What was Jones doing?

[Walt Sobchak]

Am I the only that can't figure out what in the heck Jaques Jones was thinking when he caught that ball last night? The reason you play the outfielders in like that is so the runner on third can't tag up on a fly ball. The ball was hit right at him and he catches it and makes a half-*** throw to the cutoff man?!?!?! What in the name of all things holy would make him throw to the cutoff man, who by the way was out of position. If he makes a good throw Jeter's out by a couple of steps and we head to the 13th on a huge high.

It was one of the most costly fundamental errors I've seen. When you're the Twins and your payroll is a third of your opponents and everybody on earth is saying how fundamentally sound you are and how you play the game the right way, blah, blah, blah you can't ever make mistakes like that. You can't do it in the first inning of a regular season game, let alone the 12th inning of the ALDS when you have a chance to basically put the Yankees away.

It just boggles my mind.

[pikehunter]

Walt,
Jones was put in a pretty tough position. On a fly ball, I have no doubt he would have thrown Jeter out, but it was a LINE SHOT right at him. Unfortunately, he could do nothing to set himself up for the throw and a quick flip to the cutoff man was the absolute quickest way to get the ball to the plate. Didn't work out, give credit to Matsui, who did his job.
Anybody who has ever played knows it's impossible to make a throw to the plate from the position Jones was forced to catch the ball in.

[First Ice-Mike]

I agree with pikehunter. There was no way Jones could get behind that ball. If Nathan throws strikes the Twins win - simple as that.

FI

[Mudcutter]

Didn't see the game. Listened on the radio to Gordo etc on the radio. Have not seen replays. I'am sure after a whole season of hearing Gladden on the radio that he would have said something about that if it was the case. Yes, the TWins would have had huge a lift going to the 13th, but that means someome would have pitched the bottom the 13th. Who is that?? The Twins were out of their studs. Williams, Posada and Sierra would have been due up. The game was lost when Kubel K in the 8th. Flip flop it to the dome. Twins last at bat agst Sturtz, or Loazia. Down a run. I'll take that. The last at bat is huge.

[Windy City Walleye Hunter]

Walt,
If you will allow a pale hose supporter from the south side of Chicago to chime in, I would have to agree with you. I think the mistake Jones made was the body position he allowed himself to get into in preparation of the throw. True, it was a line shot but he had plenty of time to adjust the angle of his body. He looked like a right handed throwing fielder preparing to throw. Is his arm hurt, cause it sure looked like it on the weak throw to the cut off man. I would have to disagree with some of the others who chimed in here, that throwing to the cut off man takes more time than a direct throw or even bouncing it in on one hop.
And as always, YOU CAN PUT IT ON THE BOARD...YES!

[IFallsRon]

Windy, Jones plays right field like Sosa. They both stand out there flat-footed thinking about how hard they're gonna swing in their next at-bat.

[honker23]

I heard mention of a sore arm, but if that is the case, play Ford and DH him. I think he hurried the throw plain and simple. It was a line shot, catch it, take a few steps and let it go. A throw straight through will get Jeter. But as stated throw strikes to Cairo and Jeter and we win!

[Walt Sobchak]

I agree that there are other things that could have gone differently. Along with Nathan throwing strikes, I think Lew Ford would have made the catch on A-Rod's double, I don't think Radke should have started the 7th, Koskie's double could have stayed in play, etc.

But this one stands out to me because it was a fundamentally bad defensive play on the most important play of the year for a team that is supposed to be so fundamentally sound.

Oh well, I think I'm starting to get over it. Hopefully the Twins will take the next two and this will be a moot point. I don't think I can watch the Yankees celebrate around home plate again, it's starting to make me ill.

While I'm on an anti-Yankees rant. Did you know that before Joe Torre started in '96 George Steinbrenner's Yankees had won 2 World Series championships in 23 years? I get so tired of hearing how Steinbrenner is such a great owner and you just don't like him because he wins. No, Joe Torre wins, George Steinbrenner just fires people and complains.

[pikehunter]

There's a chance that Jones didn't think Jeter would run (he admitted he never looked) but I just don't think it would have mattered. Don't get me wrong, the play should have been closer, but with the outfield in, you just try to get the ball into the infield as quickly as possible. I've only seen the replay once, maybe twice, when it's not slowed down, and it's an absolute shot - a rising shot - that Jones can't run in on and doesn't have time to back up on. But, like I said, I only saw it once.
He could have made a better throw, yes, but let's not get ridiculous. No player, anywhere, can throw the ball on a line to the plate from a flat-footed position - that is, without a crow hop - from where Jones was standing.
While we're at it, the relay throw on the other hand, while it probably didn't matter, was miserable.
I think Jones' arm is fine, and Gardy doesn't want to break up the OF, because these guys thrive on playing around each other. Otherwise I think we'd see Ford DH'ing for Stewart, who would have caught A-Rod's double if he were healthy.
Anyway ... can't wait till tomorrow night!!!
Go Twins!!!

[wade22]

The reason JJ didn't make a strong throw was the fact that the ball was a line shot. This makes all the difference, as previously pointed out. At first I questioned the throw, but on the replay it was knuckling too. Hard to set up for a throw when you have to take care of a line out. Let's not get carried away here. Even on a terrific throw after a LINE DRIVE, you still rely on your cutoff man. When the baserunner is named Derek Jeter, you are NOT going to get that out. End of the story.

My biggest reservation with last night's tilt was the move to put Rivas in as runner in the top of 8. Gardy in effect took his biggest bat (JM) out of the lineup in a game that wasn't even tied. You could tell he was exasperated in the dugout after Koskie's line shot bounced out for the ground rule double. He was playing for the win in that inning. Gutsy move, but I bet he wishes he'd have that one back. Like I said, it would have been different had the score been tied, but we needed Rivas to score as the go-ahead run. Flooky bounce or the Twins would have won.

[SPUD BAR]

I think on that final play, there were 3 mistakes by the twins. First was the weak throw by Jones, the second was the horrible throw by Lecroy after he cut it off (he threw it 6 ft wide from 80 feet away!!), and I also noticed that Borders was 5 feet up the line to take the throw. Even if Lecroy's throw was perfect, Borders wouldnt have been able to reach Jeter with a tag. Did anyone else notice this or was I seeing things?

SPUD

[Walt Sobchak]

"impossible to make a throw to the plate from the position Jones was forced to catch the ball in."

I must have been watching a different game. I've seen second basemen make throws to the plate from out there running away from the infield. I don't think you're taking into account where he was. In his normal outfield position, I agree the cutoff man is the only way to go. But from where he was a major league outfielder has to be able to make a strong throw home. Flat footed or not. I'd also argue that he didn't have to be flat-footed when he caught it. He could have been at least starting to make a move home.

I still say it was a huge mental error on a crucial play.

[Mudcutter]

I finally saw the throw for the first time. I think everyone on here has valid points. For some reason, (someone mentioned it allready) I don't think Jones thought Jeter was going to go and he got in quickly to Country Bumpkin. Country Bumpkin's throw was terrible. I think Borders came out in front of the plate becasue the throw was so bad.
Anyhew, you can tis and tate that whole game forever. Time to concentrate on tonights game.
Can someone watch it for me? I have to work at midnight and the bar is a big no-no before work and I have no cable. Looks like its the radio once again, a very nerve racking time.
GO TWINS!!!! Touch' em ALL!!!

[juggs]

Welcome to the world of Major League Baseball, Walt. Where the fundamentals have gone the way of high-button shoes and T-rex. These guys must spend all their practice time working on poses for their baseball card. Jones made a horrible play, period. He could have re-gathered himself, took a couple extra steps, and still made the play closer than it was with a stronger throw. You can blame Nathan all you want, he stunk, too, but that doesn't get Jones off the hook. He played it poorly.

[bigbucks]

I would agree that LeCroy's throw was terrible, but even there I don't blame him. He hasn't made a decent throw all season, his arm's horrible, I'm sure he works on it, but if you can't throw, you can't throw. Gardy said Jones had to reach up for the line drive, which he did, meaning he could get much on the throw. It was a tough bounce, but the game was lost before that play IMO.