Whats OVERKILL to you?

[HandGunner]

okay i dont think theres such a thing as over kill, unless its a tank or a expanding 50bmg then its over kill but, everything else to me is not over kill

seen a few videos of whitetails shot with a 50bmg and they dont even look bad looks like a normal shot except for one video were the bullet must have been a high velocity expanding bullet because when the deer was shot the exiting side blew a large hole big enough id say to almost fit a bucket into the deer, rib cage and guts were hanging out or gone

maybe it just me growing up around large caliber handguns

i hear it from so manny ppl that our DsertEagle 50ae is over kill or our 460 S&W magnum is overkill.

some even say a 300win mag is wayyy overkill

to me the larger and more powerful the quicker it will drop the animal and the less they will have to suffer thru it.

so whats overkill to you guys?

a little harsh but im starting to think, Theres no such thing as overkill or overly powerful, just scared shooters

[troutned]

I think that "overkill" can come in several different forms. First, I agree with your comment about "scared shooters". Let me explain! I believe that any gun/ammo combination that recoils enough to make a shooter flinch, become uncomfortable, or otherwise lower their level of comfort is overkill. Being even the tiniest bit afraid willl tend to lower accuracy. If a shooter is not completely comfortable with their gun, accuracy suffers, increasing the chances of a poorly-placed shot. I feel that this scenario is overkill, but the numbers (caliber, cartridge, bullet-weight) do not explain it. It is as individual as the person behind the gun.

Also, I believe that the term "overkill" can be applied to a gun that is more powerful than average for a given game WHEN THE SHOOTER'S ACTUAL MOTIVATION FOR USING IT IS TO IMPRESS OTHERS WITH HOW BIG A GUN HE/SHE SHOOTS. I feel that there is little room in our hunting camps for this kind of mind-set. If you're hunting whitetails with a .375 H+H because it is the only suitable rifle you own, or because your grand-dad shot a moose with it and you'd like to harvest game with it just once for sentimental reasons, great. But if you're just using it because your buddies will be impressed, I'm not into that.

Finally, I believe that "overkill" can be applied to bullet selection. Select the bullet for the job at hand. There are a lot of bullets out there that are designed for large, dangerous game. The are generally found in the large calibers, again .375 and bigger. These are designed to go very long distances through very thick skin and very wide animals. Not long ago, and perhaps still today, some of these bullets were called "solids" because they were just one piece of metal that was not supposed to expand. On a whitetail deer, these bullets are going to punch through the animal, barely slowing down and releasing relatively little energy into the animal. A small wound channel will result, and a small exit hole will result. This is not an efficient way to kill (or track) an animal, and may very well do a poorer job of killing the animal that a more properly-suited bullet.

That all being said, I cannot comment specifically on the issue with regard to handgun hunting, as I have not personally done it, nor am I particularly knowledgeable regarding today's handgun cartridges or loads.

[TooTallTom]

troutned, I think you hit it spot on. It's kind of a case of overkill being in the mind of the gunholder, but that there are rifle rounds that are simply not going to be as effective on medium-sized game due to their design. A Mack truck is great for hauling freight, but not so great for a daily commute. And I agree 100% that caliber/ load should not be selected for its ability to make one seem macho.

The round (large or small) can only do so much, it is much better to have a suitable round in very capable hands than a huge round in hands that are counting on the round to do the killing. The killing is the shooter's job, not the bullet's.

HandGunner, did you make any decisions regarding your .223 handgun question?

[picksbigwagon]

I agree that the Macho-ness is part of it. If I had a family heirloom 375 H and H, I would take it out to deer hunt with it if the weather was cooperative, but I would probably make it a safe queen and only use it once or twice a year.

I usually deer hunt in slug area's and I have been toying with the idea of using a 20 ga. simply because it has less kick than a 12 ga. I am not a small guy but I think I could be more accurate with a 20ga, than my 12 ga. Problem is the cost of a rifled 20 ga browning barrel is steep....My kids won't shoot 12 ga slugs until they have their own 12 ga's...

I remember on a different HSOforum, someone used a canon, disguised in haybale blind and he shot a deer with was essential a buckshot load from a cannon. That was way overkill as it left the deer riddled with golf ball size holes, multiple holes, from that cannon shot.

[monstermoose78]

I am a big guy and I get [PoorWordUsage] at the range for having a muzzle break on my 30-06, but boy it makes that gun so easy to shoot all day at the range. My brother and dad have 30-06's as well with out muzzle breaks and they beat me up when I go sight in the guns. No such thing as over kill in my book. I agree with you guys about guys getting a big gun to make themselfs feel good, but how many of these guys get a deer year after year.

[HandGunner]

ToolTallTom- yea i have decided that a .223 is too small.

were we hunt its shotgun/handgun zone. a shot from our DE 50ae looks just like a shot out of my smoothbore with rifled slugs.

yes ppl will buy big guns for machoness but you cant really say were guilty of that since we have not had a unsuccessfull year so far and we are really actually looking to put meat in the freezer. the big caliber helps with taking down the animal quicker in my opinion, really tho were we hunt if you have to do a track job its going to suck since its all valleys and hills in SE MN so why wouldnt we want the deer to drop right in front of us.

i guess some people just have never shot a large caliber or really get what some are actually trying to achieve with a bigger caliber.

not sure of these success counts of deer taken but it shuld be close

Desert Eagle 50ae- 8-10 deer over the years of hunting with it

S&W 460mag XVR- around 6 deer have been taken with it since having the gun since 2006

Thompson Center Encore Pistol .308- baught in the year of 2011 and is eager for next season

next possible firearm is the new S&W 460mag XVR with the 14 inch barrel

DE and S&W is both my uncles but since he got his S&W we use his DE and i myself mainly use my shotty my dad carrys the DE but next season may be dif.

hunted with the DE when i was 13 with my pops by my side, was a amazing experience

[TooTallTom]

I don't think there's any correlation between whether a gun is being shot for its macho factor and whether or not a guy gets a deer with it. The two are unrelated (in my mind, at least).

I'm glad to hear that you're sticking with the .50 AE. It might be on the big side of appropriate for deer, but it's not way out there or totally unreasonable. And, provided you can shoot it well and consistantly, it's much better to be on the big side of the range than the small side if you're going after live targets.

[gunmunky]

No such thing as over kill, IMHO. I believe a .223 is plenty of gun for deer but I've also shot prairie dogs with a 458 win mag and a 460 weatherby. If the shooter knows his/her and the calibers limits, and he/she gets enough range time, any caliber is capable for most any game.

[klecker]

This isn’t so good if you clip a leg or any other meaty area. I have left it at home lately.

[LightningBG]

a little harsh but im starting to think, Theres no such thing as overkill or overly powerful, just scared shooters

Overkill is if you use a gun/bullet combination that ruins whatever it is that you're after (meat/hide/pelt/fur/etc).

[gspman]

You can't kill a deer too dead. Use whatever suits you. I'd use all the gun I could handle and still shoot safely and accurately.

[Loose]

This isn’t so good if you clip a leg or any other meaty area. I have left it at home lately.

My my what do we have here?

[DanOmite19]

Overkill is if you use a gun/bullet combination that ruins whatever it is that you're after (meat/hide/pelt/fur/etc).

+1

[mrklean]

50 cal on prairie dogs is a bit overkill for me

[gpalma]

I remember on a different HSOforum, someone used a canon, disguised in haybale blind and he shot a deer with was essential a buckshot load from a cannon. That was way overkill as it left the deer riddled with golf ball size holes, multiple holes, from that cannon shot.

Now for the real story, LOL. The multiple holes were a real good photoshop job. That is precisely what he told the 2 DNR officers that showed at his door, questioning him. He told them he could add more holes to the deer photo if they would like. They spent a lot of time looking at their shoes during their investigation and left with nothing except slightly damaged pride, LOL. It was a hoax story. He also has a story of using a howitzer to hunt feral cats and it is equally as real.

That said, what constitutes overkill?

Overkill is what the bullet does after it passes through the intended target.

.

[swamptiger]

Quote:

Overkill is if you use a gun/bullet combination that ruins whatever it is that you're after (meat/hide/pelt/fur/etc).

I'd agree with this assessment, and add shot placement. I've seen what too many poorly placed shots can do to an animal. If the idea is to just waste the animal, what's the point?

[reinhard1]

probably the most important is shot placement and proper caliber for what your after. i proccessed deer on the side for ten years and was amazed at the number of multiple shots on one animal. had to be done while the deer were running, something i dont do. i always took a picture of the deer after the hide was off with multiple shots just in case that person complained of not getting enough meat back. i showed the hunter the picture anyway when he picked them up to show the waste that happens with multiple shots or poor shot placements. good luck.