Special Session - Cass Lake spearing

[CaptainMusky]

I guess we need to resort to insults since you are not happy?

I understand that, but none of that is in this bill is it? I haven't read the whole thing, so I could be wrong.

Exactly where were musky angler open to compromise?

Seriously? Arent you the pot calling the kettle black?! You tell a guy to calm down and have a beer and not get worked up, that is insulting to me.

No, there is not stocking provisions in this bill. I was drawing a correlation to your comment in how arrogant it was. Instead how Muskies and MN DNR did was have open forums (town hall meetings) for public input and questions. This is how the system should work, not like MDAA got this accomplished. Not at all. I thought smaller government was the desire?

[spearchucker]

Sorry for insulting you, I had no intention of that.

The public input meetings are the reason that the musky stocking didn't happen in some lakes. I guess the system worked the way it was supposed to in those situations.

I am not aware of any strong armed politics by the MDAA other than talking to some legislators about what they wanted. I think that is far from strong armed, but maybe there is something I don't know about?

[Musky Buck]

Let me try to figure out muskie stocking on Cass Lake, Cass isn't stocked is it ? Not to my knowledge. Here's my best guess at it, a few crazy's from Cass Lake with the help of an attorney type and my guess is Mr. Kirk or Kurt Schnitker is heavily involved. He was muskytrouble HSOforum boy and cry baby about SW MN deer numbers blaming the dnr etc. I wonder if he's involved, if so time to send him the thickest buttery/salt laden snacks he's ever inhaled and I doubt he lives in rural MN, someone please tell me he has 0 involvement in this issue, he's good with fine print and you have to be if you want idiotic ideas to get through, he would be the weasel sneaky type with a connection.

[CaptainMusky]

Sorry for insulting you, I had no intention of that.

The public input meetings are the reason that the musky stocking didn't happen in some lakes. I guess the system worked the way it was supposed to in those situations.

I am not aware of any strong armed politics by the MDAA other than talking to some legislators about what they wanted. I think that is far from strong armed, but maybe there is something I don't know about?

I was kidding spearchucker, it takes a lot to insult me, just trying to prove a point.

[AWH]

The public input meetings are the reason that the musky stocking didn't happen in some lakes. I guess the system worked the way it was supposed to in those situations.

I don't have the numbers in front of me. But I'm sure someone does. Public support was strongly in favor of stocking in all of the recent proposals going back as far as Gull Lake +/- 5 years ago. It was politics and a couple of loud squeaky wheels that got them shot down. That's how it seems to work every time. Is that how the system is supposed to work?

Aaron

[BOUNCED]

I don't think this is as big a deal as some are making it out to be. I bet at the end of this there will be no change to the fishery. Every time a lakes gets opened back up everyone says the lake is doomed and it never happens.

I agree except lakes never get opened back up. It's refreshing to have a bit of freedom back.

If I we're out to meat hunt I'd be running tip ups, it's a far more efficient way to put fish on the ice. I'd still release all the fish I do while spearing (which all swim away unharmed). The only difference is every one I hook has a chance of dying, whether it's a Pike, Walleye or the sacred Musky. This is all ok, but god forbid I try and harvest a fish with a spear. Any way you look at it banning us from spearing Cass was unfair. The law is the law I can only harvest with a spear what I can harvest with hook and line. I'd be willing to bet anglers kill more muskies in this heat wave due to hook mortality then are ever harmed on Cass in the next five years.

This beef with spearing isn't as much about spearing as it is the fact that we're the only group who's given any resistance to the endless Musky stocking. If I had my way I'd give you Cass back you can keep the slots on all the lakes you have now and you don't stock another lake in this state with muskies.

[ole matty]

Spearing is dying sport and Muskie fishing is growing a lot annually, with only 120 muskies lake or so in entire state And your saying we should not stock new lakes?? That's really selfish of you. I think state should limit spearing lake to 120 and see how you guys like it.

[50inchpig]

Erv, good luck fooling everyone somewhere else by trying to play dumb about the whole thing, most people here are smarter than that. Spearchuckerhead, you've both crossed the line from ridiculous to delusional as far as logic goes.

Just remember this someday when you or your kids only have 28 lakes to spear on instead of 9972 and spearing is dead. It'll be your own greedy fault. Enjoy your huge slice of pie while you can.

[Jackpine Rob]

Large blocks of ice that are left out leaving a large unmarked hole in the ice are deadly to snowmobilers and children. I can see the bill now, #643 Reducing Spearing hole sizes to 10" or less..

Yep, the body count last winter was just awful! All of those grieving parents, the families of the dead and maimed snowmobilers....

Gotta love the hyperbole in this thread!!

Keep at it guys.

[BOUNCED]

Spearing is dying sport and Muskie fishing is growing a lot annually, with only 120 muskies lake or so in entire state And your saying we should not stock new lakes?? That's really selfish of you. I think state should limit spearing lake to 120 and see how you guys like it.

Wild boar hunting has become pretty popular and I love to hunt them.

Maybe we should set them free here?

I hear snakeheads put up a hell of a fight too.

It's about putting fish where they don't belong. I can't help you chose a sport with limited opportunities. Maybe we should sacrifice more lakes so you have more options?

I'm selfish?

[spearchucker]

Erv, good luck fooling everyone somewhere else by trying to play dumb about the whole thing, most people here are smarter than that. Spearchuckerhead, you've both crossed the line from ridiculous to delusional as far as logic goes.

Just remember this someday when you or your kids only have 28 lakes to spear on instead of 9972 and spearing is dead. It'll be your own greedy fault. Enjoy your huge slice of pie while you can.

If only you were as smart as you think you are. Evidently my ridiculous and delusional mind has fooled you because my name is not Erv and I am not trying to fool anyone. Anything else about myself that I should know about?

[Shoot2Kill]

[ Maybe we should sacrifice more lakes so you have more options?

I'm selfish?

Are you freckin' kidding me? Did you really just say that? Just how in the heck are you sacrificing anything with endless lakes in this state to spear on? Within 60 miles (or an hour if you will) of where you sit, count the lakes you can spear on and post it up. Within 60 miles of me I have 3 options...I can't wait to see how much you're sacrificing.

[CaptainMusky]

[10,000 Casts]

Quote:

Yep, the body count last winter was just awful! All of those grieving parents, the families of the dead and maimed snowmobilers....

Gotta love the hyperbole in this thread!!

Keep at it guys.

agreed, but when politicians get involved, the stupid becomes reality.. Do you want professionals controling our natural resources or distict senators influenced by how many votes they can earn in thier district?

I love to spear and I love to fish Muskies. I can go almost anywhere and be all alone while spearing, I can't do the same with Muskies unless I go to Canada.

[Rebel9921]

Wild boar hunting has become pretty popular and I love to hunt them.

Maybe we should set them free here?

I hear snakeheads put up a hell of a fight too.

It's about putting fish where they don't belong. I can't help you chose a sport with limited opportunities. Maybe we should sacrifice more lakes so you have more options?

I'm selfish?

Sacrifice??? Well I know that we are sacrificing our time debating with ignorant people like you... Thats like saying "I cant help you choose a sport thats dying... but sure go ahead, do this and that that will bring no positive result to Minnesota Fishery..." There is a huge difference between a growing sport and a dying sport... and like I stated in the other posting... We've compromised, We've dealt things head on, face to face, and you're pretty much defending the backstabbing backdoor dealings that got this Pandora's box opened up... That says whole lot about your character!!! We muskie fishermen have only 110 or so lakes to fish out... and we were working with the DNR and the Public to try and protect the esox fishery along with presenting some more opportunities (10-15 more lakes and how many percentage is that???)... and how much it has come since the 1980's... and that one simple backstabbing dealing pretty much dropped an atomic bomb into the progression...

You cannot compare Muskies and Spearfishing with Wild Boar and Snakeheads!!! Please educate yourself on the long-term facts before you dare compare Muskie/Spearing and Wild Boar/Snakeheads... Muskies' home range includes the State of Minnesota... while Wild Boar/Snakeheads doesnt!!! BIG difference!!!

[Muskiefool]

I have never seen any evidence that the MDAA wants to spear muskies.

Ive heard the Darkhouse leadership say publicly (most notably in Waterville at Bullheads Bar)"Let us spear Muskies and we'll let you put them in every lake" You may have been at that Long Range Plan public meeting Chucker, it was set up between the President of the So. chapter of MDAA and myself.

Never one time has any of the Muskie and Pike folks asked for a ban or to outlaw spearing, never one time; its always been the opposite.

Its almost as if they keep saying its going to happen, then going to all ends to push people into saying something against spearing so you guys can have proof that something that isn't real is.

I dont have any problem with spearing; but I do with the anti-Muskie anti-regulation agenda of the MDAA, such as the half page ad in the ODN last year to stop Muskie stocking. I also have a problem with why so few in power feel they cant or dont need to fallow the law when the majority of spearers I know actually like spearing slot lakes; why screw it up for your own?

If your not going to go out and pound every 30+ inch Pike on Cass I wonder why after a 27 to 40 slot was mentioned your legislation was changed to keep the DNR from adding regulations for you.

Many of our members are spearing stakeholders; you see they actually go outside in the summer and fish, its fun. Then in the winter they go spear and fish; that's fun too. They dont understand why you want to stop Muskie stocking and keep chipping away at Catch and Release. This is what I hear; not my words.

Good Luck.

[spearchucker]

I wasn't at that meeting, but I heard about it. I think I know who said that and I am sure that it was said out of frustration, just as many comments that are made on this board. I know that person would never spear a musky, but it was a dumb thing to say regardless.

I have also heard of Muskies Inc members saying similar things at these public input meetings as well about not being happy until spearing is banned,, etc. In all honesty, these public input meetings are a formality. The DNR already knows what they are going to do and for the most part these meetings are held because they have to.

I don't want to get into a name calling contest and he said she said deal. There have been things said out of anger and frustration on both sides that I'm sure will never be acted on. Things were quite a bit different with Muskies, Inc. in the past and many people are having a hard time forgetting that.

[BOUNCED]

Never one time has any of the Muskie and Pike folks asked for a ban or to outlaw spearing, never one time; its always been the opposite.

Here's your pudding

[RK]

I have also heard of Muskies Inc members saying similar things at these public input meetings as well about not being happy until spearing is banned,, etc. In all honesty, these public input meetings are a formality. The DNR already knows what they are going to do and for the most part these meetings are held because they have to.

Couple thoughts:

1.) The public input meetings are by no means a formality. They have a huge influence on what the DNR does or does not do. They're the main way the DNR takes stock of the "social considerations" part of management decisions. There are lots of examples where public support for something was overwhelming, but the nature and source of the opposition was such that the majority position was not followed. Muskie stocking on Gull and Upper and Lower South Long - and Tetonka for that matter - are recent examples I'm familiar with, but I know there are others. It's the old adage - the decisions are made by those who show up.

2.) If you hear muskie guys talking about banning spearing, image how often John and I hear it. I've had guys screaming at me asking why I'm not at the capitol working on a spearing ban. My answer is "I don't want one, and you shouldn't either." This is one of those things some in the spearing community can never seem to grasp. When it comes to muskie guys, John and I, Shawn... we're the moderates. Trying to reach compromises with the spearing interests would have been anathema to a lot of past muskies inc guys, and plenty of current ones too. John's exactly right when he says none of the muskie guys involved in these discussions for the last several years have ever, EVER, proposed an outright ban on spearing. I still refuse to believe that a quality pike fishery and spearing are mutually exclusive.

RK

[Sackett]

I have also heard of Muskies Inc members saying similar things at these public input meetings as well about not being happy until spearing is banned,, etc. In all honesty, these public input meetings are a formality. The DNR already knows what they are going to do and for the most part these meetings are held because they have to.

I don't want to get into a name calling contest and he said she said deal. There have been things said out of anger and frustration on both sides that I'm sure will never be acted on. Things were quite a bit different with Muskies, Inc. in the past and many people are having a hard time forgetting that.

Things said out of frustration and anger that will never be acted upon................well look at the paid-for ad that was ran in Outdoor News attached above. I read that when it first came out and was shocked. It's so poorly done. Any intelligent person, let alone angler, can see it's garbage. Printed solely to twist the perception of the uneducated person. That's the only way the MDAA could think to gain support, shoot for the dummos. Why else would Outdoor News attach a disclaimer to it??.....Because its ridiculous, unsupported info that attempts to blatantly show shoddy info.........and thats sure seems like acted upon frustration and anger.

[HugoBox]

I have what may be a few ignorant questions but I'll ask anyway.

Why does the MDAA oppose musky stocking?

Is it a biological thing? Everyone concerned that the Great White musky will eat everything else in the lake (Last I checked the stocked metro lakes still have a few bass and pannies I think).

If muskies aren't a target for spearers why does it matter if they are in the lake?

Is there concern that adding skis will result in more spearing regs?

Or is it truly an "us against them" deal?

I care about muskies so I am biased, but to Rob's point above I've not really cared much about spearing regs until the past year or two. To be honest, I used to want to try spearing but after seeing ads like the one above and learning how much the MDAA has fought the expansion of musky stocking my attitude has changed a quite a bit. It does seem odd though that slot limits, which are a proven method for improving fisheries across many species, are somehow a bad idea. Again, maybe my ignorance is showing, but even if muskies and musky guys are the enemy it seems that a sport that targets pike and depends on a healthy pike population would want to promote regs that are good for the overall pike population.

Thanks - box

[BOUNCED]

Well I know that we are sacrificing our time debating with ignorant people like you...

We've compromised, We've dealt things head on, face to face, and you're pretty much defending the backstabbing backdoor dealings that got this Pandora's box opened up...

and that one simple backstabbing dealing pretty much dropped an atomic bomb into the progression...

You cannot compare Muskies and Spearfishing with Wild Boar and Snakeheads!!! Please educate yourself on the long-term facts before you dare compare Muskie/Spearing and Wild Boar/Snakeheads... Muskies' home range includes the State of Minnesota... while Wild Boar/Snakeheads doesnt!!! BIG difference!!!

1. What happen to the rules about personal attacks? I'm far from ignorant.

2. As to "backstabbing backdoor dealings" both sides were represented at the state level both parties presented there sides of the argument (plus a nation wide mass emailing to the governor) and a vote was made by representatives we the people voted in.

3. This was merely to make a point. I well aware of the fact that the introduction of those two is ridiculous. Stocking muskies in some lakes "because I want more opportunities" would be just as crazy. I am educated on the long term facts, I've also seen what it's done on a few metro lakes and it nice to see the DNR taking a good hard look at things before proposing a new lake. This wasn't done in the past.

One things for sure, these internet debates will get us nowhere.

[BOUNCED]

Drop me a note this winter if you'd like to try spearing Hugo, I'd love to take you.

If you've never done it, it's a beautiful thing!

[10,000 Casts]

Quote:

Stocking muskies in some lakes "because I want more opportunities" would be just as crazy.

I live in the Brainerd area and I have about 600 clients from the area. This is a resort area and the service industry is the main economic driver. I can't even beging to explain to you how many people are out of work (I have heard of jobless rates up to 23%)and struggling because of the lack work availible. I'm not saying that Muskies would cure it obviously but with the added opportunities, it would lead to more people coming to the area, spending thier money and enjoying themselves. If you have a spearing idea or anything else that can add to the local economy I would love to hear it because we need it.

[RK]

Hiya -

At the risk of causing a cosmic cataclysm... I agree with Spearhead... Spearing is a really unique activity. There's nothing like it. I grew up doing it - with a rope around my ankle in case I stepped in the hole. I don't think people "get it" until they've experienced it.

Where Spearhead and I diverge though is issues like Cass. When the options are binary - open it up to spearing with no protection at all for the pike population there, or keep it closed, I would - and have - argued in favor of keeping it closed.

But that wasn't the only option available. As I said before, there was a way laying in front of everyone involved that would have let each interested party have their cake and eat it too. Open spearing on Cass, which the spearers want. Additional protection for the muskie population, which the muskie guys want. Protection for trophy pike that would have still allowed spearing the size fish the spearing representatives have said over and over in multiple venues are what they really want.

Instead we got a rule that explicitly prohibits the DNR from regulating spearing on Cass, does nothing to protect the trophy pike that are there, and takes no steps to further protect the muskie population. If the DNR DOES have to take steps to protect the pike fishery there, it'll be tighter restrictions on all other types of harvest.

That's what's ultimately so frustrating to me. There was a path available that would have kept these two sides from being at odds. It was the path not taken.