GSP not pointing

[mitch]

My 11 month old GSP is not pointing when she gets scent. I know pointing is instinctual and not something you train them to do. I didn't do very much work with birds before the season started because everything I read said wild birds were better teachers than planted birds. I have also made the mistake of shooting birds over her that she didn't point.

She knows "whoa" and has held a point for a couple birds this season, so I know she is capable of being a good pointer.

Is she on track or am I expecting too much from her in her first season hunting? What can I do this offseason to fix these problems or is it too late?

Thanks for any info.

[Todd Caswell]

There is an old saying goes something like this.

You can't make a bird dog without birds, and never expect something in the field that you haven't trained for. I'm a retriever guy but I would guess that some pointers don't point just like some retrievers aren't wild and crazy about retrieving either.

I would get your dog on as many " Planted" birds as you can in the off season and try to get her "bird crazy"

[mitch]

Thanks for the input. Don't get me wrong she absolutely loves birds, and she has come across a lot of them so far this season. She has also retrieved every bird shot to hand, it's just that the pointing part hasn't gone as well as I had hoped so far. I know the desire to point is there, she would sight point every bird we came across when I would take her for walks this summer. I just need help getting her to do it while hunting.

[reddog]

Im pretty sure you're reinforcing that she doesnt have to point when you shoot a bird that she bumps. There is a transition between bumping and pointing that needs to be established in a training situation. With you shooting, she isnt learning the transition or how hard she can push a bird.

Personally, I wont shoot a bird that isnt pointed if my dog is in the direct vicinity of the flush or working the bird.. If a random flush occurs that the dog isnt working, thats a different story, some days I shoot, most days I dont.

If she has pointed before, I dont think any permanent has been done, but I think youve got to scale back on the bird kill count, until she starts to respond. You have to put up alot of birds to make a dog. It wont happen in one season.

Hopefully someone with more experienc will chime in.

[Capt'nMorgan]

I have an 8 mo. GSP and wasn't expecting great things this first year, but I couldn't be happier. In August I got her on a farm with alot of quail and got her all jacked up on birds. When Pheasant opened she hunted good but would bump birds, but the more birds she found the better she got. She now points very well and holds it. One thing I did in the field was after she bumped a bird I picked her up and set her down in "point" position and say whoa whoa, so she could associate the two together. Just get her on as many birds as you can, she still young she'll learn.

[Acemac]

think the key here is "11 months old" and "I didn't do very much work with birds before the season" sounds to me like your puppy did pretty darn good!

[setterguy]

1.) Stop shooting birds that are not pointed.

2.) Buy, borrow, or steal some remote launchers. Get your hands on some birds and start from scratch. Set the launchers out with the dog on a check cord. Bring the dog in cross wind, and as soon as you know that dog smells that bird, launch it. All the while holding slight tension on the check cord. Soon she will learn that if she doesn't stop that bird will fly away. As soon as she starts pointing without tension, you can start trying to get her to hold longer and longer, but any movement from the point should result in a launched bird.

3.) I'm not a big fan of whoaing (thats not a word) dogs into a point. They are relying on you to find the bird, and not their nose. You can whoa her WHILE on point, but only after she established it herself.

4.) Wild birds are a great trainer, if and only if you and everyone in your party are willing to let birds fly that aren't pointed. Some dogs pick it up right away and some take a season or two to get it. Don't give up. If she has the right breeding its in there, just needs to be worked to the surface.

[kentuck_ike]

If you live are in Albert Lea during the summer I hope to have a training group at my place in LeRoy a couple Saturays a month. I have everything needed to work on this.

[Lip_Ripper Guy]

I've not trained any pointers, but I would think that at 11 months the natural traits should be very apparent. It may not be a bad idea to contact a trainer that specializes in pointers...I bet it'll be an easy fix.

[brittman]

Does the GSP come from solid hunting stock?

You have to start with a pointing dog to get a pointing dog.

The last four Brittanys that I have owned have pointed on the 1st wiff of bird scent. I also tend to say whoa only when dog is already on point ... although I may whoa them once in awhile just to get them "thinking".

Nothing and I repeat nothing wrong with training on planted birds or released preserve birds.

Most professional trainers use pigeons (lowest cost) and many often put them in throwers ... about as planted as one can get.

If you want to similate wild conditions a little more make sure released birds are not "rocked" or "put to sleep" to hard or give them time to start moving around in cover.

That said planted birds that do not run offer the best chance for pointing dogs to do everything right.

Transition to wild birds is then about putting the classroom to real world ... every day will be different. Some good, some not so good, some days to remember. Same can be said on you decision on what land to hunt or your shooting that day or ........

[mitch]

Thanks for all the input guys. I'll try some of the things you guys mentioned this offseason.

kentuck_ike I tried to make it to your training get together last summer but it just didn't work out. I'll try to make it this year.

[Pinusbanksiana]

Lots of birds is what you need. Pre-season is best when you leave the shotgun at home.

[baumab]

mine did same thing and he has gradually gotten better as the time passes. he will be 2 this yr and he did the same thing last year that youre having problems with. I worked with him a bit here and there during off season and he slowly picked up on it this season and has been pretty good as of late...so just give it time and get her out as much as you can on live birds, i have never not shot live birds that he didnt point and he still figured it out on his own...good luck

[iceman2010]

Im kind of starting this topic back up again after looking through some old posts, my GSP 7 months, is not pointing, and never really has. I have looked on various websites and many say that you will see your dog point out birds, and bugs, and basically anything that moves. So far my GSP has never pointed anything. She has yet to be hunting, so there hasnt been an opportunity to point out a real game bird yet but Im just looking for suggestions, or if I should be concerned at all.

[korn_fish]

ice - does your dog chase things? Try a dry pheasant wing on a pole.

See this link for a good example of what not to do with this method.

You will see the pup here catch the wing. This should NEVER happen. This training is supposed to do two basic things. Help with the prey drive (get them excited for wings/birds) and 2 - teach them that they can not catch the wing. Basically, if the pup chases the wing, and can not catch it, they will stop to 'think' on how to catch it. That stoppage is the start of pointing. All animals have a pointing instinct including humans. Think about a cat freezing before it pounces on a mouse or how a human momentarily stops before they swat a fly.

If the pup ever catches the wing, however, you are instilling the opposite behavior that she can just bust in rather than pointing.

[DIESELDAN]

I think every dog is different my gsp points very well with almost no training. I probally just got lucky. In fact she seems to know better than me, we were hunting near a barb wire fence once and she went on point just on the other side of the fence, I was kind of tired from walking so I just said get um a couple times but she wouldn't move so I climbed over the fence and flushed the bird [which ended up being two hens] and after she got a good praising for not listening to me. By the way I won't be doing that anymore I don't want to mess up a good dog.

Diesel Dan

[rundrave]

I think every dog is different my gsp points very well with almost no training. I probally just got lucky.

I dont think luck has anything to do with it. Expecting your dog to point is not to much to ask of any of the versatile breeds. If a breeder cant promise a great nose and point with natural honor and retrieve I am looking for a dog from somewhere else.

[Acemac]

if your dog has never been on a bird and it does not point I would not worry to much. get some birds dont let your dog sight point a wing on a string.

[LightningBG]

ice - does your dog chase things? Try a dry pheasant wing on a pole.

See this link for a good example of what not to do with this method.

OMG - what are they doing?

[iceman2010]

Just wondering but why not sight point a wing on a string? Is there anything I can do in the meantime before I can get her on some birds.

[gspman]

The wing on a string is really not going to help much. How many times have you seen a dog sight point when hunting. The dog needs to learn to use it's nose and point when it scents a bird. When everything thaws out, get that pup on some birds. If you really want to do the wing on a string make sure the pup does not catch the wing. Keep pulling it away and putting it down until the pup points it. If it points the wing that's great, if it doesn't that's fine too. Praise the dog while it is pointing and then put the wing away and don't use it again. Wing on a string tends to be more to make the dog owner feel good and less to teach the dog anything. People get carried away with it and then undesireable things can happen. By the way you don't need a wing either. A couple strips of cloth will work just as well.

[Turbodog]

I have a two year old Gsp Dumber than dumb around the house but hunts like a champ once he's in the feild! I got him to a perserve before he was a year old i belive he was 7 months at the time and was not pointing very much bought 9 birds he found 10 and pointed all of them!Give it time let the dog be a dog if he/she is a pointer they will point!

[LightningBG]

Another thing, once they start to point...

If you use a launcher at all. Once they are on point hold there and slowly move into the bird. If they start to move in on the bird (break point), launch it. You want them to know, that if they move in on that bird its gone.