Shredded brush "rubs" and antler size

[lakevet]

Saturday had the boys out and we came across finger diameter thickness clump of young hazel brush that had been totally trashed by a buck. Had main stems still intact up to about 18" high. Attached to those were strings of short broken pieces of stem connected by a thin strip of bark on one side. Pieces ranged from 5" to 9". This brush was originally about 4 ft high. and no this was not a bear, too young to have any hazelnuts yet.

I usually assume this is the work of a mature buck (actually scrape and tracks nearby support this). However, having seen a spike make a rub on a 14" diameter tree, I am not always convinced that a rub on a large tree is a big buck. So, I started thinking maybe a small buck/spike may do the brush shredder deal too. But can a small racked buck trash/snap off into smaller pieces brush and small trees? It seem it would take them alot of neck twisting to do that. Has anyone watched a small buck/spike totally trash a clump of brush? What is the minimum sized rack needed to shred a clump of brush? Prefer eyewitness accounts.

thanks,

lakevet

[Bear55]

Maybe not a spike but a basket 8 is certainly capable of snapping off small trees. However in your situation I would guess its a larger deer if you found nice tracks in the area.

Also a spike may have visited a large or even what might be called a community rub but I doubt he was the one who made the original rub on a tree that large. They are rare but I have heard of bucks rubbing certain trees all times of the year (maybe not velvet) as a kind of social/scent marker.

[matchset]

Tracks, Tracks, Tracks!!! Big bucks rub little trees; and little bucks do rub big trees!

The size of the track is indicative of the body size/age of that particular deer.

[96trigger]

I look for tracks also, I also look for scrapes and distance between tines in the scrape. A little deer can make a big rub, I don't pay much attention to rubs, only that they are an indication that a buck has been there.

[Musky Buck]

Since 1983, big rubs have equaled big bucks, small rubs small bucks. Now my trailcam has been proving the same thing. But, poorly rubbed big trees I think is mainly a small buck picking on the wrong tree, big clean lenghty rubs has equaled I better buy an antler plaque as there is a shooter in the neighborhood. Same with ground scrapes, small = small big clean scrapes have = big dog. But best scrapes are those made from Halloween on, I mainly scrape hunt big scrapes and the years I connect it's a big guy. I won't hunt a small scrape but often times can see it from my stand and it's always at least in 27 years been a yearling telling me hunt elsewhere because a big breeding buck won't want a runt around where I hunt, dad 40 years same theory, but it might depend on where you hunt, I'm back in a swamp with a large poplar island/highground in it.

[Bear55]

I agree with Musky that most of the time the big guys make the big rubs, the little bucks usually don't have enough "equipment" to really tear up a big tree.

I like to take a close look at the rub itself, smaller bucks tend to rub lower on the tree but if you have a big mature buck you will notice right away that the rub is a little higher off the ground. I also look for other details like deep grooves in the rub might mean the deer has some junk near his bases, or scratches in the bark above the main rub might indicate the buck has nice tall tines.