Black Cloud- Weird finding

[Rost]

My buddy was walking back to his blind and he found a Black Cloud wad in the wheat stubble. He picked it up and it was still 1/2 full of BB's! Seriously, it had to have 20 BB's still in the wad.

Any one else notice this?

[jigginjim]

I had talked with a few hunting guides, they tried black cloud shells. The biggest black cloud will be over your head from not hitting a thing, or lots of cripples.

[tweedlap]

They are a Federal product. I hope someone from Federal chimes in.

I would like to hear the engineers take on your finding; Rost.

tweed

[hunter322]

i tried black cloud last year and ill tell ya this, ill never shoot it again. federal is my fav brand but black cloud is [PoorWordUsage]. i rocked a crow at 40 yards, he cawed and feathers flew but he kept on flying. some people swear by it though and some say you need to get the black cloud choke.

[SmilinBob]

I have spent some considerable time shooting and patterning Black Cloud because of all these questions. It seems very unlikely that any round would keep half the load in the wad unless it somehow encountered moisture and rusted in place, even the flight control wad will strip away rather quickly, but not as fast as a conventional wad from the majority of the load.

BC will pattern much tighter than anything you have ever shot before, this is the reason people report so many misses, the cripples are likely just not getting a load of shot where it counts, a round pellet can pass through an animal without hitting a major vessel or creating enought of a wound channel to disrupt the neuro system, you see this in gut shot deer, and I'm a paramedic, I've seen it in people, and waterfowl are mostly lean muscle, which is more resistant to injury. I'm also willing to bet money that the vast majority of waterfown hunters have never patterend their guns with hunting loads, much less BC, due to costs and most just don't do it because they read what has worked for someone else and go with it. Patterning consists of more than one shot at a piece of cardboard placed a ways out, the standard is a 30 inch circle at 40 yards, however it pays to take muntiple shots at varying yardages, even up to 60 yards for goose hunters, I know a lot of guys, I'm guilty too, of underestimating range from a pit to the air. Now that we've talked circles, we need to discuss shot string, the pattern as it stretches. BC is going to have a much shorter shot string due to the slower release of the wad, a good way to get a feel for that is to place multiple small targets that won't fill the pattern at varying distances within a few feet of the preferred target, then watch the time of movement on those targets. Another way was published in the book "Shotgunning, the art and science" by Bob Brister, he actually pulled a large screen target behind a moving car to show shot stringing, I don't recommend this method unless you really know what you are doing, especially with magnum rounds, he talks trap and skeet primarly in the book. This shorter shot string is what leads us to leading birds. BC is a fast round, in the 1500 fps area, the typical trap load is moving 1000-1150, some get 1200 fps, there is a lot of difference in travel time there, especially when shooting at a clay moving 30 mph, of which most misses are low and behind because we don't lead enough and follow through. Unfortunatly the only way to practice with these rounds is to beg the owner of a range to let you, or have an automatic thrower of your own that you can simulate the proper ranges with, but the target is still moving about 1/2 speed of a bird in flight. Choke selection can by determined with these trials, or in reality you will find that there is way too much emphasis placed on this based on hearsay, get out and try a few rounds to know for yourself what works in your gun. So, in summary, BC will have a much tighter parttern, moving faster, and it all takes practice to get used to. Sorry to be long winded, but there is a lot of info to be gathered in shotgun shooting that never gets discussed, and it ain't cheap or easy on a shoulder to learn these things, and I do work in firearms industry, and I'm an independant, so I'm not trying to sell you on this, I do use it, but I use others too. The flight control wad does make the best turkey load though.

[candiru]

I have done well with Black Cloud BB shot for geese.

[tracker x-2]

Hey S bob have you herd of the new black cloud called snowgoose? I was talking to a guy at scheels about it and he says people are loving it. I guess it travels at 16500 Fps and weighs in at 1 1/8 oz. I have only used BC a handfull of times with mixed results wondering if this model is worth giving a shot it was only $17.99 for 25.

[SmilinBob]

I have not tried the snow goose yet, but it sure looks good. The guys at the federal tent at gamefair sure talked it up. I just got a case of the regular, so it might be a bit til I get to it.

[carpshooterdeluxe]

Rost, I had the exact issue happen with bc 3" 2's when i was patterning them 2 winters ago. i was shooting 4x8 sheet plywood @ 30 and 50 yards, and at 30 the wad was nearly passing through the 1/2" plywood. at 50 yards, the wad was dropping off at about 45 yards, and would contain anywhere from 3-10 pellets in the 1/2 box i ran through 7 chokes in 4 shotguns. Black cloud has failed to impress me. the theory is sound, but i have yet to see the bc loads do something that a tight choke and conventional load cannot do.

black cloud snow goose baffles me as well. it really doesn't do much more than a typical federal load when it comes to the fringe range shooting it seems to be marketed towards.

compare the following and you decide: (32 degrees 2000 ft elevation)

bc sn load: 3" 1 1/8 oz BB 1635 fps at the muzzle 80 pellets

at 60 yards final velocity is 681 fps, 2.04" of penetration on ballistic gell

Federal ultra shok 3" 1 1/4 oz BB 90 pellets 1450 fps at the muzzle

at 60 yards final velocity is 638 fps, 1.87" of penetration on ballistic gell.

[Farley]

A few years ago I patterned a lot of different loads and B.C. patterned the best for me. Modified Choke in the SX3.