, I know there are other good and great shingles out there. I have heard great things about GAFs, I personally have not used them.

And i'm 100% with you on having to make some money for the work you do! If your not making forward progress, you may as well be sitting at home is my opinion!

It may have seamed as a rant against cert. roofers, however it was not, I extremly dislike however the guys in our area whom have a business doing other exterior updates, and then decide to take advantage of another portion of it, and the only part of the job they have to do with it stopping by, measuring it, and parking a dump trailer out front while a subbed crew working for cash comes in and does it...

There a roofers I myself would hire, and there are ones I wouldn't trust to shingle a dog house, the point is more so to do your research and to know who's doing the project, and to know they will be there for you, and that they know the product and proper practices. If our companies focus was to do more roofing, we would certify with a good company, however, that is not our main focus, and even though we get into several roofs a year, certifying isn't a real benefit for us.

As for the original poster, use good products for the whole project, and use good practices, and it will work out fine. Good luck and enjoy the weather we have to get it done now!

Josh

[8-Ball]

Well the plan is to get this done the weekend of 4/21. Hopefully weather will co-operate.. I will post how it all worked out. Thanks for all the info/guidance guys.

[chad austin]

Josh, No offence taken. I am just very passionate about what I do, the fact that I truly enjoy helping homeowners protect what will probably be the biggest investment of their life, their home.

8-Ball, Good luck with your project and if you have any questions along the way, post them here and I will try to help.

[8-Ball]

Thanks Chad. I appreciate that, and will do! 8-Ball.

[crothmeier]

You'll like the Timberline. We've been using alot of Malarkey shingles lately, and they are going on my house. I can get a better wind warranty with them, and feel the shingle is made better than the competitors, but its still a 30 year laminate.

[bobbymalone]

We've been using alot of Malarkey shingles lately

What an unfortunate name. Pretty sure the old shingles on my house were malarkey, but I don't who made them.

[8-Ball]

Yeah- thats a poor choice of title for any product, if you ask me!

[dougger222]

I've put the "new" 217 pound per square GAF/ELK Timberline shingle down and they were lousy. We put them on a 50sq garage (ya, I know) and in the middle of Winter they cut like a good quality laminate does in the Summer time.

They are thinner than the competition and to cut down weight they took the granuals out of the section above the nailing line.

They will crack by year 12.

They will blow off at 70 mph wind.

There are several much better choices out there for a standard laminate shingle. Some weigh as much as 240 pounds per square and cost the same.

We do mostly Landmarks but would recommend Duration, Heritage, Biltmore, Atlas, Malarky, and XT30 before Timerbline.

[dougger222]

Also,

If you really want to research what's the best laminate shingle to buy just do a search online on roofing forums. You'll find outstanding roofing pro's who put Timberline on the bottom of the list and CT Lanmdark at the top.

One roofer does 20 roofs a week year round and only puts on Landmarks.

[muchowja]

I wont go so far as Dougger, but I believe he has a point in the weight and thickness of a TL shingle. It just isn't there. I do like the Certainteed and Owens Corning shingles better.

[K_Josh87]

Chad, we are in that same boat! I hate it when things are cheaped out on, especially roofs, its the number 1 things that protects everything else below it IMO. We don't do tons of them, mostly for customers we are doing other work for, but i have about 30 or so out there from the past few years, and I have yet to be called back on any of them for any reason, last year we had some good storms come through a town I had done several roofs in and I went out following the storms and checked each one of the roofs I had done, with zero damage to any of them. Good luck and be safe out there!

[crothmeier]

Despite the Name, take a look at the Malarkey Highlander (30yr), and Legacy(50yr) lines of shingles. They are heavier, and have a wider laminate overlap, which results in a wider reccommended nailing area. the 30yr can have a 110mph wind warranty if their starter and cap is used, and 6 nails per shingle. The 50yr 130mph wind warranty and a class 4 impact rating (highest). the Legacy (50yr) also qualifies for a homeowners insurance discount on most carriers. State farm has these shingles on their corprate building, and im putting them on my house with a nice insurance discount. They also recently pushed their algea warranty up to 20 yrs from 10.

[8-Ball]

Alright, now weve got the "Ford vs. "Chevy" deal (as it relates to shingles) debate going.. A few of you roofing guys are saying dont use the Timberline HD shingles now. So now it raises a level of concern for me, as I value the opinion of you that are in the trenches doing roofing stuff all the time... I have never heard of, or seen, the Landmark shingles that some of you highly recommend. Are certainteed and owens-corning better that TL because they weigh more, or what is it exactly? The TL are rated to 130 mph and have a 30 yr warr. Im confused now.

[8-Ball]

Dougger- I am not familiar w/those brands. Are they at the big box home improvement stores?

[8-Ball]

Croth- where can I take a look at the Legacy shingles?

[K_Josh87]

I cannot speak of the Timberlines as I have not used them. Generally speaking, as an issue that came up in another post, a softer shingle is more flexible and less vulnerable to impact damage IME. The Owens Cornings have done away with the 30 yr shingle, offering only a limited lifetime warrenty shingle, with 110 MPH wind rating, and that goes to 130 with a cert installer I believe, So, that tells me, if nailed correctly, they should hold up to 130 MPH. Stay away from the Certainteeds, and I have not heard of the Malarkeys either... Stick with something you know is good, and somewhat Local, I do not know where the Malarkeys or the GAFs are made, but, if you buy a shingle from across the country, and install it yourself, essentially it has ZERO benefit to the local economy... And I'm not one to be upset about someone wanting to do their own work, but sometimes it doesn't hurt to think about the home front a bit... everyone's out trying to make a living, and to save a buck, including the folks that do this kind of work, or make these products... Once again, do the research, use the product you are comfortable with, you have had great wisdom shared here, truly more than tradesmen should generally share. Take the advice, check out the products, and make your own judgement call...

Good Luck!