What's up with folks targeting closed spieces

[Shack]

Quote:

dtro, I disagree with the gist of your post, which seems to be "If the law is inconvenient, it's bad and we should change it."

I think that a closed season to (ideally) prevent added stress on gamefish during an already stressful time is a good thing. I like having a dependable fishery, and I'm willing to forgo fishing when the population is breeding and trying to recover from a lean time (winter) in order to safeguard it.

Is closing the season totally necessary? I really don't know, I'm not a fisheries biologist. Am I willing to cool it for a couple of months and concentrate on other things? Yep. I can deal with not being able to do exactly what I want, when I want.

The Minnesota Opener:

"It celebrates the kick off of the summer tourism season. The special partnership [amongst the state's resort industry, media, and public officials] continues today with a promotional focus on a host community as well as recreational opportunities statewide. Fishing is not forgotten, and is clearly still the main promotion of the event."

The Opener provides the host community with an opportunity to highlight local fishing and other recreational activities, attractions and other points of interest. Media from throughout the region attend the event, resulting in significant publicity for the host community and Minnesota.

In the life span of a closed season and then Opener, protecting a portion of spawning walleyes has only been recent.

Quote:

This year's fishing opener is May 14.

In the months before the opener, the DNR sells about 250,000 of the 1.3 million angling licenses sold each year. In the first two weeks of the season, anglers catch about 40 percent of the 3 to 4 million walleyes harvested in a typical year. Many head for the state's most popular walleye lakes-Mille Lacs, Leech, Winnibigoshish, and Cass among them. On their way, anglers crowd highways, restaurants, gas stations, resorts, campgrounds, and boat launches, collectively spending between $3 million and $5 million over opening weekend, according to estimates of tourism officials.

http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/volunteer/mayjun05/openingday.html

Really the only evidence "fairly" easy to find that supports your "non" being selfish theory was this:

Quote:

Minnesota's general fishing opener is the Saturday two weeks before Memorial Day weekend.

Why? Three main reasons:

It allows most walleyes to spawn before being caught by anglers

It ensures that the opener is on a weekend, when most anglers can fish

This date ensures two full weekends for anglers and businesses before the Memorial Day weekend.

http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/opener/fishing/index.html

Seems too much money and that "what I want, when I want it" is the key driver behind the Opener.

I want the Opener memories and a reason to take off early for just fishing before the summer bustle starts I guess, but does this classify me any differently than having a view similar to Dtro's? Nope.

But until I get the power to change things, the law is the law. Of course this does not pertain to opinion, conversations and thoughts that may favor another approach.

[reinhard1]

what i have said, was said to me by enforcment in the dnr. i spent 3 days on the phone talking and wating for responses. [they are busy, but they did find enough time to talk with me, including one CO on duty at the time]. i would agree with you about throwing a spinner bait around in a bass/panfish lake before bass season opens however i said you would get a citation if the same was done prior to general opener. i would never do that for it makes no sense to use a bait such as that for crappie and sunnies and it would be obvious that panfish are not the object. that is the purpose of the law.

again, all i can say if there is doubt of what i am saying call a CO. they know if your intentionaly doing something your not supposed to. they are reasonable. they will give warnings, but they will also give citations. they [the CO's] have a lot to do besides looking for this. it would be interesting to see a record of convictions for this. i think if it's blatent and a guy has an attitude you get a citation. good luck.

[Shack]

In theory and given the human thought and being tired then moving on processes, not having an official opener might actually make some of those who "bust" out during these weeks less busting outish. Spread some of the impact out.

If we were thinking on the lines of PETA here (lol) What about all the stress being put on these poor little fishes who just spawned.

I am for conservation but!

[ANYFISH2]

Closed seasons are the problem. Have a harvest season and allow C&R the rest of the year. Problem goes away.

I completely agree with this.

Now I do not target out of season fish, because it is the law. Not because I am worried about the health of your fisheries. C&R have little impact. Our seasons structure is social and harvest based.

[Shack]

JUST for conversation sake and to clear up some misconceptions being stated:

Quote:

Definition of POACHER

1

: one that trespasses or steals

2

: one who kills or takes wild animals (as game or fish) illegally

So technically in the stated situations here, until a fish is brought forward dead or in the anglers possession beyond the definition of immediate release which was already stated, calling anyone or any person out as a poacher would be a matter of personal opinion and not as in the definition of the word "Poacher".

I have yet to to find anyone I have approach over the years tossing out what I "felt" is a lure directed towards a closed species refute or argue with me about the approach. I would say all of them just did not know and some even thanked me for informing them. My main reason is being nice and avoiding another potential life long angler from starting out with a game violation and saying the heck with it. This IMO has been more effective than involving the authorities and really waists less of my fishing time than waiting on hold and explaining all the details. I guess I get the same satisfaction that some do by making the call and performing that kind of civic duty, so for me having it may way, when I want it, this would be a trade off. A trade off that is keeping a fisherman, fishing.

On the turncoat side of things and maybe selfish, but if I was to politely approach someone, they flung an attitude and kept fishing, I WOULD be making the call as part of my civic duty, but with a little get back.

[shortfatguy]

again i wish people would just call enforcement in the dnr. it would clear up a lot of things in this discussion. truth, your fishing for crappies and catch fish that are not in season and realeasing them. this has happened to me and most everybody. you were doing everything right. however if a CO was watching you even if you were using small baits for panfish and you kept catching bass more than panfish he would tell you to move to another area. if someone was in a panfish/bass lake and a CO was watching someone throw spinnerbaits around before opener [i mean general opener] he would give you a citation. if on the same lake after the opener but before bass season and there are pike in there he would not give that person a citation but maby watch for awhile to see if the angler kept a bass.

in rivers it's different. i have people say they saw people use sucker minnows in the mississipi river before season. that would be ok because catfish are open year arround. however if that same person started to catch smallies and not cats the CO would tell that person to change baits or move to another area. all of this was told to me by three separate enforcement officials.

it's all about common sense. complaining about someone taking a picture of a prized fish and then quickly releasing it is bogus. i dont know how many bass i have cought while using a flu flu and eurolarva for panfish. you dont need catch and realease seasons if you follow the law. those that want to get cute and push it will be lighter in the wallet. go out there and have fun and enjoy the day. nobody has to worry if they have good fishing ethics. good luck.

So you are telling me that if I was sitting on the river bank fishing for suckers with night crawlers and a CO saw me catch a few walleyes and season wasnt open, he would tell me I had to move or switch bait? Well I wont write what I would tell him. And I have a hard time believing a judge would find me guilty of anything.

[Stick in Mud]

As it happens, I went out crappie fishing tonight and caught almost nothing but largemouth. Couldn't keep them off the line, and I moved around the entire lake...didn't want to catch the green buggers, but they were biting on a tiny pink and white flu flu w/a eurolarva on 2lb test and a ultralight panfish rod. Didn't keep one, and ended up stopping early b/c I was cold and a bit bored with fish I couldn't legally keep and wouldn't if I could.

Not that any of you care. I'd just like to state that I have enjoyed this entire thread....unlike many discussions of this kind, the folks on both sides of the issue are making logical arguments and aren't being foolish, insulting, dumb, or short-sighted.

Can I just agree with both sides??????

[simple1]

I think only certain fish are targeted mostly for sport and not food. I think most, but I am sure not all people that bass fish are more catch and release than walleye fishermen. I would not have a problem with bass being open year round to C&R. Really they only fish I think should have a season that is closed would be walleye, but that just my opinion. I practice C&R but do enjoy a meal once in awhile.

Simple1

[Ed Carlson]

Openers are tourism driven state models to strategically stager economic stimulus. They are by design, it's hard to not see that.

ND dropped openers except in a select rare few cases like the Paddelfish. In this case there is specific harvest management parameters involved and processing logistics. Controlling and managing the egg roe that is sold only by the state to raise funds for hatchery management of the paddlefish has logistics and timing issues. This practice all but eliminated the problem of poaching of the paddlefish for the eggs too.

In the end in ND they found people can manage there own time better than the state can, no need for openers. Dropping the openers saved the state money too.

Harvest impact is managed in a yearly manner and limits are adjusted to the particular system to best insure the health of the system. Any lake or stream that may require special management is handled individually.

MN is hard set on it's openers. A transition to a C&R season or a year around managed season is still a tough sell at the capital. Mostly due to they have that tourism dollar in there sights more than anything else. The DNR has to play politics too. So despite many in the DNR seeing other viable management models and options are there, they need to play the funding games like the rest of the agencies. Lobbyist for the various interests associated with tourism in MN set the pace and the capital sets the funding...it's tourism politics.

[DTro]

In the end in ND they found people can manage there own time better than the state can, no need for openers. Dropping the openers saved the state money too.

Harvest impact is managed in a yearly manner and limits are adjusted to the particular system to best insure the health of the system. Any lake or stream that may require special management is handled individually.

It makes too much sense which means it probably will never happen here.

[reinhard1]

as far as holding up in court, in the case you describe a CO would not issue a citation unless you kept a walley. if you had a mix of suckers and get a walley in between here and there, nothing would happen. but if your catching only walleys or mostly walleys it's his or her job to protect the fisherie. i'm not saying what you, as you describe, are doing anyting wrong. it was told to me that by chance if a CO happens to observe someone catching for the most part game fish out of season it is their duty to warn the person and tell the person to move or change baits.

i first called enforcement due to a question someone had regarding the use of sucker minnows where the rum enters the big river. common sense told me just to respond and say of course it's ok since i knew catfish was open year around and this person who asked the question was fishing for them.

but i wanted to be sure. so i called, left messages ect. finaly i had three responses from enforcment. they said if a CO observed this person catching mostly walleys and bass there the CO would tell them to change baits or move. i'm only stating what i was told. that was my answere to the individual who asked. this was prior to opener in april. good luck,

[Shack]

RH1 that IMO was the right thing to do. Calling the local CO or even TIP line with a genuine notion of any sort of game violation or poaching occurring is ultimately the right thing to do and the reasoning behind having these options available.

[pulleye16]

[DTro]

Who wants to fish for walleyes?

[pulleye16]

true-their are some species that one doesn't fish for during winter...Well, I guess that would be a bummer to have to wait 1.5 mos to fish then after the ice melts.

It bums me out I can hunt deer all the time either. Or shoot ducks during the summer months when I'm siting on the dock and the fishing is slow.

Why not do the little things like leaving the fish alone during the breeding time? Are we that selffish we can't a few months? No one here knows the impact battling a spawning fish has on it's eggs (the future of fishing). who cares what other states do? Every lake is different, some will do fine and others not so well. Maybe we can make the laws even more confusing by allowing certain lake open all year and some after lake temps hit a certain mark so we can assume spawning has finished?

[Craigums]

Who wants to fish for walleyes?

[DTro]

Try to shoot and release deer and ducks. Doesn't work so hot.

People assume that the only reason anglers want to go out early is to exploit some kind of spawning ritual, and while I'm sure there are a few bad apples, people just want to get out and spend time on the water learning more about their favorite fish, which in a lot of case could mean not catching anything at all.

I've been on the water a few times a week since early April and have a lot more skunks than not.

[Shack]

Why not do the little things like leaving the fish alone during the breeding time?

But what about those poor post spawn fish that are fresh off the spawning grounds, weakened by the riggers of spawning, only to be subjected to the on-slot of anglers coming to collect their 40 percent of the 3 to 4 million walleyes harvested in a typical year which are taken in the first two weeks after the opener? What about them.

A walleye just never gets a break, well maybe they do but the love dude! The love! These are our Mills Lacs Lake kittens man.

[pulleye16]

LOL...yes hunting was a poor analogy but the point is we have seasons to protect what we love. If you souly want to change something because of what you read/think/see other states do, then you are being mis-led. Maybe we have season cause we have more people out fishing? Maybe spawning is different cause we have winter? I have no clue but I what I do know is that fish need to reproduce for us to keep fishing and why not give "some" fish a chance to do this. We know we fish panfish all year and still have great #'s but we also have way more panfish in lakes.

I love to fish and why would ANYONE who loves the outdoors want to risk loosing there great fishing populations over 6 wks??? Maybe ity won't change, maybe it would but take this with a grain of salt: How many MN hunters would LOVE to see the mn deer rifle hunt be taken off the rut? Yes-it's different but WE NEED THESE ANIMALS TO REPRODUCE SO WE CAN KEEP FISHNING!

[pulleye16]

But what about those poor post spawn fish that are fresh off the spawning grounds, weakened by the riggers of spawning, only to be subjected to the on-slot of anglers coming to collect their 40 percent of the 3 to 4 million walleyes harvested in a typical year which are taken in the first two weeks after the opener? What about them.

yeah-if you beleive that quote your totally off the rocker!

[Shack]

Pulleye it is pretty much stated by the DNR, Gov's Opener official site, Star Tribe and other sources that the reason we have seasons and why they were started is to promote the sport and feature it via an "opening/opener", hence like a Grand Opening event at a store. Which in turn generates huge money for the Minnesota economy. That is and always has been the reason.

The opener is declared based more on it's correlation with Memorial day weekend than the walleye spawn. As stated by the MN DNR this is done so to ensure a fish able weekend for Minnesota Anglers.

I like to dig into things like this. My digging into it the last couple years pertaining to similar threads, I have formed my idea above from digging around on-line and making calls and sending e-mails. Not an idea I have just shotgunned out of the what granddad or the next door neighbor said, which is the norm with stuff like this. Yes, I do believe "one" of the more recently added reasons they justify the opener is to protect spawning fish (explain the trout season because I have no clue). There is way more open an obvious evidence and propaganda towards how good the MN Opener is for the economy and small business than there is on it purposely protecting spawning fish. I will dig a little more again to see if my un-answered MN DNR questions from previous years about the Opener being more for the fish than the money. They do tend to listen if you ask legitimate questions towards the obvious. Just might take them a couple years after sending off e-mails with the same questions.

[DTro]

I think you mean we need these fish to reproduce so that we can keep eating them.

We have many lakes that reproduce little if any and most fish are there because of stocking efforts.

Example, most southern walleye potholes, and a fair number of musky lakes.

The one area in which my argument has a hole is when there is still plenty of ice on the lakes and people a releasing fish caught out of 30FOW. The delayed mortality of these fish is very high and I would be concerned about that for sure.

But at the very least we could move all species to one common opener.

[TooTallTom]

But what about those poor post spawn fish that are fresh off the spawning grounds, weakened by the riggers of spawning, only to be subjected to the on-slot of anglers coming to collect their 40 percent of the 3 to 4 million walleyes harvested in a typical year which are taken in the first two weeks after the opener? What about them.

A walleye just never gets a break, well maybe they do but the love dude! The love! These are our Mills Lacs Lake kittens man.

[TruthWalleyes]

LOL, with the exception of slot fish, i bet the majority of fish caugth in the first two weeks of opener are harvested (Speaking walleyes)....The bucket mentality is just as strong on opener as it is on the ice.

[Craigums]

the reason we have seasons and why they were started is to promote the sport and feature it via an "opening/opener", hence like a Grand Opening event at a store. Which in turn generates huge money for the Minnesota economy. That is and always has been the reason.