Frost heave on shoreline

[marineman]

I live on a north metro lake and we are having extremely bad shoreline heaving this winter. When this has happened in the past, I could repair it in the spring but this winter the heave is threatening the foundation of my home. My home is only 20 feet from the shore. The heave is now 6 feet from the NE corner of my home. With six to eight weeks of continued ice-covered water, I cannot wait for the lake to open and thus reduce the pressure. I am thinking of digging a trench parallel to the foundation but that could be difficult. I really don't know what to do but I have to do something. Any ideas?

[CAMAN]

Get a bunch of bales of hay and line them up side by side along the length of the house?

[leech~~]

How in the world did you end up with a house 20 feet from the shore edge? I guess I would get a chain saw and do some pick axe work a little every day to try and chip away at the pile as it comes closer. Good luck

[Tom7227]

Find out from your insurance guy if you're covered if things get worse.

Sounds to me as if you are going to need a backhoe or something with some power to it. Is it ice coming in or is the soil actually heaving up? If somehow the soil is being compressed you may need to cut some sort of trench to cut off the pressure on the foundation. It might make sense to call the local watershed district and see what sort of advice, and possibly assistance, they can offer. 15 or 20 years ago Lake Jane was close to eating up houses and I think some government agency stepped in and help but it may have taken a long time to get that going.

Good luck.

[marineman]

The ice is pushing the rock and soil up (about 3 feet) and in toward the house. I talked to an engineer at work this morning and he suggested a trench next to the foundation. Then, put in a water permeable liner. Backfill the trench with river rock - 1" - 3" in diameter. Looks like I've got some work to do!

[SkunkedAgain]

Was this a soils engineer? No disrespect to any engineer, but I've known many of them that think they are experts about everything instead of just their specific field.

I say this because you don't want to dig a trench only to find out that it has no effect or somehow affects any future insurance claims.

[Jameson]

..a trench next to the foundation. Then, put in a water permeable liner. Backfill the trench with river rock - 1" - 3" in diameter....

This sounds like a very bad idea to me. Having spent many a day as a landscaper fixing water getting into basements, don't do the above. Even if it fixes your ice heave problem, which I have doubts it will, it will likely cause you future problems with water around your foundation. If you are bound and determined to go this route try to get it 4 feet from the house.

At the current time my guess is your best options is heavy equipment, backhoes etc. In the future it might help to build a berm near the lake to deflect the ice sheet when it comes a shore.

Got any pics?

[leech~~]

Making a water proof barrier is not going to make one bit of difference once the ice starts taking out your house! Something has to give and it's either the ice our your foundation. Years ago on Mill Lacs the ice took out part of a resort. The only thing they could do was rebuild back further from the shore.

20 feet is not a lot of room to work with building some kind of barrier to stop it!

[marineman]

I'm not worried about what the ice may do to my house - yet. I'm worried about the effect the ice is having on my shoreline now. In the photo below, the rocks used to be at a 45* angle. Now, it's 90*.

In the 2nd photo, I'm standing in my yard and the rocks behind me should be at the same level. The heave has moved the rocks up 3 - 3 1/2 feet. My blue spruce is probably not going to make it.

Final photo shows the corner cinder block on the right. The dark spot in the center of the photo is the latest movement of the earth. It's 5 feet from the corner block to the dark spot. I have a crawl space - no basement so I am not very concerned with water leaking into that space. I do agree that heavy equipment may be my only solution. What a mess. I'm not the only one. Just about every house on the west shore is experiencing the same thing.

[flyfisher03]

Not sure what can be done with it now. But here is some information from the DNR's HSOforum dealing with the issue.

http://files.dnr.state.mn.us/publications/waters/shoreline_alterations_ice_ridges.pdf

and a list of some people you could contact dealing with the situation

http://files.dnr.state.mn.us/waters/area_hydros.pdf

[marineman]

I did leave a message for my county hydrologist but I had not seen the Ice Ridges article. Thanks for the info.

[Tom7227]

Great info from Flyfisher via the DNR HSOforum. It is interesting that they require removal of some material. My quick read the of the DNR piece seems to me to indicate that you can bring in equipment and remove the ridge for up to 200 feet. Obviously you have to try and save as much of the riprap material as possible since that's pricey stuff. That's going to be some big bucks and I'd bet the trees are gonners.

I am curious - does all that material come from close to the existing shore? Does that mean that there is going to be a steeper drop off from shore?

[marineman]

The material you see is all from the shoreline. Three years ago, I spent $2,500.00 to have the old shoreline regraded, new fabric installed and riprap replaced (onsite and new, bigger rocks purchased). It looked great with a gentle grade going down to the water. I'll be starting that process over again. I won't know how bad it is until the ice leaves and the waves have a chance to work on the soil but I'd guess there is a lot of rock to be moved. I'm going to start this weekend - move the smaller rocks back from the heave. Should keep me busy all spring.

[Lip_Ripper Guy]

This exact thing started happening on the west end of Lake Shamineau years ago. There were lots of fix theories, but none worked except a small aeration system. That has 100% stopped any shoreline heaving.

[marineman]

Do you know anything specific about the aeration system used? I'm assuming this is something installed before ice and then runs until the end of ice season, correct? So, you would have open water along the shoreline.

[Lip_Ripper Guy]

Do you know anything specific about the aeration system used? I'm assuming this is something installed before ice and then runs until the end of ice season, correct? So, you would have open water along the shoreline.

Yup...my dad and uncle designed the system about 7 or 8 years ago, and I've helped them install and remove it quite a few times. There are 8 neighbors who are connected.

Basically, there is a large air pump on shore. The air is pumped out across the ground through around a 2 1/2" pipe to a 'T' which is 3' underwater. From there, the air is pumped parallel to shore through smaller (1"?) stainless pipe, with small holes drilled every 16". The ends are capped, so the air forces it's way out of the tiny holes, creating anywhere from 5' of open water, to as much as 30' of open water, depending on temperatures.

They aerate around 1,000' of shoreline with 2 large pumps (each do ~400'), and 1 small one (~100'). Cost for the big pumps is $5/day, not sure on the small one. They run from the end of November (right before ice up) through the beginning of March.

The system right now is extremely simple, but they have done a lot of trial and error (trying to keep cost down). I suspect this will be the last revision they will make.

[CAMAN]

Yup...my dad and uncle designed the system about 7 or 8 years ago, and I've helped them install and remove it quite a few times. There are 8 neighbors who are connected.

Basically, there is a large air pump on shore. The air is pumped out across the ground through around a 2 1/2" pipe to a 'T' which is 3' underwater. From there, the air is pumped parallel to shore through smaller (1"?) stainless pipe, with small holes drilled every 16". The ends are capped, so the air forces it's way out of the tiny holes, creating anywhere from 5' of open water, to as much as 30' of open water, depending on temperatures.

They aerate around 1,000' of shoreline with 2 large pumps (each do ~400'), and 1 small one (~100'). Cost for the big pumps is $5/day, not sure on the small one. They run from the end of November (right before ice up) through the beginning of March.

The system right now is extremely simple, but they have done a lot of trial and error (trying to keep cost down). I suspect this will be the last revision they will make.

That's interesting, how did they figure out it was the lake ice causing the heaving and how to fix/prevent it?

Also I'm impressed with the 1000' of stainless tubing, that stuff ain't cheap! All the neighbors must share in the costs?

[Lip_Ripper Guy]

Do you know anything specific about the aeration system used? I'm assuming this is something installed before ice and then runs until the end of ice season, correct? So, you would have open water along the shoreline.

Marineman-send me a message at [email protected] if you want to chat about the aeration system. I'll put you in contact with my dad who can give better details.

[Lip_Ripper Guy]

Well, it was many years in the making. They fixed the cabin in the late 80's from a big frost heave, and it was fine for many years. Around 2000, the shoreline started heaving up again, and in 2003 the cabin was pretty much completely destroyed, along with several others. 2004 the first aeration system was put in, and overall it has worked great, with several revisions since. The DNR, county, SWCD, Watershed District, lake association were all involved over the years, with all sorts of ideas....none worked. One year we drilled thousands of holes, chainsawed in two directions to create a weak spot, another year a trench, another year frost blankets, straw bales, heater coils, etc.

Neighbors all split the costs, we get together late fall and early spring for a few hours of work, and several hours of beverages. We all much prefer that compared to two or three days of bobcat work, throwing the rip rap down, shoveling sand, raking, planting grass, etc.

[marineman]

Thanks for the info. I do have to deal with this in the future as this year's push moved the shore back about three feet - and, winter isn't over yet! Sounds like your family has come up with a system that works. I'll send you an email when I get home. Thanks again.

[Tom7227]

MarineMan - how about an update? I was thinking about your problem today and I would like to know what you've ended up doing and at least a rough idea on the cost. Any insurance help with it? Tom