Looking for First Dog- Lab Advice Please!

[Cobber]

Good evening HSO'ers.

I'm looking to find the right hunting companion / addition to my young family this spring and I'm pretty set on a lab.

Here's where I'm in need of help:

- I want a female that when full-grown will be about 55 to 65/70 lbs

- I am focused about 70% upland / 30% waterfowl, but I want a dog that loves water.

- If the lab points, that is a huge benefit.

- I want all of the typical 'important' lab / bloodline things such as eyes, hips, joints, strong bloodlines, etc.

- I want a dog that is good with children (My son is just about to turn 1 year)

Now, I know that a lot of the above is depending on how I train / program the dog. However, are there certain things that I should look for or certain types of labs that I should look for? I've heard some about Chesapeake bay retrievers, flat coated retrievers, and obviously Labrador retrievers.

When I choose a breed, I know that I am getting a female for sure. So when I go to look at a litter, what are some things that I want to make sure to look for? As I said before this is the first time picking out a pup, and obviously it's a very big decision so I don't want to mess this one up!

Thanks for all of the help!

[Bryce]

All sold out on our litter that may have helped you. Sorry. You have a solid list of requirements. Pick out several litters and go look. Keep an open until you've seen all the litters. Then rush back to the litter that stood out to put down a deposit. If no litter stands out, I'd say start a new search. Good litters are very available right here in state if you keep looking.

Accept no less than your requirements. Both parents tested for hips and eyes and guaranteed. Both parents tested for EIC and CNM. Run from any litter not meeting those. Pointing is very low on list. Could be a whole other topic. I will argue that almost any well bred lab will stand game. I know most of our pups will stand game and have witnessed a few actual points. I personnally wouldn't touch a lab advertised as a pointer. Just my opinion but like I said, whole other topic.

[daylate]

I have purchased 2 labs. I believe it is important to buy a dog from good reputable breeder, not from someone who has a ad or something like that. It was important to me to visit the breeder. I was given a tour of their facility to check conditions and how their dogs are treated. I thought it was also important to see how organized they were and how well they kept the papers.

I also was able to choose a dog from a couple different litters.

I went to countryview in burtrum. I recommend them highly.

Good luck with your search!

[eagle_3464]

Cobber, how soon are you looking to get the pup?

I am planning to breed my YL female to a 3.5X GMPR. I expect her to come into season in a few weeks. She is a pointing lab like the sire to be and is very strong in the water. She is a strong marking dog and an excellent nose in the upland with a motor that will go all day. OFA hips good/elbows normal; current cerf; EIC and PRA clear by parentage; CNM pending/paternally clear. Kia's pedigree is packed full of APLA/AKC titled dogs and the sire is making a great name for himself. Let me know if you would like more info.

[Cobber]

Eagle,

I've been targeting sometime in May, however I am flexible with that.

I would definitely like more information-

Feel free to send me a PM!

Thanks

[Cobber]

Bryce, Thank you very much for the response- very reassuring to know that I have a pretty good set of 'baseline' requirements. Thanks for the great info!

Daylite- I will definitely be giving them a call, thanks for the heads up!

It's great to hear from somebody who has experienced personal success with a breeder.

Thanks!

[eagle_3464]

Cobber, not sure how to PM here but you are welcome to send me an email.

[caseymcq]

Cobber -

If you send me an email I could share some info with you.

[email protected]

[Cobber]

Besides the things that I've already noted, are there any things that I should be looking for or into that I may have been overlooking, even as far as things in regards to the breeder or anything like that?

Sorry for all of the questions- just want to make sure to get the best pup I can

Thanks-

[311Hemi]

Cobber, how soon are you looking to get the pup?

I am planning to breed my YL female to a 3.5X GMPR. I expect her to come into season in a few weeks. She is a pointing lab like the sire to be and is very strong in the water. She is a strong marking dog and an excellent nose in the upland with a motor that will go all day. OFA hips good/elbows normal; current cerf; EIC and PRA clear by parentage; CNM pending/paternally clear. Kia's pedigree is packed full of APLA/AKC titled dogs and the sire is making a great name for himself. Let me know if you would like more info.

Hey Brad, how goes it? Your Breeding Kia...to one of Davids dogs? How did she do this fall?

[eagle_3464]

Hello John, all is going pretty good. Yes the plan is to breed Kia but deffinately not to one of David's dogs. The plan is for 3.5X GMPR Trooper. I've seen him train and run in the APLA several times and can tell you he has good qualities that will match up with Kia very nice. I have talked with a couple of breeders that know Kia (and want to buy her) and who I have trained with, and their recommendation was Trooper or another dog out in Oregon.

Kia did really good this past fall but we didn't get out as much as hoped for due to our move to the Alex area. She pointed most birds that held and made some nice retrieves on difficult marks. How was your season with Dex?

[311Hemi]

Good to hear Brad.

Season here with Dex was good, but somewhat limited due to our new little girl. Still got out a number of time though. Definitely need some water retrieving/handling work....I have slacked on that and it shows when duck hunting, although he has only been duck hunting a hand full of times.

Dex did great pheasant hunting and is a hard charging dog, but I did not see much of any pointing out of him. Not a big deal to me....he's still a fun dog to hunt behind!

A fun season overall!!

[duckbuster]

Hemi, you certainly have a contrast in dog color there don't you? haha

As Bryce stated, you have set yourself up nicely with your standards, keep them high!!!

While it is different for me when picking a pup the same premise does apply to a certain degree. Once I have determine which litter I am going to go with I do the old Rex Carr thing, "pick your litter, close your eyes, reach in and grab your pup". Because it is such a [PoorWordUsage] shoot at such a young age, the scourge of the litter a lot of time ends up being the star of the litter but who knows at 6 weeks of age.

I will pick 3-4 litters from females and studs I like, because I know the dogs and generally the owners, I know what type of dogs I am looking at. In your particular case that might not be the case so you have to go on the honesty of the breeder. Myself, I would not go to a breeder that has multiple litters on the ground. I would try and find a solo breeder and ask if the dog has been bred before and could you please have some names of those owners. Make some calls and check to see if those dogs from prior litters are what you are looking for with size, confirmation and desire.

Lastly, I would say, RELAX, don't be rushed by breeders or by yourself. When the moment is right you will know it. You will know that that little black ball of fur is the next member of your family and you will love and care for it as if it was another child in your home.

GOOD LUCK!!

[Todd Caswell]

Perfectly said.

Hemi, you certainly have a contrast in dog color there don't you? haha

As Bryce stated, you have set yourself up nicely with your standards, keep them high!!!

While it is different for me when picking a pup the same premise does apply to a certain degree. Once I have determine which litter I am going to go with I do the old Rex Carr thing, "pick your litter, close your eyes, reach in and grab your pup". Because it is such a [PoorWordUsage] shoot at such a young age, the scourge of the litter a lot of time ends up being the star of the litter but who knows at 6 weeks of age.

I will pick 3-4 litters from females and studs I like, because I know the dogs and generally the owners, I know what type of dogs I am looking at. In your particular case that might not be the case so you have to go on the honesty of the breeder. Myself, I would not go to a breeder that has multiple litters on the ground. I would try and find a solo breeder and ask if the dog has been bred before and could you please have some names of those owners. Make some calls and check to see if those dogs from prior litters are what you are looking for with size, confirmation and desire.

Lastly, I would say, RELAX, don't be rushed by breeders or by yourself. When the moment is right you will know it. You will know that that little black ball of fur is the next member of your family and you will love and care for it as if it was another child in your home.

GOOD LUCK!!

[pureinsanity]

Here's where I'm in need of help:

- I want a female that when full-grown will be about 55 to 65/70 lbs

Look at the father and look at the mother, than you will get a general idea of how big the dog will be.

- I am focused about 70% upland / 30% waterfowl, but I want a dog that loves water.

Buy the book upland dog, or water dog. Read it, read it again, read it another time, and read it while you are training your dog.

- If the lab points, that is a huge benefit.

you're going to pay more for a dog that is going to point. but then you also have to train the dog differently than above. Labs will point if they know something is there but can't see it but KNOW it is there.

- I want all of the typical 'important' lab / bloodline things such as eyes, hips, joints, strong bloodlines, etc.

If they are hips and eyes certified you know the breeder is confident in the pups, and blood line.

- I want a dog that is good with children (My son is just about to turn 1 year)

That all depends on how your son treats the dog. When my dog was a pup my cousin would hold him in one place and not let him go. He might have done something else that scared the dog but who knows? It scarred my dog for life. 10 years later he still dislikes him, will bark at him, growl at him. My dog changes when my cousin is around. He has even went after him once. I can tell his mood changes as soon as my cousins sent enters a room.

[Todd Caswell]

Quote:

Buy the book upland dog, or water dog. Read it, read it again, read it another time, and read it while you are training your dog.

There are alot better modern programs out there,and basics are basics, both of those are pretty outdated, but main thing is to follow a proven program, Hillmans puppy program is really good and Fowldawgs 1,2,and 3 are very affordable and solid.

[drewevans]

cobber, i have a litter of AKC registered yellow and black pups that are 2 weeks old, at the moment i have a black male and a yellow female left for sure i have names on a black female,yellow male, and yellow female but if you were interested i could put you down as second or third choice in some cases in case of a back out. the mother and father are both great hunting dogs. the female is 80% up land and 20% water fowl, weighs around 55-65 lbs and the sire is mostly a water fowl dog weighing 75 lbs. i do not have my litter or parents hips and eyes "certified" though they have been checked for any of these problem and pass with flying colors, i also own the females father and he has sired close to 70 pups and "nock on wood" have had NO health issues, he is now 11 1/2 years old and the vet said this winter his eyes are just starting to get foggy, has not affected him in any way of not spotting birds or dummies yet though. the sires owner is also close with many of his relations and has had no health issues. my # is 507 421 7256, the sires # is 608 792 5134, i can also get you #'s of the mothers relatives owners and breeder if you have any questions you would like to ask them. the pups have their dew claws removed and will have their 6 week shots. they will be ready too go April 16, and will be old enough too hunt in the fall. any questions P.M. Me or call me.

[Todd Caswell]

Quote:

do not have my litter or parents hips and eyes "certified"

Any specific reason your breeding dogs without doing the proper health clearences first.?

[drewevans]

because our vets check them and tell us they are good and too get "certified" it cost money. when i bought my male he was garrenteed to have good hips if he didnt have good hips i could take another dog from the next litter well i think thats a bunch of [PoorWordUsage] then what do you do with the dog with the bad hips? i dunno i maybe am a little bitter on this subject i could go on for a while point is vet checked and says they are healthy no hip or eye problems, also i am in close contact with nearly 70 dogs that are directly related to this litter and not one of those dogs (nock on wood) has had a health issue. they range in ages from 13 to two years old. and the sires owner also has had his dog checked and is in close contact with many of there dogs direct relation and have had no health issues.

[drewevans]

also im not asking a fortune for my dogs. if i had done all of this then i would be asking more and people dont need to pay that much for a dog, im a firm believer that you can pick a dog up from the pound and get just as good of a hunting dog as if you spent a 500 to 1000 dallers. also this litter was breed because of a demand for dogs from the mother.

[Todd Caswell]

Quote:

because our vets check them and tell us they are good and too get "certified" it cost money.

As with most things in life it typically cost more to do it the right way rather than cutting corners. It's to bad AKC allows litters to be registered without proper health clearences. I'm not knocking your litter just your irresponsibility.

For the OP do yourself and your family a favor and stay away from litters that don't have there clearences.

[Chaws]

A regular vet doesn't have the ability to say that the hips or eyes are "good" unless they're a specialized vet optometrist or the dog has had actual hip x-rays done and the vet is a certified reader of such x-rays. Some vets will say the darndest things just to make some money.

Also, how about EIC and CNM? The parents both just have to carry the recessive gene to pass that along to pups and breeding carriers creates affected pups. One has no idea if the parents are carriers unless they are tested. Those two tests are all of $50 a piece and responsible breeders will do that small cost so they're not selling a puppy to a hunting family that could be affected by EIC causing the dog to not be able to be hunted due to collapse episodes.

Here's a couple videos, one is on how awful of a thing CNM affected pups are and the other is of an affected EIC dog.

Young dog with CNM.

EIC affected dog.

Here's an overall video on CNM and EIC.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aA5Y2_9r5Cg

[pureinsanity]

Cobber I do believe hips and eye certification is going to be a big deal. at least it is for me. AKC means nothing anymore when it comes to dogs. Anyone can sign up for AKC. You know someone who is confident in their pups is going to pay the money to get their hips and eyes certified....

[Jackpine Rob]

Maybe I'm mistaken, but it doesn't seem as if the British lines I have looked at have the same concerns about eyes, hips, EIC etc.

Any thoughts there from our in-house experts? (sorry for the minor hijack, but I'm kinda curious)

[Todd Caswell]

Maybe I'm mistaken, but it doesn't seem as if the British lines I have looked at have the same concerns about eyes, hips, EIC etc.

Any thoughts there from our in-house experts? (sorry for the minor hijack, but I'm kinda curious)

A little fact about CNM

Regarding numbers of CNM carriers in the UK and other countries ---- yes we are finding quite a few carriers and have worked with affected CNM litters in the UK. We work with a total of 18 countries and there are no countries, so far, without CNM. I do not know about EIC and other DNA identified diseases.

Related to this, The Alfort School of Veterinary Medicine is the only official laboratory globally for testing CNM. The research team at Alfort headed by Dr. Laurent Tiret, identified the CNM mutation and developed the specific procedure for searching a canine’s cell to find if the mutation is present. While the genome location and name of the mutation that causes CNM has been published internationally, the specifics unique to the step by step procedures and precautions to identify clear, carrier, and affected status have not been fully published. No other laboratories have been given the full details on testing procedures and the important reliability measures. Therefore, it is much too easy for other locations, in all countries, to make errors.

The most common error by others is to identify a carrier as clear. We are currently helping several breeders that were provided bad information from testing done at “for profit”, discount, and unapproved locations. Sadly the mistakes do not show up immediately but are found in tragic litters a generation or more later. It is always best to test with the research scientists who originally identified the mutation that causes a given disease, no matter what the disease is. The original researchers know the most about the disease and how to reliably test for the disease. They also actively work on the disease and its mechanisms that will help find relevant therapeutic strategies in the future.