Change???? maybe a little.

[Random guy]

More generalization and assumptions.

I have never caught a fisher in a bobcat set and I cannot recall a time I caught an incidental martin and we have been doing this since the 1930’s! I did catch an incidental bobcat in a coyote snare set, if you want to take a gander at this large cat it will be on display in the metro as I caught it two days before cat season and turned it into the warden.

As for the fisher population that is very regional, I was done in three days and yes I used ground sets 220s as seldom do I get decent fisher up the tree; small young ones yes but the nice ones stay on the ground. Actually when I get my fisher tags filled I pull the ground sets and then use only elevated as I will only catch martin then to fill my three martin tags.

So yet another post from you with another random generalization while inciting the trapper is an indiscriminate killer of all animals and is so ignorant he/she will destroy themselves. Of course I like how you always throw in little threats of what will be taken away UNLESS we comply to the dog laws.

9339za, how about your real name for some accountability, easy to fire off these posts from behind a made up username. My real name is posted and I am accountable for my statements, how about you?

[swamptiger]

Quote:

I have yet to hear one bird hunter give a good reason for a 120 day grouse season other than that's the way it's always been. Using the same logic I should be able to set a 220 on the ground also. If this was about compromise then what is giving up 15 days out of a 120 day season but it's not about compromise its about banning trapping

This...

Haven't seen anyone address this yet. No gripes about deer season, but some apparently can't make room in their busy grouse hunting schedule for trapping season.

[Ybone]

When I was getting bobcat tagged I talked with a DNR employee about the lack of fisher in my area and he said the bobcat population has risen and they are hard on fisher. He said they tagged more fisher to the southwest near Osakis even though the habitat is poor but fewer bobcats. So how do you prevent fisher from getting in your bobcat sets? Since the fisher are scarce in my area it wasn't a problem but I don't see any difference between a baited bobcat set and a baited fisher set.

[Random guy]

For fisher I run a small baited 220 cubby tight to the ground and often under tree roots. I also use Martin musk on my fisher sets. For some reason the Bobcats around here will not go close to the martin stink. For cats I go with snares and visual attractants/bait. Fisher seldom fall for or get hung up in the snare trick if the loop is set right where as it is deaadly for yotes and cats.

[swamptiger]

Good ideas Jonny..

Do you use mostly snares for bobcats then?

Sorry - missed the sentence where you said you went with snares and visual attractors..

[Random guy]

Yes as I can run long lines and set them fast, plus I am working yotes at the same time.

[swamptiger]

Quote:

Yes as I can run long lines and set them fast, plus I am working yotes at the same time.

Makes sense - don't need to cart so much stuff around that way either..

[9339za]

This is a statewide issue or at best a zone issue. There are lots of trappers like myself and many others who never have and never will kill a dog because of the methods we choose to use. There are also lots of trappers who never have and never will kill a dog through sheer luck.

Our laws aren't made for those 2 groups of trappers. They are made for the third group who because of careless set selection or bad luck are killing dogs. That's why all laws are made.

[Saw557]

Really 3.5 x 3.5 thats 12.5 sq in. As far as the decline in the fisher population the DNR thinks it may be related to the increase in bobcat so if you take away 220's on the ground (cats don't like to climb) what's going to happen to the fisher population. Doesn't take much more than my 8 th grade education to figure that one out

[9339za]

Many trappers like myself find that footholds are very effective at taking cats and Jonny said he uses snares. Where is the problem?

3 1/2 by 3 1/2 is plenty big enough for a male fisher. The guys that build the marten boxes make the holes less than 2 1/2 to keep the male fishers from killing the female marten. Boxes with those restricted openings would be dog safe and still effective.

Change is coming. We can adapt and continue or hang up our steel and go home and blame it all on those antis that some people like to claim are behind every tree.

[Saw557]

The problem is there is no compromise its take from the trapper. I have my doubts about your box sizes and unless I don't understand something about your marten boxes it makes no sense you said you limit the size so the male fishers don't kill the female Martin well if the Martin is in the box isn't it already dead

As far as 220 and bobcats it's a matter of the three day check law change the law so it applies to snares and leg holds for that matter and you may have something remember it's about comprise right

[Ybone]

He's talking about nesting boxes so the martin can raise their brood without fisher killing them.

[Saw557]

He's talking about nesting boxes so the martin can raise their brood without fisher killing them.

I kinda figured that's what he was talking about but brood boxes and effective cubby boxes are two different things and of not much use for what were trying to talk about

[9339za]

The opening size applies regardless of the intent.

My point was that trappers can continue to safely take fisher and marten on the ground with body grips by reducing the opening size to 3 1/2" or we can elevate our body grips like trappers in other states and provinces. Really the only animal that can't be taken in large numbers off the ground is bobcat and we have more effective means than body grips.

[NORTHCRAZE]

"Doesn't take much more than my 8 th grade education to figure that one out"

Well now I understand why your posts read as they do!

[LOTWSvirgin]

Most of you are talking about the northern part of the state what about the southern part Where its a totally different world of trapping? 220's are my number one set for coons after the water freezes whether its a bucket set or a trail set

[Saw557]

Despite what some may think I have more than an 8th grade education....

There has been way to much bickering and stories of the bogey man and what ifs. How about a little discussion. Here are my ideas...again.That as a trapper and a dog hunter I think are more than reasonable to anyone that is open to compromise remember both sides have to give up something

1)Elevate 220's on public land 4' and restrict openings to 50sq.in.

2)Allow a 3 day check on snares to make up for the loss of 220's on the ground to help bobcat trappers

3)Close grouse season Dec. 15 and delay the opening of Fisher/Martin and Bobcat season until then. Extend Bobcat the number of days it was delayed

Pretty simple and painless for everyone involved. I am sure closing grouse season 2 weeks early wouldn't be real popular but it will affect far fewer hunters than further restrictions to trappers. Everyone has given up something its a COMPROMISE!!!!

Rather than flame my ideas or insult my education I would like to see constructive comments and rational responses why they may or may not work. At the end of the day it isn't going to matter what happens here anyway it's going to be settled in St. Paul and isn't going to make everyone happy anyway.

[Saw557]

Well now I understand why your posts read as they do!

[Todd Caswell]

I personally have NO problem with this, I personally treat this 15 day season much like the firearms deer season, as in " I PREFER TO STAY OUT OF THE WOODS WITH MY DOGS" During your season. This makes complete sence in the northern half of the state for bird hunters and trappers BUT what is a logical and commen sence aproach to the southern part of the state from early Oct.--- to the start of firearms deer season in Nov..???? I would much like to hear a realistic suggestion...

[swamptiger]

Quote:

I personally have NO problem with this, I personally treat this 15 day season much like the firearms deer season, as in " I PREFER TO STAY OUT OF THE WOODS WITH MY DOGS" During your season. This makes complete sence in the northern half of the state for bird hunters and trappers BUT what is a logical and commen sence aproach to the southern part of the state from early Oct.--- to the start of firearms deer season in Nov..???? I would much like to hear a realistic suggestion...

Good question, and I don't have the answer. In my mind, it all really gets down to the use of the 220 for coon. But I'm pretty sure a dog could get their head into a 160 too.. And I'm not much of a coon trapper, so I'd like to see some ideas coming from coon trappers.

[Eric Wettschreck]

I don't have the answer either. I do know that if I'm forced to put my 220s 4 feet off the ground they'll be for sale and my trapping will be over with. Spend time in the prairie and you'll understand this. The best suggestion I can come up with is putting signs at the enterances to WMAs and WPAs saying there are traps in the area. This way everyone knows the risk.

Most, if not all, of this discussion has focused around, what us southerners consider, the northern areas. Yes, Hinckley is up nort to us. Down here in Dixie there are about 17 trees in the county. We don't have Bobcat, Fisher, or Martin. Most of our trapping is Coon, Mink, Skunk, Yotes, and Muskrat in the swampy areas. Most of my trapping is setting 220s in trails between waterways and fields for coon.

With the exception of the dog that met my 220 while the hunter was trespassing on private land I've never heard of a dog meeting a 220 in my area.

Pheasant hunters will never agree to a shortened or changed season. The bird hunters in SW MN WAY outnumber the trappers. Plus, the tourism $$$ generated by pheasant hunters from out of state or other parts of the state is just too big.

[swamptiger]

Quote:

I don't have the answer either. I do know that if I'm forced to put my 220s 4 feet off the ground they'll be for sale and my trapping will be over with. Spend time in the prairie and you'll understand this.

I'm trying to picture a 220 set on a cornstalk, but it doesn't make for a real good visual...

I think they are trying to come up with a blanket statewide solution for two different worlds of trapping..

[swampman]

I will give my opinion and thats all it is, my personal belief is we don't need to be setting baited bodygrips in wma's or wpa's during the pheasnt season, they are a low perecntage set that time of year anyway,and your just asking for trouble.Late winter early spring I see no problem ,nobody else out there. I don't think it is my buisness to tell anybody what to do on private land so somebody else can debate that if they want to.

I think there are reasonable solutions without having a kneejerk raction and having some guy living in the southern or western part of the state having to look for a tree to hang his trap from.

All of our border states with the exeption of north dakota have 220 laws basically the same as ours. North dakota you are restricted to 160's on wma's during hunting season. after no restrictions.

[swampman]

I also wanted to add Eric makes a good point if the laws get to redicuolus I will just quit with the land trapping. I am a water trapper in the fall I run just a small line this time of year for something to do till beaver trapping, but there is 30 coon 15 skunks and 2 possum that won't be eating pheasnt eggs this spring.

[9339za]

What is stopping SMN trappers from switching to dog proofs?

160's do kill dogs. At least 2 full sized dogs have died in 160's in WI this winter. One was an unbaited 160 trail set. It killed a springer.

If MN trappers switch to 160's without tight restrictions on hole size fewer dogs will be killed but dogs will still be killed and the spotlight will stay focused on us. That's not good.