Jr

[kbb]

Didn't come one here to slam Jr one bit, more to stand up for the driver I like to watch, the 18, the car you slam. Where did I insult you? Remember you said I was not intelligent and that was due to me liking the 18 more than the 88.

We're passionate about who we like, but we can't get down on one another so hard because of who we like. It's just racing for cripes sake!

[harvey lee]

This thread is about Jr and not Kyle. I did not drag Kyle into this, you seemed to want to start something.

There is a thread on Kyle and that's where you can have it with anything I said about the Kyle.

You came into this thread to not talk about the subject but to try and compare Kyle to Jr.

That's not what this thread subject is about.

In regards to you saying I said you were not intellegent due to the fact you liked the 18 more than the 88 is a dream on your part. I am sorry that you totally misunderstood what I stated.

Here is what I stated.

I was discussing Jr

"No, he has not won a race for quite some time but I would guess that you may be intelligent enough to know why. Then again, maybe not."

If you are going to quote me, please quote correctly.

It is now becoming very clear why you like Kyle so much.

[kbb]

[

It is now becoming very clear why you like Kyle so much.

[gregg52]

*-++++++++++

How do you win two Nationwide Championships back-to-back with a lack of driving skills?

make no misatake about it the ole man had plenty to do with that

and i believe if he was still around jr would have been more sucessful on the track than he has

will the 18 win more championships than the 88

ABSOLUTELY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[LMITOUT]

So the old man was driving the car for Jr? I don't follow what you are implying in how Sr made a difference in two championships?

[gregg52]

oh just his presence for one thing but all is input and drive

if you dont believe losing his dad had a major impact on jr

i'd say one would be alittle goofy

you think he is the restrictor plate driver he is cuz he's a highly skilled race car driver....i dont think so

people outside the car have alot to do with who is good and who aint

as stated in the other thread

jj and knaus

everham and gordon

chirldress and the ole man

even...waltrip and hamon

enmam and petty

[&JAG]

I understand where the Jr. lovers and haters are coming from both. My take is Jr. has some of the best equipment and people around him today. I look at drivers like Dinger, Regan Smith, Ambrose and Montoya as drivers who if they had the same equipment etc. would win races (more than one) for sure over the last three year. Yes, we can talk all day about crew chief connection blah blah blah. The point is Jr. has finally got his head outta his a**! He doesn't whine like a baby all race long and he spends time with his crew and works hands on in all aspects. I do believe he is way overated and come seasons end this will show. If your in NASCAR and you drive a Hendrick car there is never a reason to finish outside the top 15 EVER! I hope he wins a race this year but, the only chance I see is a restrictor plate race. Lets face it Kansas was a fluke... I will give him a 2nd at Martinsville. But, otherwise consistent not a contender by any means. He has had some awesome luck and good fortune thus far. It is a long season I stll don't see him finishing in the top 8. Just my take. Go #24 and #33!!

[LMITOUT]

people outside the car have alot to do with who is good and who aint

Thank you for proving the point about Jr that we have been making all along.

[gregg52]

oh i think jr can drive a race car

but he's not a GREAT driver

or a stand out like his dad or guys like mark m rusty darrel w etc etc

remember the 24 went what over 80 races winless and i would maybe say

he's a tick better driver than jr

jr is kinda running about the same the 24 ran the last couple yrs always in the 5 or so in points..but couldnt close the deal

he will probably win a race before yrs end

maybe this week end i think this is where he won last all though it was a fuel deal

championship i doubt it

i dont think the 48 is done yet

(Thank you for proving the point about Jr that we have been making all along.)

you know that works both ways drivers have to be albe to tell chiefs whats going on with the car...listen the jj..m martin...kyle..etc etc

so you cant dump it off on all the crew chiefs all the time

but the way martins running i might think lance mgrue isnt the best

all though he didnt run real well last yr either

still he has 5 more wins in the last how many wins than jr

and he's what 51!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

hendricks huh!!

the 5 has won

the 48 has won

the 24 has won

the 88 ????????????????????????????

[harvey lee]

I do not believe that Jr believes he is a GREAT driver but I do believe that many fans expect Jr to fill his Dad's shoes just like Petty and others.

One cannot expect Jr to fill those shoes as many do.

They would love to see Jr do as well as his father but Sr was one of the greatest ever.

Fans have put a ton of pressure on Jr to do exactly what his father did and there will be very few if any that will ever exceed those stats.

"people outside the car have alot to do with who is good and who aint"

That's exactly what I have been trying to say from the get go. It takes a complete team and crew chief to do well in NASCAR. I am sure that is why Mr hendrick made the changes he did this season with his teams.

[&JAG]

First of all Jr. and J Gordon are in two different zip codes when it comes down to drivers... Even if Jr. could drive like JG he would skrew up in the pits like he does every other race anyway. But, somehow the cautions always seem to work to his advantage. Look at Kansas he spun out off the track, no one in the way... Caution. Biffle does the same thing at Pocono no Caution; around the same point in the race lame! I think some of you Jr. fans need to see what has been helping him through the year, it is very obvious. It was in the past they couldn't help him because he would always slap his car into the wall and not run well.

[harvey lee]

Yes, Jr right along with many others makes mistakes.

I will also say any driver who does well all season does need some luck from time to time.

I have no idea where Jr will finish this season at this time. My op was only saying that to date, his season is going much better than the past few years.

Will he finish in the top ten, the jury is still out on that one.

I will say it will not be that long before Jr has some terrible luck and it could be this weekend.

I have never seen a driver that does not want some good luck on his side.

[&JAG]

I agree. But, I was saying his luck is NASCAR and yes, true luck is good also... I hope he does well though this season.

[HOF#13]

First of all Jr. and J Gordon are in two different zip codes when it comes down to drivers... Even if Jr. could drive like JG he would skrew up in the pits like he does every other race anyway. But, somehow the cautions always seem to work to his advantage. Look at Kansas he spun out off the track, no one in the way... Caution. Biffle does the same thing at Pocono no Caution; around the same point in the race lame! I think some of you Jr. fans need to see what has been helping him through the year, it is very obvious. It was in the past they couldn't help him because he would always slap his car into the wall and not run well.

Really JAG? If NASCAR was all about helping Jr. do you honestly think he would have a 100+ race winless streak? NASCAR could have given him the win in Charlotte in the Coca-Cola 600. He had the lead at the white flag. All they had to do was throw the caution for debris after he had taken the white flag and the win was his. NASCAR didn't...and there is no real NASCAR favoring Jr. conspiracy.

If a person is honest and realistic it should not be too hard to give Jr. some credit this year.

Yes, Jr. and his entire team are having a very good year. The last few years Jr. wasn't as focused and dedicated as he needed to be, and then combine that with a crew chief you don't gell with, you have very sub-par seasons....which Jr. had.

It is clear from what I have seen, heard, and read, that Jr. has rededicated himself to 110% effort into being successful on the track.

I personally think that Jr. simply got complacent when he went to Hendrick, as he thought he would not have to work as hard as he did before and that it would be easy. He and Steve LeTarte are clicking and Jr. is seeing all the hard work and effort pay off. Keep running near the front and the wins will come.

[Wanderer]

You can, but it has never happened in NASCARs top series. Reality????

Matt Kenseth...

Nice whizzing match you guys have here.

[&JAG]

The reason they didn't throw the caution at the green flag of the green, white, checker was that Jr. would have ran out of gas for sure. And for what your saying about throwing a yellow when they showed the white flag that wasn't going to happen since they didn't throw it on the prior lap. So your point has no teeth. Just another lame Jr. fan trying to protect a middle of the road driver... He will not contend for a Championship so get ready for more misery at the end of the season. Maybe some of you guys will make me a Jr. hater. It's really easy when someone is WAY overated

[LMITOUT]

Matt Kenseth...

Nice whizzing match you guys have here.

I believe he won one race that year.

[kbb]

The reason they didn't throw the caution at the green flag of the green, white, checker was that Jr. would have ran out of gas for sure. And for what your saying about throwing a yellow when they showed the white flag that wasn't going to happen since they didn't throw it on the prior lap. So your point has no teeth. Just another lame Jr. fan trying to protect a middle of the road driver... He will not contend for a Championship so get ready for more misery at the end of the season. Maybe some of you guys will make me a Jr. hater. It's really easy when someone is WAY overated

Very well said!!!!!!!

[RiverFish]

Wanderer,

What year did that happen? Check some references.......

[harvey lee]

The reason they didn't throw the caution at the green flag of the green, white, checker was that Jr. would have ran out of gas for sure. And for what your saying about throwing a yellow when they showed the white flag that wasn't going to happen since they didn't throw it on the prior lap. So your point has no teeth. Just another lame Jr. fan trying to protect a middle of the road driver... He will not contend for a Championship so get ready for more misery at the end of the season. Maybe some of you guys will make me a Jr. hater. It's really easy when someone is WAY overated

I started this thread stating that so far, Jr has had a pretty darn good year.

I do not believe I stated that he was going to be the champ.

At this point with the team running so well, how can you be so sure he will not contend? To date, he and his team have done what is needed to be a contender and is only 10 points out of the lead.

I would say, even with some luck, most drivers if not all other than Edwards and JJ would love to be where Jr is in the standings at this time. If that is aveerage, then many are exactly that.

Noone can predict the final standings but if he continues to get better, he could make the Chase and do well.

Only time will tell.

[gregg52]

would say, even with some luck, most drivers if not all other than Edwards and JJ would love to be where Jr is in the standings at this time. If that is aveerage, then many are exactly that.

i think the only thing the 48 cares about is being in the chase then they take of business...i'm sure they would like a few more wins but if not they will be the team to beat i think

dont really like it

buts thats the facts !!!!!!!lol

[HOF#13]

Just another lame Jr. fan

That's all you can come up with? My points were, and are, valid. It is painfully obvious you are just here to stir the pot. If you posted here with any amount of regularity over the last few years, you would know I have no problem being critical of Jr. or any another driver when deserved. Heaven forbid he gets any credit when he does something right.

Your right though....There MUST surely be a NASCAR conspiracy to benefit Jr. I can't believe us "lame Jr. fans" haven't seen it before you pointed it out. It is so obvious...I mean NASCAR has helped him to miss the chase the last 3 years, and has also helped him to not win in 108 races. Gosh, I wonder what else NASCAR is doing to help him?

Using your logic, it's more likely NASCAR knocked the valve stem off Denny Hamlins car late in the race last weekend so he had to pit, thus giving Jeff Gordon the win.

[&JAG]

Hey, it's really hard to help a case like Jr. even for NASCAR.

Stirring...

[HOF#13]

You are stirring very well my friend....

[harvey lee]

Hof, it just bugs some that Jr is doing so well this season so they feel they have a need to slam him.

They really do consider Jr a good driver this season but they cannot admit it.

Plain & simple.