Used kevlars from outfitters...

[Stick in Mud]

I'm looking to buy a new-for-me used kevlar canoe...and lots of them are for sale from outfitters. I'm wondering if anyone has any experiences to share about whether these canoes are a good investment. I'm a bit nervous about buying one considering just how hard these things get used. I've seen some get dropped on rocks at the end of a portage, dragged across ten yards of gravel to get put in a lake, stepped in while on the ground, etc....I guess people renting canoes just don't always take good care of them. With the amount I'm investing, I want to make sure I don't buy something that is half-way ruined, and I'm not sure how to tell from just looking at them...I mean, there are lots of scratches on all of them, as there are on canoes that are treated well, so I don't konw how much I can tell from just looking at the bottom.

Is there anything I should look out for? Are there any rules of thumb I can use to help me buy one that's still in good shape?

Carmike

[Redlantern]

Good question, I'm half heartedly looking for a lightweight canoe myself. I know Piragis out of Ely and Sawbill Outfitters sell used canoes. Might give them a call and ask them about the condition of their canoes, if they have any warranty with them, prices, etc. Since the two businesses have been around for a while and probably in part because of repeat customers, I think you'd probably get some honest answers from them.

[MNice]

I bought a souris river from voyager north quite a few years ago, I did refinish it and later sold it for more than double what I paid. You do have to look at them close, but well worth a look in my opinion.

[boe757]

I would take a look at Red Rock outfitters in Ely, good HSOforum, good info on kevlar

[CRBass]

I've bought two from Spring Creek Outfitters in Mountain Iron. They carry used and seconds with defects.

[Stick in Mud]

Yeah, "halfheartedly" pretty well describes my spot here, too, Redlantern. I'd really, really, really like a new-for-me kevlar canoe, but in no way can I say I NEED one. I'm healthy, young-ish (29 yrs old), relatively poor, and I do have access to a Penobscot 17' when I need it (I'm usually the guy hauling around an 18' Osagian in the BWCA/Quetico). But the Penobscot's not a kevlar, of course, and a nice canoe does change the kinds of trips I can do.

How easy is it to refinish a canoe? I've never done more than add skid plates to my solo, so I'm a newbie when it comes to canoe repair. Maybe that's why I shouldn't buy a used kevlar!

[Powerstroke]

As someone who is also youngish (31), I can perfectly appreciate having a kevlar canoe. Yeah, I CAN carry my 80lb Coleman, but why would you? I prefer having 35 less pounds on my boat so I can be lighter or maybe carry a nice chair or some fresh meat.

I bought a Souris River Q17 5years ago and I payed full price. A friend of mine then bought a 1yr old rental resale and Joe at RedRock store had refinished it and it looked new.

When shopping kevlars I would look for delaminating and creases from having the boat "stressed" beyond its natural flex such as over a log or wide rock. DOn't just look at the bottom, they cna also be in the sides of the boat.

Todays kevlars are not the delicate boats of the early designs. I still think Souris River builds the best mass-production kevlar by using resin rather than the gelcoat that Wenonah uses. Its a little more flexible and much tougher. I also like their boat designs. Wenonah copied the SR boat and called it the Boundary Waters edition. That just shows you about their design. I know its blasphemes to bad mouth Wenonah in MN, but I tested all of their boats at the Paddle weekend in Ely and we liked none of them except the BW model.

[Powerstroke]

As far as kevlars and refinishing them, Red Rock Store has probably the most comprehensive articles and how-to's and I've always been ab;e to get them on the phone.

My second favorite place for info is at Voyager North in Ely.

Both places sell used boats. In past years, both also sell boats at the Sportsmans Show in Mpls. I bought mine at a show price in advance and then picked up my boat at the show and saved shipping and driving costs.

[Stick in Mud]

Thanks for the info, Powerstroke...What is the usual discount for "show prices"? Lots of the outfitters are offering discounts now, so I'm just curious how much lower the show prices usually are.

[leech~~]

When shopping kevlars I would look for delaminating and creases from having the boat "stressed" beyond its natural flex such as over a log or wide rock. DOn't just look at the bottom, they cna also be in the sides of the boat. Todays kevlars are not the delicate boats of the early designs. I still think Souris River builds the best mass-production kevlar by using resin rather than the gelcoat that Wenonah uses. Its a little more flexible and much tougher.

Powerstroke some very good advise. I worked in fiberglass for about 20 years and built every thing from Bass boats to the old Bradley kit cars. All are made out of some kind of resin, either polyester or apoxy. The kevlar is the type of fiber laminate they use as compaired to the standard fiberglass mat. Gelcoat is just pigmented resin with a few other additives added to make it a little more weather resistant. As you stated look for areas that show up as white hazy spots on the bottom or sides which could be delaminating and creases. Press hard on them in and out to see if you can hear them making any creaking sound because if they do thay have delaminated from the fibers. Good luck.

[Mike_Top]

My testimonial is that my Dad bought a used-for-a-summer rental 18' Souris River from Piragis about 5 years ago. The bottom was full of scratches, but no major damage. Its gotten a lot of use since he bought it: day trips on the rum river, BWCA trips, duck hunting, etc. Seems to be very durable canoe.

I love to save money any way I can, so I thought I'd throw in my $0.02!

[Powerstroke]

When I compare the Wenonah resin to the SR resin, the SR are more flexible without cracking. I don't know if you'd call it elasticity or what, but the gelcoat resin Wenonah uses is firmer which can have its advantages, but I think its toughness makes it too rigid and more prone to cracking or holes, or at least that was my research at the time.

They may have changed in the last 5 years, but that was the discussion at the time.

My SR needs to be refinished this year. I have rubbed through the skidplates on my boat and have some good scratches, but nothing is past the outer coat. Once I got past the initial use and worries about having kevlar, I realized it is a tough boat and has been treated as such. I don't take any more chances than I would any other time and my kevlar has performed great.

[Powerstroke]

As far as show deals, I think it was 10-15%, but that was off new prices. You may be able to get an idea by talking to some of the dealers. I'm sure they would rather have you buy a new boat instead of a used one.

I knew I was gonna buy one so it helped when I was shopping since I could pounce on a price if it was good enough.

[Stick in Mud]

Thanks for the input guys...The Souris River boats are wonderful, don't get me wrong, but I prefer the MN II from Wenonah. I really, really don't like Wenonah's Boundary Waters model...much too wide / stable / slow for my preferences. I like the tracking and the speed of the MN 2, and I don't mind the lower gunwales and the slight tippiness.

This canoe for me is essentially a luxury item, so I'm pretty picky on prices. New is out of the question...I get about 4-5 BWCA/Quet trips a year, and I can't justify the $2500+ that these things go new.

Thanks very much for the advice about delamination and creasing. I will do a bit of research, and when I go and look at them next, I'll look for it. Thanks again!

[Powerstroke]

Good luck. There are many boats to be had.

I find it funny that the same reasons you dislike the SR is the same reasons I like it and vice-versa about the MN II.

Good thing there are lots of different designs out there.

[Stick in Mud]

Yeah, it's funny how that works out sometimes. In some crazy scheme to turn a profit, these canoe companies have made more than one style of canoe!

[Redlantern]

Some good info on here. Anyone with any experience with Bell canoes? How do they compare with SR and Wenonah?

[Stick in Mud]

Bell was bought out a while ago, and I've heard lots of bad things about the quality of the canoes made since then. This is just hearsay, of course, so take it with a grain of salt, but I've heard the same thing from many folks with no axes to grind. Just my .02.

[Duffman]

I bought my SR used, it was only 2 yrs old and I pretty much paid half price of a new full priced one.

The only thing I'd worry about with an outfitter canoe is the use. A month of outfitter use is probably comparable to 3-5 yrs of normal use for a canoe.

And as has been already said, when it ain't the folks own canoes, those kevlars take an unnecassary beating.

[LatLong]

I bought a Souris River Quetico 17 LeTigre green as a holdover from Joe at Red Rock in Ely. It was a 2008(new) canoe purchased in early 2009 for $1800. If I remember correctly I called in February to check on the prices of 2009 boats because Red Rock's HSOforum still had 2008 prices on it and Joe told me about the holdovers. "Put my name on one, check's in the mail" I said.

So check on hold over canoes early in the year. Might be a way to find a deal good enough to pull the trigger on.

[laker1]

I am a Souris river canoe person and I like the little more clearance above waterline then a Wenonah Minnesota 2. The Souris river is a good tracking canoe and it does great in waves and cruises at a moderate rate. Its popularity has exploded in the last few years.

[Stick in Mud]

Thanks for the advice, Latlong....that's a good idea. If i don't end up buying one this winter, I'll definitely give it a try.

[teamfish]

I lived on the North Shore most of my life and know the people well at the Sawbill Outfitters. They are very good people who can be trusted. They sell their canoes after about 3 years. They have a great news letter online with the canoes that are for sale.

[Scott M]

Call around. Sometimes it's advertised, sometimes it's not, but I know a couple outfits on the Gunflint Trail that sell them discounted after a year of use. That's the route I plan to go when I finally scrounge up the money.

[Stick in Mud]

I've entered the BWCA at Sawbill a few times--twice last year--and I also had nothing but excellent experiences there. I'm curious about how they--and all outfitters--store their kevlar canoes. I'm more worried about UV damage, especially if the canoe is more than a year old, than I am about scratches on the bottom. Scratches can be fixed, but I don't know how to undo UV damage, and I've seen some kevlars that've been out in the sun and they look...shady, pardon the pun.

I guess I'm just that canoes from outfitters might have UV damage, esp if they've been stored outside for three years. Am I worrying about the wrong thing here??