More trapping of dogs...

[Todd Caswell]

Quote:

What has really happened is two things. Bird hunters want free range for their dogs so they can run care free. They want to be the most important guy on public land. Heck as stated by bird hunters on many occasions during this debate already, they have $5,000 shotguns and a $10,000 dogs.

Really, man your definatly reading between the lines, now lets think about this if the guy has a 10,000 dollar dog is he looking to let it run free out of control? Or is he concerned with the fact that if my dog gets caught in one of these, he's most likely not getting out? Id'e guess the latter, if i was a bettin man.

As far as not being able to make a living if the 220 has to be put off the ground, well you may have to adapt a bit, happens in all trades, new regulations and laws, I'm an electrician by trade some code changes have helped us some haven't but weve adapted and none of the changes have put us out of bussiness Hunting , fishin and trapping laws are bound to change over time, as well.

The simplest sollution is keep them on the ground but have them in a dog proof box, trappers aren't giving up much and I believe it would eliminate almost all hunting dog related catches.

[Trashguy]

Todd, I am addressing your post a few up. Well said. I really mean that but, do you think that lady up at the cabin walking fluffy for a evening stroll, should have to worry about fluffy getting caught in one of these traps? She doesn't know when/what trapping seasons are going on and if she did, should she have too, she's 90 years old?! She loves her dog as much as one of her kids and I love my dog the same way. I have done a ton of reading the last few days on different forums, including this one and the attitude of some of the trappers is just "fueling the fire" Believe me it has got a big time fire under me right now and I am sure many more! I have forwarded my feelings to everyone in my address book and hopefully they to everyone in their address books and it will spread big time. You know every stupid comment like "keeping our dogs on a 4' leash, staying out of the woods during the trapping season or make sure your dog does not run ahead and get in a bucket trap 50' in front of you, just isn't going to fly. Get real. I am a hunter and used to trap as a kid & understand where the trappers are coming from to a point, but when it involves my dog & myself being able walk down a trail and not having to worry about my puppy dog getting caught in a trap, I will side with my dog forever. All we are asking is to change the way the traps are used, which is elevated, not banning them. But keep up the stupid comments & not willing to compromise and the local "612 club" will push to ban them altogether. By the way I hate "612" terminology but it has been used many times on this forum & I hate it, as I love the woods as much if not more than local residents in Cass County) as I spend 7-8 months in CNF hunting mushrooms and a few grouse. I own a cabin in Cass county, but don't own a $10,000 dog, just a wonderful rescued Springier Spaniel.

None of us want to involve the "antis" that's not what this is about. But have you "Googled" "conibear dog"? in "Google images" Un-real the emotions you will get. Or at least I did. And if you didn't get any emotion, maybe that is the main problem in this discussion and it will end with hopefully the regs being changed.

[Todd Caswell]

Todd, I am addressing your post a few up. Well said. I really mean that but, do you think that lady up at the cabin walking fluffy for a evening stroll, should have to worry about fluffy getting caught in one of these traps? She doesn't know when/what trapping seasons are going on and if she did, should she have too, she's 90 years old?! She loves her dog as much as one of her kids and I love my dog the same way. I have done a ton of reading the last few days on different forums, including this one and the attitude of some of the trappers is just "fueling the fire" Believe me it has got a big time fire under me right now and I am sure many more! I have forwarded my feelings to everyone in my address book and hopefully they to everyone in their address books and it will spread big time. You know every stupid comment like "keeping our dogs on a 4' leash, staying out of the woods during the trapping season or make sure your dog does not run ahead and get in a bucket trap 50' in front of you, just isn't going to fly. Get real. I am a hunter and used to trap as a kid & understand where the trappers are coming from to a point, but when it involves my dog & myself being able walk down a trail and not having to worry about my puppy dog getting caught in a trap, I will side with my dog forever. All we are asking is to change the way the traps are used, which is elevated, not banning them. But keep up the stupid comments & not willing to compromise and the local "612 club" will push to ban them altogether. By the way I hate "612" terminology but it has been used many times on this forum & I hate it, as I love the woods as much if not more than local residents in Cass County) as I spend 7-8 months in CNF hunting mushrooms and a few grouse. I own a cabin in Cass county, but don't own a $10,000 dog, just a wonderful rescued Springier Spaniel.

None of us want to involve the "antis" that's not what this is about. But have you "Googled" "conibear dog"? in "Google images" Un-real the emotions you will get. Or at least I did. And if you didn't get any emotion, maybe that is the main problem in this discussion and it will end with hopefully the regs being changed.

I think you read it wrong,I agree, I'm on your side. What I wrote was

It's not going to be a hunter that really raises a big stink it's going to be, gramma and dead fluffy who has alot of time and money to publicize and fight this.

[Trashguy]

Yea Todd your right. Just too worked up and didn't read correctly. Missed your second post, by having not refreshed my page for a bit too. Now that I have calmed down (for now), I agree with you all the way. The analogy with the little old lady is exactly what is going to happen if there is no compromise of some sort. Even if things change or not, I am buying a small bolt cutters to carry to go along with the strap/rope I already have been carrying.

[Random guy]

Well it has been made very clear that my livelihood, way of live, social status and rights are worth less than a dog.

Makes sense, I most likely am not worth 10k and I don't roll over for anybody.

Let me end this by saying, be careful what ya wish for. When the trappers have been pushed out and gone from one regulation after another I don't want to hear the belly aching about it. And yes I am going to laugh my [PoorWordUsage] off when coyotes start picking off pets around the metro, over populated disease ridden raccoons start death biting Spot on the nose and little Suzy finds the family cat drug up into the oak tree in the backyard and half eaten.

It easy to hate the trapper until you need him.

"There is a good reason why I stayed in the woods for months on end, wild animals made better company than city folk" Found in the nameless journal of the Baysic trapping cabin.

[Trashguy]

Jonny P, Yea who needs all those city people up there. Especially if one runs a guide service.

Hey your quote at the end of your message could be my signature, but I would have added having a dog with me.

[RangerJack]

Dogs get caught in traps, it's always going to happen. Special classes could be offered for 220 users to ensure safety and proper placement to keep away from dogs. Maybe people could get special permits, that way the "dumbies" that cause the problems might not trap anymore. On the other hand, I see no problem with a dog getting killed accidentally by a trap. It's nobody's fault, and this issue is really ticking me off. My neighbors might not let me trap their property anymore because of what they've been seeing on the news. I don't even use 220's! This is getting annoying! They don't realize that a snare 7 inches off the ground with a 6 inch loop will not catch a 100lb lab......................They are starting to question whether or not it is safe for their dogs. There goes my fun.

good luck

[Todd Caswell]

Well it has been made very clear that my livelihood, way of live, social status and rights are worth less than a dog.

Makes sense, I most likely am not worth 10k and I don't roll over for anybody.

Let me end this by saying, be careful what ya wish for. When the trappers have been pushed out and gone from one regulation after another I don't want to hear the belly aching about it. And yes I am going to laugh my [PoorWordUsage] off when coyotes start picking off pets around the metro, over populated disease ridden raccoons start death biting Spot on the nose and little Suzy finds the family cat drug up into the oak tree in the backyard and half eaten.

It easy to hate the trapper until you need him.

"There is a good reason why I stayed in the woods for months on end, wild animals made better company than city folk" Found in the nameless journal of the Baysic trapping cabin.

You might not roll over but you got pretty thin skin. And once again there was no insite on a fair compromise, just this is how it is. I certainly don't hate trappers ( hates a pretty strong word) but I will dissagree with the ones that aren't open minded enough to see both sides of the story.

[jparrucci]

I asked a number of questions that have still gone unanswered. We already have coyotes running out of control in the metro, I would think we have more here than you do up there. But you seem heck bent in not offering any ideas or compromises. If this is the attitude of most trappers, there is going to be some major changes coming.

[Eric Wettschreck]

Well it has been made very clear that my livelihood, way of live, social status and rights are worth less than a dog.

I realized this a long long long time ago. I kinda figured you already knew this.

As a hunter and a trapper I can honestly say I'd rather have my dog stick his nose in a 220 than step on a #3 double coil. At least if the 220 kills him I don't have to shoot him cuz the #3 just broke his leg.

I forsee a lot of rabid skunks and coons with distemper hanging around and dropping stinkies on peoples back decks if there is a ban on 220 ground sets. We should all prepare ourselves for the daily ritual of cleaning up around the trash cans every day, also. Lets not forget all the 3 legged muskrats and mink running around. Yes, they chew their leg off to get out of a foothold.

[RBuker]

There has been a lot of great comments made on this thread on both sides. Just so we know who's "side" I'm on, let me just tell you that I am not a trapper but do have retrievers that I hunt grouse with.

Anyway, the thing that bothers me the most is that people who should be standing up for trappers are not doing so. I hear all this talk of "compromise" but all that really amounts to is asking trappers to give up some of their privledges. Why don't some of you realize that the saying, "We must all hang together or surely we will hang apart" is valid in this case!!! Hunters should be the trappers best friend!

I'm not the least bit afraid of the 220 set and my dogs. I know how to use the trap should one of my dogs get into one, I can get it out. I'm far more worried about taking my dogs walking near traffice as one never knows when they may see a rabbit and dart in front of a car. (I had that happen once.)

People need to set their emotions aside and do what's best for their fellow sportsman. (although frankly I'd love to see spearing for northerns banned.)

PS. By the way, I loved the comment about the four foot leash. Talk about witty. Dogs would still work but not quite as effectively, just like the 220 that is forced to be set 4 feet off the ground. Seems like a reasonable "compromise" to me. HA HA HA

[randallt]

Nicely said RBuker

[Random guy]

PS. By the way, I loved the comment about the four foot leash. Talk about witty. Dogs would still work but not quite as effectively, just like the 220 that is forced to be set 4 feet off the ground. Seems like a reasonable "compromise" to me. HA HA HA

I just thought it was a great way to put it in perspective for the dog owners. Something that non trappers do not see is we have been regulated to death. Every year is more restrictions, less tags, shorter seasons yet the DNR tells us furbearing numbers are up. Heck our Fisher Martin season is only 9 days long now and I only had a week of open water between trapping opener and freeze up this year. The trapper is already rubbed raw by endless regulations and this last round is just salt in the wound.

I would have to say if the state said over the course of the last six years. Only 3 grouse per hunter, season will only be two weeks long, dogs over 40 lbs or those that run over 15 mph cannot be used. Only 2 ¾ steel loads can be used from single shot break action shotguns, so on and so forth the bird dog community would be in outrage. Trappers keep giving up rights and giving up rights and it never ends.

You want solutions here are solutions. I have already presented these and was told not good enough.

Vertical dog proof coon boxes, other states use them. Not good enough for Minnesota dog owners. As the worry was hybrid mini dogs could still get in.

220 by permit just like snares used to be. Areas of upland hunters and other dog users or wolves at the time where protected/restricted so snare permits had to applied for keeping snares out of high risk areas and monitored by local law enforcement. I was told a 220 permit was a waste of time because dog owners said the traps would still be on the ground in other places.

Change of seasons was rejected because trappers have already been pushed late into freeze up and bird hunters do not want to give up any part of a 3 ½ month long season. Plus the recreational dog users or those taking the house dog for a walk still want Fido to get in touch with his inner wolf and run free through the woods year round.

Bird hunters and trappers are required to go to training about traps. Nobody wanted to do that.

Once a group gets a hold of a anti trapping campaign there is not much one can do. We see it over and over.

We as trappers know this regulation will go through just as all the others have. We are used to seeing that what the metro wants the metro gets (this includes the suburbs). We will adapt and I’m pretty sure those methods as I have stated in previous posts will not be liked either. We tried to explain many times the current situation is good compared to what can be but everybody is so fired up as they have something to fight about in the off season they refuse to listen. Next year will be snares or jaw type, then special permits for “doggy” areas and the final blow will be marking of traps and that will be the end of it completely. I’m just glad I live in remote northern Minnesota and maybe see one bird dog a year up in the high country far from my line. I feel for the trappers south of me that have been labeled dog killing [PoorWordUsage] savages. I spoke with a DNR official (whom will not be named) again yesterday about this and he made a comment I found interesting. “They keep putting trappers in a corner it’s going to become a problem”.

He was correct on so many levels.

[creepworm]

I have a question. This is specifically aimed at jparrucci and trashguy.

What makes what you do in the outdoors more important than what others do?

I am not expecting an answer but would love to hear you try to come up with an explanation that makes even a little bit of sense. Sorry to say it, but just because you have a dog does not make you better than a person that enjoys trapping.

[Trashguy]

You can read our comments anyway you want. I sure as hell don't feel my time in the woods is more important than yours. I do cherish it very much and respect that resource (CNF) a ton. All it comes down to is I don't want to loose my dog to one of these traps PERIOD! What I do in the woods does not effect you, but what you are doing in the woods could affect me big time. Sure I could stay out of the woods during "your time", but what about that one trap that you forgot about and next spring my dog finds it. I guess if you don't love your dog as much as many of us do, it is hard for you to understand. That comment of Ranger Jack "I see no problem with a dog getting killed accidentally by a trap" Really isn't going to help the trapper's cause very much either. The comments about us hating trappers is just not true and is coming from your frustration with might be coming. No one likes change, especially when it might effect one's income, but life just sucks some times doesn't it!

[Tinkhamtown]

Split the upland and trapping seasons so dogs will not be out when trapping is going on.

[memyself@I]

Geez JP and some of you others, no one and I mean no one is suggesting that you don't have a right to trap and make money doing so. You might enjoy stirring the pot with over the top comments and being flip about it, so what? Do you want to be part of the solution or part of the problem??

EVERYONE has the right to recreate on public land, from hunting to hiking to photography and yes bringing their dog with. And people are doing so more and more often including things like shed hunting.

So go ahead and drag your feet, and make smart over the top comments, and vow that the line is drawn in the sand. Or get involved in the dialogue and see what changes can be made so that you can trap and I can recreate my dog without it getting caught and killed in a ground set 220.

Your choice, there will be ramifications positive or negative.

[Eric Wettschreck]

get involved in the dialogue and see what changes can be made so that you can trap and I can recreate my dog without it getting caught and killed in a ground set 220.

[Eric Wettschreck]

No one likes change, especially when it might effect one's income bird hunting/dog/insert various recreation here, but life just sucks some times doesn't it!

The other side of the coin.

[Trashguy]

How about this then for a compromise. I will stay out of the woods during "your time", but you get the traps off the ground? We both give. Your response?

[Eric Wettschreck]

If you're not out there during "my time", and therefore your dog is in zero danger of getting caught in a trap, what would it accomplish by getting traps off the ground?

[Trashguy]

What no compromise?

I think the suggestion to post at the beginning of a trail, that the area is being trapped would really help. I know I would stay the hell out. Ran into this few times in the spring, when the DNR was trapping wolves and I was doing my "mushroom thing". I couldn't turn around fast enough when I saw those signs that wolf trapping was going on ahead.

[lichen fox]

Something similar to that was already outlawed in regards to bear hunting...some used to put "bear bait ahead" signs on side roads or trails leading up to thier bait site...according to the DNR, that was "pre-empting" a certain spot and taking away another's right to also place a bait there...so, they said putting up those kind of signs are illegal...for the purposes that most trappers use 220's as ground sets the window of opportunity is quite narrow...as JP said 9 day seasons for fisher & martin, a 2 week season for bobcats and when trapping season opens the ones using them for coons usually only have about a 2 week window before the temps drop and the coons hibernate...As mentioned earlier, the Grouse season is 3 1/2 months long...the limit is 5 per day...10 in possession...Most grouse hunters probably have eaten enough grouse and have thier possession limit in the freezer by late november so I think that if we just stopped the grouse season say, at the same time trapping for fisher, martin & bobcat opened...(around the end of Nov)...alot of these encounters would dissapear...for the "dog-walker" they could make it a rule that dogs would have to be on leash during the bobcat-fisher-martin seasons...Oh, but there would have to be an exception for the hunters that want to run bobcats, coyotes, fox, etc. with hounds at that time also...

[TimR]

A few comments to ponder:

Why, if you are making your living off of a public resource, do you expect that the public resource will remain as it was in the 1950's when the pulbic around it is changing?

If I am out utilizing a public resource, and I pull the trigger I am responsible for that action, and the resulting animals loss of life/injury. Why is the person who sets a 220 on the ground not held to the same standard?

Why are the concerns any less for "Suburban Susie walking fluffy" (when utilizing a public resource) than for trapper XYZ?

Do you understand the concept of incompatible use?

Tim

Who owns an aged, $110 rescue lab

[monstermoose78]

We all take chances hunting is a chance. Taking your dog into the woods is a chance it might come out alive because of coyote wolf or a trap. Maybe your dog chased a deer and i was out hunting and i shot it. If you dont want your dog to get trapped keep it in your house same goes with cats.