Major decision being made on MN bear hunting!

[pulleye16]

I agree with you skunkedagain. I'd never side with the PETA folk but this has nothing to do with anti-hunters. It's for research. The ONLY problem I see with this would be if they started tagging hundreds and hundreds of bears. The DNR should put a limit on to how many bears can be collard.

[jkcmj]

Skunked, glad to clarify for you!

The bear research in question is not "research" at all. They have, in the past, compiled a great deal of interesting research data, but from what I have seen, research is no longer what the organization is about. The mission of WRI and the Bear Center is almost all about education at this point. Videos, den cams, etc that record some minor information that is irrelevent when it comes to bear biology, mating, and survival is of little help to the world, unless by "helping the world" you are referring to entertainment aspect??

"Selfish Ends" - Lynn Rogers, at age 71, has indicated that he is to old to "start over" with a new group of bears. He is now insisting that protection is necessary for his bears because of his age, and the fact that some of the more cooperative bears he is now working with could be killed and he does not want to have to wait for another easy going bear to come along. The easy going bears make for good BBC footage, which in turn, brings popularity to Lynn, the center, and huge funding for his ongoing efforts. Lynn Rogers has been able to raise nearly 1 million dollars in the last year, much of which will be used to expand operations and pay salaries to those involved. ON the Lily facebook sight, they are now talking about even hiring a lobbyist on their behalf. Who does this benefit? Lynn's cabin is located in the middle of Eagles Nest Township, right off of Trygg Road. The area is surrounded by private and public lands. These lands are owned and used by people who both hunt and not. Those who hunt have as much right to the wild game in that area as those who do not. Do not shoot animals on your land if that is your desire, but you should not be able to tell your neighbor that all of the bears are yours, when he buys a liscence, pays taxes on his land, and follows the responsible game laws of the state.

Bag limits on Walleye are good, we also have "bag limits" on bears, which is also good. Now if Lynn had a cabin on your favorite walley lake, and was tagging all walley that he caught off his dock, and insisted they be protected because he had placed pretty pink ribbons on their dorsal fins, that would be an unreasonable restriction.

You cannot judge a book by looking at it's cover, but you can get a pretty good idea about what's inside by looking what section it's in. Bound to be fiction if it is in the fiction section at the library. Look at where Lynn and WRI are sending followers to sign the petition. The Care2 HSOforum is an ultra liberal leftist anti-hunting, anti-gun, organization designed to get all of the folks who would love to ban bear hunting to sign petitions and become active against hunting of all sorts. Don't believe me, look it up for yourself. I listed several anti-bear hunting organizations that Lynn works with earlier in this thread, I hope you took time to check them out. Rogers and WRI have been a lot more careful in recent months to clean up what is portrayed on their websites so they are not marganalized with the ant- hunting nuts, but take a look at what "section of society" they are aligning themselves with and you should be able to figure out what is going on in the big picture on this.

I have no issue with them continuing to educate folks, and even to collar a limited number of bears, but if they continue to try destroying our hunting heritage, and how we manage game in the state of MN in the process, then I say they DNR should put a stop to all of it by pulling the permit.

Anything else you want clarifyed, just let me know.

[Muthagoose]

jkcmj.... Well Put..............

[pulleye16]

Okay...how many bear are collared? sounds like 9-14???? Really? You can't go find another bear to shoot?

Thats like .2% to .3% of the bear in MN (a quater of 1 percent). 1 out of 400 bears.

[jkcmj]

Just to save you some time in looking at where Lynn Rogers,WRI, and the Bear Center are heading with all this, just take a look at the links provided by the Bear Center itself:

http://www.bear.org/HSOforum/live-cameras/helpful-links.html

Here is a quick list of the most anti-hunting of them for you, including the most militant, best funded, anti-hunting organization of all, HSUS:

http://www.savenjbears.com/nature.html

http://www.aplnj.org/Black-Bears.php

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/protect-research-bears-from-hunters-in-minnesota/

http://www.savebears.org/

http://www.wspa.ca/

http://www.humanesociety.org/wildlife_abuse/campaigns/

[jkcmj]

Okay...how many bear are collared? sounds like 9-14???? Really? You can't go find another bear to shoot?

Thats like .2% to .3% of the bear in MN (a quater of 1 percent). 1 out of 400 bears.

Once again, big picture Pulleye16, big picture!

Yes I can go elsewhere for now... but how about a landowner who has invested a significant amount of his life savings to purchasing a nice piece of hunting ground in eagles nest township, only to have Lynn take over the area's bear population and claim them all as his...Must he also go elsewhere if he wants to kill the innocent bears? Should Lynn have complete control over all other property in the area, even when we have a dense population of bears that can reasonabley sustain a higher hunter harvest than most anywhere else in the state?

By the way, WRI is asking that if a limit is put in place they be able to increase to 25 bears, for now...

"we are asking for is that radio-collared bears wearing ribbons be legally protected in the 9 townships between Ely and Tower, Minnesota. These towns are about 22 miles apart. For that concession by officials and the hunters, we would agree to limiting the radio-collars to 25 bears"

[Bear55]

These "scientists" might not be anti-hunting (doubtful) but they sure know how to rally a large population of anti-hunters to support their cause and that is why I have a big problem with them. When their study bear got shot last year they could have plainly stated that they where disappointed and but they understand that is part of a bears life. Instead they went running and screaming to the internet and fired up a whole pile of anti-hunters to run to the MN legislature to get their way.

What does Facebook have to do with bear research anyway?

[pulleye16]

What "big picture"???? You don't have to move! It's 9-14 bears! MN has a population of 22,000+ black bears....I WAS WAY OFF ON MY PERCENTAGE OF SHOTING A COLLARED BEAR!

It's more like 4/100 of a one percent! Thats 4 out of 10,000 Bears!

Even if it's in your own back yard there are more then just those 9-14 bear out their!

Okay, I'm done beating a dead horse cuase the DNR already spoke on this issue. I also hate they use the internet and make these bears to be like people and I even hate it more that the public comes down on the hunter that shot a collared bear. I totally agree with all those but we-as hunters-need to also respect someone elses ideas and they have rights to do things also to the states wildlife. People have ever right to do studies on our game animals we hunt just like we have the right to hunt wild game animals. the more you fight this the more they will come after you.

IT IS 9-14 BEARS OUT OF THE 22,000+ in MN!!!!!!!!!!!! RESPECT OTHER BELIEFS AS WE WANT THEM TO RESPECT OUR....AGAIN, IT'S PROTECTING 9-14 BEARS!!

[mrklean]

i think it more comes down to give them an inch and they want a mile, give them these few bears now, then that turns into 25 bears one year, then another 45 the next and on, then they want a 1000 acre area of state land closed to hunting for research. At least thats how i see it, i understand bear research is important, but when they make these bears out to be almost like people with facebook pages and how they went after someone for doing something that was legal thats over the line with me.

[buddha]

This is such a slippery slope. I also feel it's the same as mrklean, an inch leads to a mile and so on. I would let a collared bear pass simply to avoid the bad press on hunters but if this continues to spin out of control more bears will be collared and areas could be shut down to bear hunting. That site has support from all over the world and I bet the vast majority do not hunt or have no knowledge of hunting and that is a threat to all hunters weather you support Lynn and his bears or not.

[walleyefisher0990]

The Lily lovers have started a petition to send to a representative making it illegal to shoot collared bears, they are over 15,000 signatures on it.

[jkcmj]

Not to many people with 9-14 bears in their backyard in Eagles Nest Township, except those who are feeding them like WRI. It is not leagal to feed them all year, then hunt by those feeders, so your example is very poor. Those hunting in the area of the research are very likely to have collared bears going to their baits due to territories in the area being held by primarily collared bears. Therefore, you are in fact saying that, yes, they would have to move elsewhere if they cannot legally shoot a collared bear.

[walleyefisher0990]

Here is my thought this rogers has no affiliation with the DNR, the ones who manage our black bears. By making these bears illegal to shoot he is essentially saying that they are his bears NOT the state of MN. But they are all of our bears... He has his captive bears there at the Bear center...

[mrklean]

[MichaelSwan]

I wrote my reps and told them the DNR is doing their job and not make laws around a single guys study...

[DTro]

I just wanted to say to jkcmj that I enjoyed reading your posts in this thread and I felt I've learned a little more about this issue.

It seems like Mr Rogers started with great intentions but the "research" has evolved into something that is no more.

I'm confident to say that everyone supporting him isn't a "lefty kook" and those on the other side aren't all "evil hunters". Like most issues the real answer is somewhere in the middle ground and it seems like a fair compromise could be made.

Just because the Commissioner has deemed it legal to shoot them, doesn't mean that we as hunters are going to, or even need to. A little common sense goes a long way.

[jkcmj]

dtro, thanks for the kind words. I have long been a supporter of Lynn Rogers, but have always made it clear to him that it was a fine line he was walking, with me, and with many hunters. He chose to not just step over that line, but to nail his feet to the other side of it. Very disappointing after many years of cooperation and clear understanding between area hunters and researchers. Again, Lynn has operated on site for 20 years, and with the research bears being legal game nearly the entire time. The bears Lynn lost last year were marginal bears to his study. He only really studies one or two consistantly, (June and Lilly)and just monitors the others occasionally to maintain contact. Give him protection for 2 bears, that I can see, give him a permit and protection that essentially bans bear hunting in a 20-30 mile area, I think not...

[mrklean]

i was a little bored and was looking at the lily facebook page and reading some of the stuff, they stated that they lost radio contact with 9 bears and blamed it all on hunters. I guess if a bear goes outside the range and they lose contact that means a hunter must have shot it. For as much as Rogers has said he isnt opposed to bear hunting just not shooting the collared, they seem to jump right at hunters first and other logic second.

[Muthagoose]

Just like the bear shot last fall with the failed collar.The animal was clearly better off being harvested then dying a slow death.Ofcourse the hunter who shot the bear even tho the collar wasnt working interupted the study..

Was the well being of that animal taken into consideration? Is that what the Lilly Fans are willing to allow being it was a ranging male? All you saw on thier site was was someone shot another collared bear but LITTLE about what would have eventually happen to the animal had it NOT been shot.

Even tho they tracked it to a area as the batteries failed,they knew where it was feeding and did not attempt to capture/trap it. They also didnt not request assistance from the dnr to help and they could have.

BUT Then they would have brought light onto a failed liability. It just shows the neglect and the researchers intent..

Cull, Collar and Collect fan $$$$$$ should be the WRI's motto..

[SkunkedAgain]

This is a good discussion.

I'm not sure that everything is always being characterized correctly. Even if Lynn gets limited protection for lets say 15-20 bears in his study, I don't see how that be equated to "complete control over all other property in the area." That's a laughable comparison. Even if you want to just say that it's complete control of the bear population in an area, it's not necessarily true. I do read the research updates and while they do try to collar a few young males to understand their migration habits, they primarily only study females and their cubs. This isn't complete control over your property. I think you know better than that...and it's not a slippery slope. That's an excuse.

I'm in favor of allowing protection for a limited number of bears. I'm in agreement with Dtro's thinking that Lynn and the DNR can rationally come to an agreement about how many bears need to be in his study.

Quote:

they stated that they lost radio contact with 9 bears and blamed it all on hunters.

As for this, I can't attest to the validity since I refuse to join facebook. However, in all of the research postings I never saw the Bear Center blame radio signal loss on hunters. I could see some of the nutbag followers assuming that. The most I've ever read was worrying that lost signals could be due to bears that were shot. That's quite different than blaming hunters. Again, I feel that a lot of this gets painted in the wrong way based on feelings instead of truth.

[jkcmj]

Collars are supposed to have leather break aways to prevent entrapment of the bears. Researchers claim they will rot off before a bear is strangulated, but I have seen and heard of many cases where collars have grown into the bears skin, just as a dogs collar will if it is put on when the dog is small and the dog outgrows it. I think this is a bigger issue with cub collars than with the yearling or older collars where the bears neck is a little bigger at the start. When I discussed this with another state researcher, he indicated that the collars will grow embedded into the flesh if a bear's collar dies unexpectedly, but rarely will actually stangulate the animal, that is, assuming all collars have the breakaways and actually rot off the way they claim they are supposed to. Of course, the ethical thing would be to avoid collaring cub bears or yearling males that could disperse from the study area and allow the collar to cause issues.

The slippery slope issue is, unfortunetly, very real. Just as gun advocates will start with one or two cosmetic gun issues to attack, so will the anti-hunting crowd start with something they figure they can turn the public against, then they move on to one type of hunting after another..

[charliepete]

As a bear hunter I followed their site last fall. They certainly stir up a hornets nest. The young male bear that was shot was near McGregor. That's darn near 150 miles from the 'Research' area. We are not talking about a few miles or a few townships. We are talking about a few counties. By the time it was shot its ribbons had fallen off and I think it was shot from some distance in a clear cut at dusk. Even Rogers and company said it would have been tough to tell and didn't fault the hunter that shot it. Even still, I am glad the DNR hasn't supported a law that would make criminals out of honest hunters.

Turning these bears into dogs to cater to the animals rights nutjobs to line your own pockets makes me sick. Too bad the DNR didn't pull permit long ago so hunters weren't constantly threatened with a black eye.

Ron Schara's comments on this in the STRIB get me riled up as well. You would think a guy who makes his livelihood off hunters could stop himself from stabbing them in the back.

[HeviShot]

Research area? 9-14 bears being collared? Wow I must be the best bear hunter in the world because last year we had 4 different collared bears coming to our bait sites and I had even spoke to the researcher about them, explaining to me how many she had collared. I am west of Grand Rapids. Lynn Rogers is not the only one putting collars on bears. The bears in my area are being collared by the DNR.

[life=outdoors92]

i dont know if anyone said this yet because i didnt take the time to read all the posts:

so what if i hit a collared bear with my car? then what. people can shoot neck bands on geese whenever they please, no one thinks anything of it. and those are just as easy to identify. i have even heard reports of shooting radio transmitter waterfowl. those are easy to identify and no one seems to care

[Boar]

Very interesting read.