Did GM finally fix their coolant/gasket problems?

[jmg]

In my ongoing search for a different vehicle, I keep wondering if I buy another GM vehicle if I need to brace myself for another gasket repair job as I had to do with my 3.4 L. Impala?

Just wondering, since that was the only major problem in 133,000 miles so far, other than a transmission shift issue a few yrs. ago. Appreciate any info.

[aanderud]

You're lucky you didn't have the 3.8 in that Impala -- you'd also have to worry about the cracked intake manifold that all the 3.8s have gotten. (me included). I'm going to say that the Impala I have is the worst vehicle I've ever owned. It's funny that you mention that the engine and tranny issues were the "ONLY" major problems on the vehicle in 133k miles. Well, the engine and tranny are the only 2 components in the vehicle that ARE major! I can't see how GM can get away with making vehicles where BOTH major components fail in 133k miles. Friends of mine have over 250k miles on their Honda Accords without having to do huge repair jobs on engines or trannies!

The other kicker is the non-major issues with the Impala. Numerous sensor replacements, all after warranty expiration -- mass airflow, manifold absolute pressure, several thermostats, etc. Torque Converter Clutch solenoid (which GM turned into a major job due to their refusal to leave it easy to replace like it always has been). Catalytic converter clogged up somehow at 73k miles, should have been a free replacement but they messed with me on reimbursement for my mechanic for over a year on that, until they went into bankruptcy, after which I heard nothing. Extremely thin factory rotors (warped at 30k miles, wife driving vehicle at the time, not an aggressive driver who brakes hard, by any means). Oh, and don't get me started on their electronic theft deterrent built into the ignition system that they call 'passlock'.

I doubt that I'll make my way back to Chevy before I die...there are just too many other competitors out there with at least as good of quality, if not better. Heck even the cheap Korean cars are built better than the GM junk these days! That's sad!

[MJ1657]

Friends of mine have over 250k miles on their Honda Accords without having to do huge repair jobs on engines or trannies!

I have a gm that just turned 240,000 without a single major problem.

There are always some problem vehicles but it usually comes down to proper maintenance.

[Jeremy airjer W]

I have a gm that just turned 240,000 without a single major problem.

There are always some problem vehicles but it usually comes down to proper maintenance.

What is it?

Just because you haven't fixed anything major doesn't mean there isn't something majorly wrong!

[MJ1657]

98 Lumina 3.1 It has been a really good car. I put intakes in it at around 120k, water pump around 180k, and it got its first starter last Friday.

[jmg]

Airjer. What has been your experience w/ these GM issues? In a different post, you mentioned Equinox problems at about 40,000 miles. Still true even with 2010 models? Also, did GM ever admit that their "special" coolant was junk or were they just content to pay out money to class action lawsuit claimants? I was one of those, but I still think I should have gotten more than the $100 I got. Just wondering, since my vehicle search doesn't seem to include many GM possibilities any longer.

[bassmann77]

I will share my experience with my 04 Silverado. I had two cracked heads because Chevy's part manufacturer had really bad casting (Castech). This is a common issue with the 2001-2007 Chevy 5.3L V8. When I got the bad news, the mechanic said it was a real common issue. I researched it on the web and found many forums with over 53 pages of people having the same issue. I am in contact with Chevy right now, but they are resistant to reimburse the repair. For what I understand, and people can correct me if I am wrong, that the original Dexcool was pretty bad with the gaskets, but they have since made it better and are having less issues with gasket deterioration.

[aanderud]

MJ1657,

I have no problem saying that GM has made SOME decent vehicles. I had an oldsmobile achieva that I bought with 60k miles in 1997, and sold it in 2004 when I bought my pickup. I had absolutely NO issues with that car, even to the day I sold it...just replaced it with a pickup is all. I obviously thought highly enough of GM back in the day to have 2 in the garage (Impala and Achieva). But the Impala changed my mind on GM, and not ONLY in the quality department but also the customer service.

With the Impala, it's not a maintenance issue, the problem is that the 2001 Impala has some serious design and parts flaws, that's all. I didn't see in the maintenance manual anything about having to replace a mass airflow or manifold absolute pressure sensors at 80k or 105k miles. I didn't see anything about a suggested tune-up including an intake manifold replacement at 73k miles. And I definitely didn't see in the recommended maintenance manual that I should have to replace a catalytic converter after 80k miles. The beauty of the internet is that people can find out about the countless other people who have the SAME EXACT ISSUES with their vehicles, and it can become more obvious when it's a one-time occurance or when is an issue that's pandemic to a specific model of engine or transmission, etc.

Since the original poster here had mentioned very SPECIFIC issues related to his GM sedan, which happens to be the same model as the sedan I am talking about, I figured I'd post information that MIGHT be useful and is certainly relevant. How relevant is your experience of 240k miles with no major issues? Is this with a recent model GM sedan? My guess is that you're talking about an SUV or pickup, which shares virtually NO technology with the sedan as far as mechanical components and costs almost twice as much as a similarly trimmed Impala. This is just a hunch though.

[Jeremy airjer W]

98 Lumina 3.1 It has been a really good car. I put intakes in it at around 120k, water pump around 180k, and it got its first starter last Friday.

I hate to break it to you but the intake gaskets are a major repair!

[Jeremy airjer W]

Airjer. What has been your experience w/ these GM issues? In a different post, you mentioned Equinox problems at about 40,000 miles. Still true even with 2010 models? Also, did GM ever admit that their "special" coolant was junk or were they just content to pay out money to class action lawsuit claimants? I was one of those, but I still think I should have gotten more than the $100 I got. Just wondering, since my vehicle search doesn't seem to include many GM possibilities any longer.

Its not the coolant, Its the poor engineering. The dexcool in some vehicles will look like brand new after a 100k while in others it is nasty after 30k.

You think GM will fix a problem on the line, I don't think so. They knew about the intake gasket on the 3.1 and they came out with the 3.4 with the exact same gasket. They knew about the plenum issue with the 3.8 and they kept pumping them out.

Its to bad because just the slightest bump in quality would put them right up with the rest of the competition and then they wouldn't have to lie about being as good as there competition.

[MJ1657]

I hate to break it to you but the intake gaskets are a major repair!

Your idea of major and mine are different and I respect that.

[MJ1657]

MJ1657,

I have no problem saying that GM has made SOME decent vehicles. I had an oldsmobile achieva that I bought with 60k miles in 1997, and sold it in 2004 when I bought my pickup. I had absolutely NO issues with that car, even to the day I sold it...just replaced it with a pickup is all. I obviously thought highly enough of GM back in the day to have 2 in the garage (Impala and Achieva). But the Impala changed my mind on GM, and not ONLY in the quality department but also the customer service.

With the Impala, it's not a maintenance issue, the problem is that the 2001 Impala has some serious design and parts flaws, that's all. I didn't see in the maintenance manual anything about having to replace a mass airflow or manifold absolute pressure sensors at 80k or 105k miles. I didn't see anything about a suggested tune-up including an intake manifold replacement at 73k miles. And I definitely didn't see in the recommended maintenance manual that I should have to replace a catalytic converter after 80k miles. The beauty of the internet is that people can find out about the countless other people who have the SAME EXACT ISSUES with their vehicles, and it can become more obvious when it's a one-time occurance or when is an issue that's pandemic to a specific model of engine or transmission, etc.

Since the original poster here had mentioned very SPECIFIC issues related to his GM sedan, which happens to be the same model as the sedan I am talking about, I figured I'd post information that MIGHT be useful and is certainly relevant. How relevant is your experience of 240k miles with no major issues? Is this with a recent model GM sedan? My guess is that you're talking about an SUV or pickup, which shares virtually NO technology with the sedan as far as mechanical components and costs almost twice as much as a similarly trimmed Impala. This is just a hunch though.

I in no way shape or form accused you of not doing proper maintenance. It was a general statement. I was a parts manager and a service manager for many years and agree with you that some vehicles are prone to certain issues. There are also those vehicle out there that you just have bad luck with. I will say that if most people did a better job taking care of maintenance items they would not have as many problemss. It sounds to me like you have one of those vehicles that is a constant headache and I don't envy you.

The vehicle I stated is a 98 GM sedan with a 3.1. Very similar to yours.

[MJ1657]

You think GM will fix a problem on the line, I don't think so. They knew about the intake gasket on the 3.1 and they came out with the 3.4 with the exact same gasket. They knew about the plenum issue with the 3.8 and they kept pumping them out.

I completely agree with this. I had my ear chewed off on a daily basis because of intake gaskets, noisy intermediate shafts, wiper boards, etc... I believe GM puts out a good product but often times wondered what they were thinking on a few of these things.

[aanderud]

I in no way shape or form accused you of not doing proper maintenance. It was a general statement. I was a parts manager and a service manager for many years and agree with you that some vehicles are prone to certain issues. There are also those vehicle out there that you just have bad luck with. I will say that if most people did a better job taking care of maintenance items they would not have as many problemss.

Roger that. I agree with your general statement to some extent -- a TON of problems can be dealt with by just following the proper maintenance schedule. But as you say, some cars are just a constant headache.

The 1995 Oldsmobile Achieva that I bought for $5200 in '99 and sold for $2500 after putting on 100,000 additional miles was the best bargain I think I'll ever drive. That's 100k miles for $2700, and all I ever put into that thing was standard consumables -- gas/oil/tires/brakes/fluids/plugs/belts. I guess there was one ignition control module, which was cheap and easy to replace. It was going strong when I sold in '04. The funny thing is on my Impala I've spent MORE than the $2700 on just unscheduled repairs.

[Macgyver55]

Another funny thing is the 3.1 motor in that one, (if thats what you had) was the one with the intake gasket issue, and it was still "the best bargain you ever drove". Go figure....

[deadeye]

Another funny thing is the 3.1 motor in that one, (if thats what you had) was the one with the intake gasket issue, and it was still "the best bargain you ever drove". Go figure....

That one could have been a quad 4....

Anyway to answer the o-p's question I would not personally touch one of the new ones still. Even if the intake gaskets don't leak they have head gasket issues and love to crack the heads if you don't catch it in time. The transmissions are still a weak link too.

I have a friend that refuses to own anything other than a gm and its sad to say that he's shooting himself in the foot with each car he gets. I tell him to get anything else and he will have better luck but each time he says the new ones are rock solid. Each time that is a fail. Intake leaks, electrical issues, sensors, transmissions, suspension stuff ect. Now he's in a Aura with 40k and has transmission issues (it is under warranty but its the 5th gm fwd transmission in 3 cars hes gotten problems with). His father in law got a new 10 impala and has had problems with only 20k. They say I was a fool for getting rid of my last chevy....

its really sad too because my first car was a chevy and it had 300k on it and never had a problem, I loved that truck but had to get a new one cause of rust issues. My last one needed something done almost every month while I owned it. Sort of frustrating when my first one was so good to me.

[Macgyver55]

For every story that someone has there is another one telling the opposite. I've been a mechanic for over 35 years, I currently have 2 Chevrolets after having previously owned 5 others before that, and I dont feel like I've shot myself in the foot yet. I'd compare my cost of ownership with anyone. I couldnt be happier with the 06 Impala she currently drives, and my Avalanche has had one wheel hub and bearing assy and rear brakes so far in 130000 miles. In 72,000 miles, the Impala has had 2 tire pressure monitors and a power steering hose replaced (under recall). Thats it...not even a check engine light on either one yet. Not saying they are all that way, but how you drive them and care for them definitely makes a difference.

Or..... maybe I'm just lucky?

[aanderud]

They sell an achieva with a 3.1? Heck I had like a 2.3 litre in there.

Mac, it's good that you have good luck with the GM vehicles. Somebody apparently is (or was), otherwise they wouldn't be in the top 3 for US sales every year for the past what, 8 decades?

deadeye, I'm with you. While I used to be a GM guy, I'll have to become frustrated with every other brand before I give em another shot. The beauty of the free market I guess. So far I've moved to Chrysler and Hyundai. Thumbs up from both, but I only have 73k miles on the pickup and 58k on the Hyundai, and IMHO you can't really measure a vehicle's quality until you're in the mid 100s.

[deadeye]

I'm calling both. ... lucky and you take care of them.

My blazer that had 300k on it got no love from me. Oil changes and brakes. I drove it like I stole it. Nothing ever really went wrong with it. I did have the back window shatter when I closed it one day but it was -42 and I felt like it was cold enough to shatter.

The Chev I just traded in had more problems than I could keep up with. It was really frustrating because my first one was so good and I beat the heck out of it. This last one got driven gingerly and well taken care of. It was a bad apple I guess.

I guess my circle of people including me have just had terrible luck with them. I never wish bad upon anyone with a car cause I'm the one laying under it fixing it after being at work all day lol. It would be nice to say I didn't have to do that.

I hope whatever they end up with they have the best of luck with. I hope they are unlike me and have nothing but good stories.

[Jeremy airjer W]

Somebody apparently is (or was), otherwise they wouldn't be in the top 3 for US sales every year for the past what, 8 decades?

Here's what I see quite a bit. A customer gets beat over the head with repair bill after repair on whatever they drive. Then they decide its time for a new one and they buy from the exact same manufacturer. Brand loyalty is a wonderful thing when you build mediocre cars!

[Macgyver55]

Brand loyalty is a wonderful thing when you build mediocre cars!

How true, but definitely not just on mediocre cars, but cars of all makes. For instance my brother in law has has several serious problems with his BMW X5. Three times over 2 years it has left him sitting on the side of the road spewing oil broke down with the same problem. A few other problems and yet what does he do, goes and buys a new one not even considering others. My other brother in law, a real stickler for preventative maintainance, just had a connecting rod break on his wifes Camry at 98,000, but says he'd buy another because "its been so good"? A broken rod with 98,000 and thats been a good car? That ONE repair will cost more than any fuel pump, intake gasket, wheel bearing and more combined. Granted, its not the norm but at least face the reality that none of them are perfect.

I buy GM not so much for brand loyalty, but moreso because the greater part of my training was in GM schools and my company ran mostly GM vehicles. I know what to expect, what to look for, and they have proven statistically through our records that over time they are a good value.

[delcecchi]

So you zing Toyota over a very unusual failure (connecting rod breaks) and give GM a pass because of "statistics show they are a good value"?

What is wrong with this picture?

[Macgyver55]

So you zing Toyota over a very unusual failure (connecting rod breaks) and give GM a pass because of "statistics show they are a good value"?

What is wrong with this picture?

I dont know, why dont you enlighten me?

I didnt give GM a "pass", I only explained why I drive them.

I did however add that with thorough record keeping over hundreds of thousands of miles over many years, and by comparing them to other makes my company has tried over those years, they are a good value.

Is that a "pass"?

I dont know what criteria you use to choose your cars, but good value is right up there for me and many others I know.

By all means buy and drive what you want, at some point it will have a problem no matter the brand.

[PierBridge]

The GM intake gasket problems have ZERO to do with any coolant. It's an design issue.

The were/are made out of plastic with machined grooves on either side with a RUBBER seal in the groovs. The plastic in the center is only a 64th thick and from the hot and cold cycles they crack......

GM, supposedly, attempted fix of the problem was installing a metal pellet at the ends to prevent over tightening' heat, expansion and cracking of the plastic.....but they still FAIL......

After market "Felpro" has gone to steal gaskets covered with rubber end seals. They do not fail for the most part.

Haven't "my guys" seen any of those after market, correctly designed Intake's fail yet out of the many my shop has replaced over the years.

So anybody doing a Intake should ask for a steal gasket which I beleive comes in a complete set, but well worth it.

I love these GM bashing threads it's kind of like bashing the PC Windows users for every complaint about PC's or Gm's there are MILLION of us "GM,Microsoft" guys with perfectly working vehicles and PC's that will still pull your Yota's along with your cute little Macs out of ditch or off a lake.....

[jmg]

To all. I didn't know I'd open up such a hornet's nest with my question I posted yesterday. When my lower intake gasket failed a few years ago on my Impala, there was controversy as to the role of Dexcool. I'm glad to hear that it wasn't involved, since I still have it in the vehicle.

Seems like every brand of car has its proponents and opponents. I had a Sable with a head gasket problem, too, so I know it isn't just a GM problem. As I had said, I've had a few other problems with the car, but it has also been a very quiet, nice riding vehicle that's delivered 30 + mpg on the highway since we've had it. I just wanted to know if the gasket problem was still a big concern before buying another car. Still confused, but have time to sort it out. thanks for the input.