Failed Both Inspections

[SkunkedAgain]

I had my first two inspections this morning and failed them both! Luckily they were little issues and it won't take much work to make the changes they asked for. The only thing that I'm worried will happen is that they will charge me extra for an extra rough-in inspection.

[JohnMickish]

Yes they will. You get one rough in and one final for the original price. Everything else is extra, as it should be since the inspector has to make another trip out there. Somebody has to pay for their time, might as well be the person they are going to see.

[chasineyes]

They never charged me for an extra show/visit. The only thing was I HAD to make time for when THEY were going to be in my area. Granted this was in 2005.

[MNice]

Our city never charges any additional fees, unless we go back 3 or 4 times for the same thing, without it being fixed. Electrical inspections done by the State I think is a different story. Depends on whose jurisdiction you are in.

[SkunkedAgain]

Thanks for the feedback. I guess the only thing that I can do is wait and see.

[BobT]

Yes they will. You get one rough in and one final for the original price. Everything else is extra, as it should be since the inspector has to make another trip out there. Somebody has to pay for their time, might as well be the person they are going to see.

Additionally, a lot has to do with what the failure was. For example, my neighbor wired his garage last week and the inspector was out yesterday. He had the receptacles connected but not screwed into the boxes so the inspector could see how he wired them. His failure was not in the wiring itself but in the type of receptacles he used. He wasn't aware of the latest change that required tamper-resistant receptacles so he has to replace them all. Fortunately, they were inexpensive and it's not a big problem. The inspector gave the green light to finish his garage and will be able to test the receptacles during the final so there will not be any additional fees invovled, assuming he passes his final and a third trip is not required.

Take heart SkunkedAgain. You did the work yourself and the fee involved is much lower than what you would have paid for a contract electrician. Chalk it up to a learning expreience and remember, even licensed electricians get cited for code violations. Nothing new.

[SkunkedAgain]

Thanks BobT. I know that I did almost everything right. For electrical, he wanted a deeper junction box in one spot and a tamper-resistant GFCI instead of a regular GFCI in my workshop. The big item was that he wants ground wires pigtailed to all of the metal boxes that I used. It won't cost much but I'll probably spend a few hours with that. Oh well. At least he didn't find anything major.

[BobT]

It may be true that he wants those things done but that isn't why he is requiring them. He's citing code violations. Metal boxes are required to be gounded and the tamper resistant receptacles are required in a shop per the NEC.

[SkunkedAgain]

Agreed

[BobT]

I have a related question for you sparkies out there. The code requires that garage receptacles must be the tamper resistant type. Does that include receptacles on the outside?

[MNice]

I'm 99% sure all 15 & 20a outlets have to be tamper resistant.

[LightningBG]

I didn't even know tamper resistant outlets existed. I guess I can throw away (recycle) the box full of extra outlets I have.

[BobT]

That's pretty much what my neighbor will end up doing. Can't return the ones he has for exchange since he bought most of them over a year ago and doesn't have receipts plus he installed them so technically they have been used. Fortunately, they were inexpensive. Just seems to be such a waste.

[jerkbait]

I am with Lighting. What is a tamper resistant outlet?

[bobbymalone]

pretty sure they are the ones that have a little shutter that prevents kids from sticking forks in the socket.

[JohnMickish]

pretty sure they are the ones that have a little shutter that prevents kids from sticking forks in the socket.

Bingo!

[BobT]

I haven't done the research yet but looking at one, without tearing it apart, I haven't figured out how they work. My guess would be that it requires insertion into both slots in order to open the gate so if a kid tries to insert a paper clip into one slot, the gate can't open. Do you know how they work, mnfishingguy?

[bobbymalone]

[MNice]

Our house has them, I would consider them a royal pain in the a$$. Sometimes you have to play a little to get things to plug in. We always taught our kids not to stick things in outlets, and they are better for it today

[SkunkedAgain]

I think that TR outlets are terrible for the human race. The dumb kids will stick a paper clip or screwdriver into a socket. The smart ones will figure out that it takes equal pressure on both sides, so those are the kids that will get killed. Why kill the smart kids?

While at Menards last night buying my new tamper-resistant GFCI, it was really tough to find the TR version. They had a million different kinds of outlets and only listed that they were tamper resistant if you read the side of the packaging. The electrical supply industry is such a racket.

[JohnMickish]

I think that TR outlets are terrible for the human race. The dumb kids will stick a paper clip or screwdriver into a socket. The smart ones will figure out that it takes equal pressure on both sides, so those are the kids that will get killed. Why kill the smart kids?

Unfortunatly you might be onto something here. I think kids where smarter when they had to figure out for themselves what hurt and what didn't.

Yes, it takes equal pressure on both sides for the gate to open and from what I hear, not all plugs have the prongs the same length so that can be a pain. I personally think it's a dumb rule but they don't ask me what I think before they make the rules.

[SkunkedAgain]

Well I passed both of my inspections this morning. It was a scramble to get some last-minute things done, but both inspectors were happy with the work that I've done so far. Luckily now I'm on to the phase that makes the basement look more complete - putting the wood panels back on the wall.

However, I have a question for some of you electricians out there. There are two completely separate circuits somehow being fed by one set of wires. One circuit controls the master bedroom/bathroom/hallway while the other one controls the kitchen lights/other bedrooms/living room lights/outlets. In my main electrical panel, these are breakers #12 and #13. What I noticed is that there is a black wire going to the #12 breaker, a red "traveler" wire going to #13, and the white to the ground bar. Is this some old-fashioned way of running two circuits up to the attic (for power distribution) without having to run two sets of wires? The only other piece of information that I know, is that the red wire terminates at an old, messy junction box in the attic.

[Surface Tension]

Good for you on the final. Now you'll not have to second guess your work.

Of coarse I'm not an electrician and am hesitant to say but to answer your question, yes that was more then likely the intent.

Question back at you is how many devices are on that one circuit?

Now I'll be corrected or you'll get an answer or both.

[JohnMickish]

To answer your question, it's called a "multi wire branch circuit". You have the two hots (the black and the red, the red is not a traveler) and one neutral being shared between the two. It was/is a very common way of providing power and saving cost by only using one neutral wire. This is legal and safe as long as the two hots are on different phases, IE; one odd and one even circuit number like you have.

[SkunkedAgain]

Perfect. Thanks for the clarification.