poured concrete step repair

[Tom7227]

I have a 54 year old house with a two step and a platform poured in place concrete back step. The side against the house and about 2/3rds of another side are anchored to the house. A crack formed that is about 2 feet long. I have patched it twice before and I was starting to do it again today. A bit of frost or a poor repair job loosened the previous repair. I knocked out all of the old/loose stuff.

So there clearly is a void under the platform. It is at least 8 inches deep in one spot. I suspect that there has been a crack in the block and that sand has migrated down into the voids in the block.

Should I fill that void with sand or leave it be? I have the patching cement to top it off. R&R on the entire steps I suppose is possible but since they are otherwise sound I am thinking about only a repair.

thanks for your time.

Tom

[LightningBG]

Picture would help.

But. If you really want to keep it. I'd pull out all the debris you can and fill the crack with concrete. Hope for the best.

[Jim Almquist]

Tom, Back when I did masonry work all of our steps were filled with dirt. When the footings are poured you would also pour footings for the step-butts. While the basement was built you would also build up the step-butts till you got to the final course. At this point you would set up forms for the steps and back fill most of it with dirt before you would pour the steps. I would guess in your case that there has been a little settling of the dirt over the past 56 years. The only advice that I could offer is to maybe seal the concrete with a white liquid that helps make the new concrete stick better. I don't know the name right off the top of my head but it worked great when I had to do some repair on my driveway. I found it at Menards but would bet Home Depot would also carry a concrete sealer.

[trolloni]

The good stuff is called weldcrete its blue and expensive but if applied right you will never have to worry or fix it ever again !the white stuff ive seen was made by elmers glue just a bonding agent you clean all loose matierial away paint it on wait for it to dry then apply youre portland or masonary mix .

[Tom7227]

I started on it today and didn't like what I found. I poured 2 - 40lb bags of sand and about 50 lbs of mortar mix into the crack. I expected it to be full but found out that I could put a coat hanger down about 12 inches. Which is about to the level of the outside cement.

Should I continue to fill it up or just come up with a way to seal it off and cement it up?

Here are some pics - the wet spot is just where I moved a mat.

[Jim Almquist]

Tom, It is up to you on what you do next but I think your steps may not have step-butts. My guess is your steps are sinking slowly and that is what formed the crack. The part that is by the house in the corner may be sitting on a brick ledge so it is resting on the foundation while the front part of the steps may be floating/slowly sinking down. I really don't think that filling in the steps with sand is going to help with that problem. Not sure where you want to go with this other than patching the steps every couple of years or taking out the concrete steps and make a small deck out of wood.

Back when we built basements the step-butts were tied to the footings and the blocks were also tied in. If that was the case you should see that in the basement where the step are located. What you would see is a break in the 12" block and there would be a 8" block and about 4-5' away you would see another. That was the way we did it but every company has there way of doing things.

[Tom7227]

Jim,

The basement walls are finished so I can't check for butts, but I don't recall seeing any there.

You are correct about the sinking. Putting a level on the platform shows a 1.5 inch dip in the outside corner, the one on the lower right in the picture.

I still think that there has to be something going on with the material under the steps however since clearly it had to be full when the steps were poured. I might keep putting sane and maybe some mortar mix down just to make me feel good. Something about pouring money down a hole just seems like the right thing to do in this economy. At least I can see what's going in and know where it'll end up.

Thanks for your time.

Tom

[soldoncass]

A 50 year old house probably doesn't have a footing under the step(bottom of picture). If that is the case, you will NEVER be able to patch it for a long term fix, because it is moving from frost. I would dig down beside the step to see what is there. If there is no footing, then you have 2 choices.....1. knock out the step, put a footing 42 " down,lay blocks up, pour new step.....2. dig down 42", dig footing under step, pour concrete footing, underpin step with blocks,(could jack it up some), replace dirt.....THEN patch crack, with good quality stuff. Have to keep the step from moving with the frost, before any repair has a chance to work.

[Tom7227]

5 sixty pound bags of dry sand mix concrete raised the level maybe 3 inches. I don't think it makes sense to try and fill the remaining 6-9 inches. I think I'll put something in the bottom of the cracks to stop the patch cement from falling through and call it a day.

[SFC]

Use a good bonding agent, patch and cover with some nice carpet.